HENRY MOSES-ROSA HART

[phillip]

I will place further data on the Henry Moses and Rosa Hart lines but would welcome confirmation of where the family were in the 1841 Census. I have access to the major family history site and have located the family in the 1851 census and Rosa as a widow in the 1861 census and later.
The 1851 Census has very poor recorded details on the family with only initial letters of the children of Henry and Rosa being recorded with their ages.
The 1851 Census ( Crown Copyright, TNA) h0107 1546 164 6 has the family at 104 Leman Street St Mary Whitechapel-
Henry Moses H M 57 Slop seller b Middx London; Rosa Moses wife 56 b Rosemary Lane; S Moses dau 28;E Moses dau 26;Taylor Moses son 19;M Moses dau 2?; P Moses dau 22 ? Maker;M Moses son 16;E Moses dau 12

The full names of the children are Sarah;Emma;Priscilla;Rhoda;Montague;Esther;Sylvest er; Matilda

Henry Moses died 17 Feb 1855 at 104 Leman Street of Bronchitis 1 mth. There are a range of records relating to Rosa ( daughter of Benjamin Hart clothesaleman who was in partnership with his son Lewis ( Louis) at 3 and 7 Hollywell Street until abt 1836 ( probably the year of his death). The mother of Rosa is unknown.

In the 1861 Census ( Crown Copyright, TNA) RG 9 272 29 -Rosa is a widow at 104 Leman Street : Rosa Moses H Widow 60 Clothier b London;Sarah Moses dau U 30 b London;Emma Adolphus dau M 28 b London;Priscilla Moses dau U 26;Rhoda Moses dau U 24; Montague Moses son U 23;Esther Moses dau U17

There is an excellent family history data base-World Connect Rootsweb which provides significant data on the Hart/Moses and related families.
Phillip

[Waitabit]

Piece:
719 -8/31- page 11

Allhallows London Wall
St Mary Axe, Allhallows London Wall, London
London

H Moses b 1795 ,Rosetta B.1795 + 8 children


Crown copywrite TNA

[Mutley]

Yet to find the Moses but Leman Street in 1841 did have some Harts. All born in County.
HART, John, age 30 1811
HART, Moss, age 20 1821
Nap, age 20 1821
Phoebe, age 50 1791
Bella, age 20 1821
Julia, age 20 1821
Sarah , age 15 1826
Caroline, age 14 1827
Sarah, age 13 1828
1841: HO107/716, Book 9, Folio 34, Page 12
(records held by TNA, Crown copyright)

[Waitabit]

Try H. Moses on FMP or "H.Mores" on Ancestry. next door are sarah H[ie]schell b.1795- E.Hymer b.1811 (females)& Jacob Levy b.1830 (male)

[phillip]

Many thanks to you both for searching the Henry Moses/Rosa Hart 1841 lines. The Ancestry reference under H. Mores ( typographical error) is the correct family. The Phoebe Hart family at 62 Leman St in 1841 are also my Hart line:
I will give the 1841 Census details for Henry Moses/Rosa Hart:
1841 St Mary Axe All Hallows London Wall Middlesex ( Crown Copyright,TNA) HO 107 749 8 31 11
H Moses 46 slop seller
Rosetta Moses 46
Sarah Moses 14
Emma Moses 17
Matilda Moses 14
Priscilla Moses 12
Roda Moses 8
Esther Moses 3
Silvester Moses 10
Montague Moses 6

This Moses/Hart line has later links through marriage to numerous Anglo Jewish families including later prominent ones such as the Gluckstein and Joseph and includes relationships to Nigella Lawson through her maternal line.

The Phoebe Hart nee Myers lines relate to Rosa Hart through her sibling John Hart who married Elizabeth Jacobs also through marriage. Phoebe being my 4x great grandmother and her mother Eve/Eva who married Jacob Myers is my 5x great grandmother. Phoebe's son Aaron married Ann Rebecca Crawcour and their daughter Amelia married Henry Chapman Hart son of John Hart/Elizabeth Jacobs.
Phillip

[cedar18]

Hi phillip, I have just joined this forum and am researching my Moses and Hart ancestry. Henry Moses and Rosa Hart were my GGG grandparents. Their son Montague and his wife Caroline Woolf had a daughter Theresa married to Ernest Stygall whose daughter Edna was my maternal grandmother. I have names and dates for the families back to Henry and Rosa but am missing some information and would really like to go back beyond Henry and Rosa if I can. It would be great if I could discover whether these families had Sephardic or Ashkenazi roots. I believe Rosa's father may have been Benjamin Hart and she may have had some siblings, one of whom was called either Lewis or Louis? I think that some of the Moses family may have used the anglicised names Morton and/or Moss during the early 1900's but I am not sure if this was officially recorded anywhere.
If you could shed some light on these lines or direct me to some resources on the Hart?Moses families I would be very grateful.
Ideally I need to find out which local London and or synagogue records to start looking at. I am planning to go up to London to view the records as soon as I have a starting point. The families appear to have lived in the Whitechappel Houndsditch and Aldgate part of the East end of London for some generations.
thanks in advance

