Registering a birth in UK

[margarita]

My husband & I were discussing the process of registering a birth in UK* - I've never had children & he can't remember registering his son's birth 40 years ago.

When registering a birth what evidence do you have that a birth actually took place? Does the registrar require paperwork from elsewhere e.g. hospital? When you register a death you have the certificate signed by the doctor – is there the equivalent for a birth?

The discussion about documentation arose because a British friend of ours living here in Greece has been required by his lawyer to prove that he only has two children (this is following on from his wife’s death.) He can provide birth certificates for his two sons but he has to prove he has no more children.
Apparently, Greeks have a legal document that shows all their relations and off-spring, similar to a family tree. Now wouldn’t that save a lot of searching.

* I appreciate that it may be different in Scotland from England & Wales but it's just general principles I was interested in.

[Jan1954]

Have a read of this direct.gov (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Registeringlifeevents/Birthandadoptionrecords/Registeringorchangingabirthrecord/DG_175608) page for the current arrangements. :smile5:

[Elwyn Soutter]

The discussion about documentation arose because a British friend of ours living here in Greece has been required by his lawyer to prove that he only has two children (this is following on from his wife’s death.) He can provide birth certificates for his two sons but he has to prove he has no more children.
Apparently, Greeks have a legal document that shows all their relations and off-spring, similar to a family tree.

Obviously we don't have a document similar to the Greek system, so I suspect what your friend will have to do is swear an affidavit in Greece stating that he only has 2 children. The problem must have come up before and perhaps the local British Consul may have some advice on how best to deal with it?

[margarita]

Have a read of this direct.gov (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Registeringlifeevents/Birthandadoptionrecords/Registeringorchangingabirthrecord/DG_175608) page for the current arrangements. :smile5:

Thanks Jan, I have looked at that. I feel that I am missing something really obvious - where is the proof that a baby has been born? What's to stop you wandering into the Register Office and registering a totally fictitious child?

Elwyn - thanks for your suggestion. I think the affidavit is the route he will have to go down. This arose because under Greek law you cannot disinherit your children.

[Jan1954]

What's to stop you wandering into the Register Office and registering a totally fictitious child?That thought had also occurred to me but, as I have not had to register any babes either, I was a bit bemused by it as well.

[susan-y]

In Ontario you get a form at the time of the child's birth to fill out and send to the Gov't. Or... now you can go online.. The Service Ontario website says that you need the foloowing information before registering the baby and it must be under 1 year of age......

To register your newborn baby you will need:
The child’s date of birth
The child’s first, middle (if applicable) and last names
The birth mother's maiden name
The name of the hospital or birthing centre where the birth took place (if applicable)
The name of the person who attended the birth (physician, midwife or other)
The weight of the child
The duration of pregnancy in weeks
You can only use this service for up to five children (quintuplets)
A valid method of payment (VISA, MasterCard, American Express or Interac® Online) if applying for a birth certificate

So...don't have sextuplets or you will have to register them the old fashioned way :) It also gives details on what to do if you used a surrogate, single parent, etc......

Sue

[Mutley]

There is a tongue in cheek (or perhaps a really sarcastic) article by the The Guardian Newspaper with advice to a certain person on how to register the birth of his child.
http://www.
guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2010/nov/08/ed-miliband-baby-registering-birth-of-child

The paragraph headed 'It's the day of your appointment at the register office' states that as well as some form of photographic ID,
You also need to take a discharge letter, which will be given to you by the hospital.

[Mutley]

The Citizens Advice Bureau (http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/relationships_e/relationships_birth_certificates_and_changing_your _name_e/birth_certificates.htm) gives quite a lot of really useful information for England
(includes a section on outside the UK).
There is also a drop down box at the top where you can choose N. Ireland, Scotland or Wales.

One sentence that surprised me was:

A married couple can also choose any surname for their child. It does not have to be the name of either of the parents.

I bet a lot of people don't know that!

[LittleMissP]

You can't register a fictitious child as essentially the Register Office already know (long before you show up) what babies have been born and thus who to expect. There is a form filled out either in the hospital or at home (depending on where the mother gives birth) which the mother is given a copy of but I think essentially is a record for the relevant authorities. I only did this process last year but for the life of me can't remember what the form is called or what the exact process is!

[Guy Etchells]

You can't register a fictitious child as essentially the Register Office already know (long before you show up) what babies have been born and thus who to expect. There is a form filled out either in the hospital or at home (depending on where the mother gives birth) which the mother is given a copy of but I think essentially is a record for the relevant authorities. I only did this process last year but for the life of me can't remember what the form is called or what the exact process is!

Except that it is perfectly possible to have a baby in a car, or out in the countryside or other place where no medical help is available and any such birth must by law be registered.

As to photographic proof of ID tough, if they insist on that now I would not bother registering a birth as I do not have any.

Cheers
Guy

[Mutley]

Except that it is perfectly possible to have a baby in a car, or out in the countryside or other place where no medical help is available and any such birth must by law be registered.

