Help please

[drmike789]

I have a marriage certificate for my 2nd great grandfather. He was a shoemaker, as were others associated with the family. His father's profession is recorded as what looks like Goal Moler. Is there any name/term in shoemaking that would be anything like this?

Kind regards, Mike

[Prussian]

Mike,

Have you contacted http://www. cordwainers.org/history.aspx for advice?

Prussian
My gg grandfather was a master cordwainer and his younger brother a boot finisher

[Coromandel]

Hello Mike and welcome to the forum:)

One possibility that springs to mind just on the basis of the shape of the letters - but nothing to do with shoemaking! -
is Coal Meter. (You could perhaps post an image of the part of the certificate that shows the occupation, in case our handwriting experts can make anything of it.)

[drmike789]

Hi, Thanks for the replies. Unfortunately, it does not seem I can paste a copy into this message. I've tried a few times in different formats.

I checked the FAQs and I cannot see a Manage Attachments button.

[Coromandel]

I'm not sure that there is a way to attach images directly to posts, but you can upload them to another website (such as Photobucket: see the instructions here (http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/showthread.php/30819-How-to-use-Photobucket)) and then post a link on this thread.

[drmike789]

Good idea. Thanks.

http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq262/drmike789/Handwriting/ThomasReed1838JaneBuckham1832marriage2.jpg

[Jan1954]

Something Maker?

What was he recorded as in the censuses?

Also, welcome to Brit-Gen!

[drmike789]

I only recently got the marriage certificate and it is the first time I've had his name - Thomas Reed. His son Thomas Reed 1838 born London is my 2nd great grandfather. He's variously described as shoemaker, cordwainer, boot maker.

I've not yet been able to find Thomas's family before he married Jane Buckham in 1862. There is a TR who was a Deal Porter, others are tailors, ag labourers.

[drmike789]

Forgot to say, yes, Jan, it could well be maker.

And it was TR senior who was the Deal Porter, etc.

[Coromandel]

The first letter does look more like a 'G' than anything else, doesn't it? I haven't come up with any advance on 'Coal Meter' yet though. I did wonder if it might be something to do with a gaol (since gaol was often mis-spelled as goal) but no inspiration has struck about what the second word could be if the first was meant to be gaol. I also found an occupation of 'moter' in textile industries (a wool-moter removes motes from wool, for example) but couldn't make any sense of the first word. However much I squint at it, I can't make that first letter look like a 'W'.

Having failed to decipher the writing, I can only suggest an alternative way round the problem: if the marriage was in a church, you could try to track down the original parish register to see if the occupation is written more clearly there.

[Zen Rabbit]

Now here is a curious thing. My 4x Great grandfather William Stanton was codwainer/shoemaker and every record bar one records him as such (actually make that two the 1861 census has him as a carter but as he was 69 by then he could have retire from the shoe trade). That record is the 1851 census in which he is down as a Coal merchant. As (after a lot of research) I have come to the conclusion that no coal merchants of that name were in the town at that period I greatly suspect that is was an error by the original transcriber, possibly due to the decline of the term "cordwainer", so that it was mis-heard or mis-understood.

[drmike789]

Thanks for the helpful replies.

With so many possibilities, it does seem looking at the original is the best way forward. They were married in Alnwick Register Office. How would I go about accessing the record?

Would it help if I uploaded the full certificate so there are letters with which to compare the handwriting?

Regards, Mike

[Coromandel]

With so many possibilities, it does seem looking at the original is the best way forward. They were married in Alnwick Register Office. How would I go about accessing the record?

Hi Mike

Drat! Register Office marriage registers aren't usually accessible to the public: you would I think have to cough up another £10 to get a copy of the certificate from the local registrar. They don't usually supply photographic copies of the originals, unfortunately, so you still may not get to see what it said in the original register. It might be worth contacting the Alnwick Register Office first and explaining the situation and asking if there's any way they could check the occupation for you.

http://www.
northumberland.gov.uk/default.aspx?page=3480


Would it help if I uploaded the full certificate so there are letters with which to compare the handwriting?

I have a vague memory that we aren't supposed to post images of whole certificates because of copyright. But perhaps it would be OK to upload some of the rest of it. I am sure one of our moderators could say Yea or Nay.

[MarkJ]

As you say, a full image isn't permitted, but say a half which will help to compare the writing is fine

[Mutley]

I've tried to take a quick look for Thomas prior to his marriage.
I've found a possible (though there are quite a few with his name in London) in Church Street, Tower Hamlets
unfortunately, father was a labourer. Next door was a shoemaker, not that that helps. :no:

The point of this post is that looking further along the page there is a George and Edward Porter and their occupation looks very similar to that which you have posted. A four letter word beginning with 'G' followed by the initial of 'm' for the next word.
I still cannot figure out what it could be but tomorrow I will see if I can trace the Porter's to find out what their occupation was.

Unless another member can make it out.
1841: HO107/728, Book 8, Folio 9, Page 12
(records held by TNA, Crown copyright)

[AnnB]

The point of this post is that looking further along the page there is a George and Edward Porter and their occupation looks very similar to that which you have posted. A four letter word beginning with 'G' followed by the initial of 'm' for the next word.
I still cannot figure out what it could be but tomorrow I will see if I can trace the Porter's to find out what their occupation was.

Unless another member can make it out.
1841: HO107/728, Book 8, Folio 9, Page 12
(records held by TNA, Crown copyright)

Mutley, I think think the Porters' occupation reads "Gun m" followed by a J for Journeyman.

Best wishes
Ann

[Peter Goodey]

I have a vague memory that we aren't supposed to post images of whole certificates because of copyright.

If it's not permitted, it's not because of crown copyright which has been waived for BMD certificates (unless the subject is still alive)

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documents/information-management/copying-bmd-certificates.pdf

[drmike789]

Wow, thanks to everyone for the time you've taken and suggestions made. I've been offline a few days hence the delay in writing.

As you say, there's quite a few Thomases, so it makes it difficult to find the right one without more information. I'd not found the 1841 one that you did, Mutley, but there are a few others that fit the bill also. A gun manufacturer in the family would be interesting.

I contacted the GRO directly. Very helpful on the phone. They have asked someone to look at their copy and advise me if they can decipher the occupation. I'll let you know their response. (I decided against keep ordering copies until I got a good one. It might have still been illegible.)

[drmike789]

The GRO replied today:

"We have checked the entry, and the Rank or Profession of Father (Groom) appears to read Coal Meter."

Coromandel, your first suggestion appears to be right, although they do only say it appears to be coal meter. But well done.

I found this link on this site: http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/showthread.php/21550-Coal-Meter

Regards, Mike