SAMUEL & MATILDA JONES

[vetsy]

I am trying to find information on Samuel and Matilda Jones.

Samuel was born c1824 and Matilda (maiden name uknown) c1821.

I have reference of them on the 1851 Census as living at 36 David St, Cardiff. At that time they had two (2) children Matilda 2 and Maria Arthur 8m.

I have another reference for them in the 1861 census as liviing in Bedminster. At this time their daughter Matilda does not appear with them so can only assume she was either in service or had died of some childhood disease.

I know that Maria had an illegitimate daughter Agnes Jones born in March 1868.

I can find nothing else on the Jones' until 1871 when Maria and Agnes are living with Maria's brother Thomas Arthur Jones (born c1862) living in the civil parish of Coity.

Maria went on to marry my g.g.grandfather John Manchip in Bristol in 1874. They do not appear again until 1891 in Bridgwater, Somerset.

I have considered the possibility that as Maria and Thomas both have a middle name of Arthur that perhaps this was their mother's maiden name. I don't know how comon it was for a girl to have a man's name back then.

If anyone has any information on this family such as when Samuel and Matilda died, what happened to Matilda Jnr or who Thomas married I would be most interested in hearing from you.

Thanks

Yvette

[Peter Goodey]

"I have considered the possibility that as Maria and Thomas both have a middle name of Arthur that perhaps this was their mother's maiden name"

I think you're probably spot on there.

This might be their marriage -

Marriages Sep 1847

Arthur Matilda Bedminster 11 91
Jones Samuel Bedminster 11 91

You'll be wanting that certificate.

But do you not have birth certificates for any of the children? One of those will confirm the mother's maiden name and confirm that the above marriage is the right one.

[Peter Goodey]

"who Thomas married "

You've got the census data, what was his wife's first name?

[jeeb]

I agree with Peter and you may also be interested in this baptism:-
Matilda d. of Thomas & Martha Arthur 10 Sept. 1820 Wesleyan, Newport, Monmouth.

Cheers, Jeremy

[Peter Goodey]

Martha Arthur?

A difficult name! I bet she didn't choose Martha as a name for one of her children:D

[jeeb]

Lol, but she was the wife of Thomas so she must have thought he had enough going for him to take on his name and then for their daughter Matilda to pass it on to her children too!
Incidently a marriage of Matilda Arthur is reg in 1849 at Shepton Mallet, not a great distance away from Bedminster. As Matilda Arthur is not likely to be a very common name, could be a possible relationship?
Jeremy.

[vetsy]

Unfortunately, Thomas was unmarried at the time of the census. I have found several Thomas Jones who could be my Thomas but have found it difficult to ascertain which one it might be.

[vetsy]

Thanks Jeremy, I've made a note on my records and will investigate it further.

[jeeb]

I cannot find Thomas Arthur Jones but he was born in Bristol 1852 not 1862 as you stated! Do you know when he died, married or perhaps emigrated?
1881 census:-
RG11/2453 Folio 109 Page13. 7 Hillgrove Street, Bedminster.
John Manchip, Head, 29, Carriagesmith, Brigwater Som.
Maria Manchip Wife 30, Cardiff Glam.
Henry Manchip Son 2 Reaminster
Mabel Manchip Dau. 11 mon. Reaminster
Agnes Manchip Dau 12 Bridgend S. Wales

With regards, Jeremy.

[Peter Goodey]

"Unfortunately, Thomas was unmarried at the time of the census. I have found several Thomas Jones who could be my Thomas but have found it difficult to ascertain which one it might be."

I'm getting lost here. You asked who Thomas married but you seem now to be saying that you don't know whether he married at all.

[Peter Goodey]

Back to the subject. Have you confirmed Matilda's maiden name from a birth certificate?

[jeeb]

Hi Peter,
The reason you are getting mixed up here is because it was Vetsy who asked who Thomas married. I, like you,have been trying to help her and as I cannot find any trace of Thomas Arthur Jones on any census after 1871, it is I asking the question of Vetsy, "Did Thomas die young or actually ever get married?"
Gets a bit complicated doesn't it?
Cheers, Jeremy (Jeeb)

[Peter Goodey]

"it is I asking the question of Vetsy"

Yes but your question wasn't visible when I posted a similar question. So we're both asking much the same thing.

"Gets a bit complicated doesn't it?"

Not really. And I wasn't really getting lost. It was only a form of words.

I am also asking whether she has a birth certificate to confirm Matilda's maiden name. This is a point I made several days ago to which she hasn't responded.

[jeeb]

Peter,
I think you may have thought I was questioning your ability to do research, I wasn't, I was merely stating as you mentioned, it gets complicated when 'threads' get crossed. It is difficult when someone asking for help does not give complete or accurate information, as in Vetsy's first thread when it gives Thomas as born about 1862 instead of 1852. This is most likely a typing error but it just proves that all threads should be throughally checked before posting. I do agree with you, it is also made difficult when a question is asked of the inquirer and then ignored or not answered sufficiently.
With regards to Thomas Arthur Jones, I cannot find him on any census after 1871. Can you? This is why I asked Vetsy what she knows about him.
No offence intended. Cheers Jeremy.

[Peter Goodey]

No offence taken, Jeremy :) Pax!

[vetsy]

Jeremy & Peter,

Thanks Jeremy for your 1881 census info. I could not find the Manchips anywhere for 1881 and it was beginning to drive me mad!!!

Incidently, I did find a Thomas Arthur Jones on the Welsh 1881 Census living in Llanstrisant with his wife Mary Jane (Birmingham) and children, Mary Jane and Louisa. I can't say for sure that it was my Thomas but the info seems to fit. This is why I was questioning who Thomas married. I don't know for sure that he married anybody but assume he did. Of course without obtaining a marriage certificate I can't say for certain and I am fully aware of the need to get these certificates.

Unfortunately they cost money and it's not always possible for me to "splurge" on things like this. I have a few already and will add to them when I can afford to.

I appreciate your input into these names and certainly don't want to cause any friction between other members.

Once again - thanks very much.

Vetsy