As to photographic proof of ID tough, if they insist on that now I would not bother registering a birth as I do not have any.

Cheers
Guy
Your BG avatar will not help you out on that one either but I bet the BBC News Archives may have something :smile5:

[MarkJ]

Except that it is perfectly possible to have a baby in a car, or out in the countryside or other place where no medical help is available and any such birth must by law be registered.

As to photographic proof of ID tough, if they insist on that now I would not bother registering a birth as I do not have any.

Cheers
Guy

That makes two of us Guy! I have never needed a passport and my driving licence accrued the various additional categories long before the photo version came into being.

Mark

PS - and I took my image off the forum ages ago to avoid scaring small children!

[LittleMissP]

Except that it is perfectly possible to have a baby in a car, or out in the countryside or other place where no medical help is available and any such birth must by law be registered.

This is true but Big Brother is still out there knowing what babies are expected as long as the mother has had any kind of antenatal care.

Paula

[Peter Goodey]

In the early days of civil registration, there were a few prosecutions of registrars for registering non-existent births.

http://www.british-jewry.org.uk/PPark.pdf

[RobinC]

I take it that a fine would be imposed if the birth of a child wasn't registered?

[Jan1954]

I take it that a fine would be imposed if the birth of a child wasn't registered?Yes. According to a General Register Office communication dated 27th May 2011 at:
http://www.
whatdotheyknow.com/request/what_is_the_maximum_penalty_for

In England &Wales, level 1 of the standard scale of fines applies to this offence. This means that the maximum fine would be £200.

[RobinC]

Yes. According to a General Register Office communication dated 27th May 2011 at:
http://www.
whatdotheyknow.com/request/what_is_the_maximum_penalty_for

In England &Wales, level 1 of the standard scale of fines applies to this offence. This means that the maximum fine would be £200.

I thought a fine might be the case! Woe behold the first person who goes to prison as an example in the future as it'll probably happen!

[Sue Mackay]

I'm having to exercise my memory here, as it was 30 years ago, but I am pretty sure I registered my son in hospital - admittedly I was an in-patient for 10 days following the birth. I certainly didn't go to the register office - I think I was sent the certificate through the post

[pennydog]

All three of mine were registered in hospital (23 -28 years ago). I was lucky that Friday was the day that the registrar attended and I had each one in the early hours of Friday morning. I was given a short birth cert at the time free of charge, but I do not remember being offered the long version, even at a cost.

[Elwyn Soutter]

I take it that a fine would be imposed if the birth of a child wasn't registered?

I think you would be daft not to register a birth these days because without a birth certificate the child wouldn’t qualify for any of the usual state benefits. Indeed a London Registrar once told me that they used to get lots of applications for late birth registration (often years after the child was born) right up until 1948 when Family Allowance (as it was then called) was first introduced. The threat of prosecution for non registration didn’t really bother people all that much, and had never led to full compliance. It was almost impossible to police anyway. However the prospect of not qualifying for Family Allowance concentrated minds wonderfully and thereafter there was very little evidence of non registration. Indeed the problem of fraudulent registration of a non-existent child became the more serious risk.

[Mutley]

I think the original 'Old Age Pension' was introduced in 1909 for those reaching 70 years old.

Their birth should have been registered in about 1839 and we know that there are many that we cannot find in those early years.
What happened if a person applied for a state pension but did not seem to have a birth registered and could not provide proof of age?

Would it have then been registered in 1909? :confused5:

[Elwyn Soutter]

For old age pension applications, if you couldn’t prove your age by a birth certificate you were asked for other evidence, eg a baptismal certificate. Some military records were also acceptable (as they would normally have your age – however accurate – somewhere on them). In Ireland (where birth certs only start in 1864) there was also a formal system for checking the 1851 and sometimes the 1841 censuses to see whether the age you claimed to be now matched that given then. Don’t know if they did that in GB too.

Originally the old age pension was means tested, and you had to be of “good character”, so these two requirements disqualified some applicants. In 1909 it was 5/- (25p) which was about a fifth of an average persons wage. About the same ratio as today.

[Peter Goodey]

Off at another tangent...

Anyone interested in their ancestors' old age pensions may want to note that applications were actually dealt with by local pension committees. Records, including decisions on individual cases, may be found in County Record Offices.

[Jan1954]

Off at another tangent...

Anyone interested in their ancestors' old age pensions may want to note that applications were actually dealt with by local pension committees. Records, including decisions on individual cases, may be found in County Record Offices.Thank you for that, Peter. It is an avenue that I had not considered following and should certainly help in tracking down an elusive great, great grandmother.

[Coromandel]

Anyone interested in their ancestors' old age pensions may want to note that applications were actually dealt with by local pension committees. Records, including decisions on individual cases, may be found in County Record Offices.

See this earlier thread (http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/showthread.php/69198-Old-Age-Pension-records) for some examples. Survival of records seems very patchy.