[phillip]

Cedar
Good to hear from you. Two of my distant cousins on the Moses/Hart line have produced two excellent data bases on the families which appear on World Connect Roots site. I am not sure how much more additional data has been added since we all last shared data some 5 or more years ago. Rosa's father was Benjamin Hart my 4x great grandfather. There is a range of data to confirm his name and where he lived up to circa 1836 when it appears he died. I do not know the name of his wife my 4 x great grandmother but it may have been Elizabeth but I know nothing more about her. My Hart and other Anglo Jewish lines are all Ashkenazi. This is confirmed by a range of data including Synagogue records. I hold data on all of Benjamin's children so let me know what information you need.
Phillip

[phillip]

Cedar
Before you go to London to do research I do hold a range of documents from the Society of Genealogists Anglo Jewish collections in London which include letters and other documents relating to Sylvester and Montague Moses. I photo copied some of the documents several years ago but the quality was poor and difficult to read. They didn't add anything new to our existing knowledge but were useful primary sources.
My main interest is identifying Benjamin Hart's roots and who his wife was plus did he have any siblings.
Happy to share data with you.
Phillip

[phillip]

Cedar
Here is a very brief summary of the children of Benjamin Hart-
Rosa Hart 1794-1880 m Henry Moses
John Hart 1797 -1865 m Elizabeth Jacobs
Henry Hart 1800-1868 m Rosa Lyons
Michael Hart 1803-1861 m Francis Davis ( see American First Families - Stern Collection- for data on Michael and Francis including a family tree)
Lewis ( Louis) 1804 -1875 m Julia Levy
Morris Hart 1806-1876 unmarried
Nb There maybe an Elizabeth Hart who married a Cohen

See Cemetery Scribes site for the photographs plus data on the tombstones of John; Henry and Lewis
Phillip

[cedar18]

Phillip
Thank you, this is all excellent stuff. I can see from this and some of your previous posts that we do indeed share the same common Hart/Moses ancestry and you have obviously gathered a great deal of data. I didn't have any of the names or birth dates of Rosa's siblings so that immediately fills in some gaps for me. I will now collate all that I know enter this into the new family tree software I have just started using, and get a picture of what I then need, and then return with some questions. I too am very interested in identifying Benjamin Hart's roots, and also Rosa, in particular when and from where their families arrived in England. Do you know which synagogue the family was associated with?
Again, thank you for sharing your data.
cedar

[phillip]

Cedar
I will reply to your private message. In the meantime, I will also post further data on our mutual lines.
In response to your query about which Synagogue Benjamin Hart may have been associated with their are records on Synagogue Scribes site for some of the Hart marriages. I will post on these because they indicate the Synagogue for the marriage. It is possible that Benjamin Hart's records such as death and marriage may have been held in the Western Synagogue. Unfortunately these records were destroyed WW2 but Hyamson and Colyer Fergusson in their records did include references ( not all the time) to Synagogues. I have looked for Benjamin but could not locate him in the Anglo Jewish collections held by the Society of Genealogists in London.
Rosa was born Rosemary Lane and there is a census record of this.
I do not know where either of my Hart lines originated- my 2 Hart lines married into each other but I do know that the Jacobs who relate to the Benjamin Hart line through marriage came from Germany- probably West Prussia. The Crawcour line who married into the Henry Hart line came from Cracow Poland hence the name derivation.
My thinking on the Harts is that they are probably Dutch/German Jews but I have no firm evidence as yet.
Phillip

[phillip]

Cedar
If you look on the JewishGen site under UK Data bases for Benjamin Hart, Lewis Hart, John Hart, Henry Hart and the other siblings you will see - Jewish Traders/Business in London 1769-1839 and London Jews pre 1850 a range of records. In particular, Benjamin Hart glover,tailor and clothes salesman 7 Holywell St Strand -Underhill 1822; Sun Fire Records 1830s and 3 and 7 Holywell St clothes salesman -Pigot 1836. Lewis Hart,one of Benjamin's sons appears in partnership with his father at 3 and 7 Holywell ( Hollywell) St in the 1830s and later on his own at 7 Hollywell St between 1846-1849.
It is likely that there are other references to Benjamin in Rosemary Lane but it is important to recognise that there were other Hart in the same business as hatters, clothiers in the same area and I have yet to untangle all the names.
More to follow.
Phillip

[phillip]

Cedar
Here is the Great Synagogue Marriage for John Hart and Elizabeth Jacobs - see Synagogue Scribes GSM182/45- 26 August 1818
John Hart - Hebrew name Jacob- father's Hebrew name Jacob; Eliazbeth Jacobs -Hebrew name Beila daughter of Privileged Member- father's Hebrew name Tsevi Hirsh Jacobs

Synagogue Scribes don't have any other records for Benjamin's children's marriages which may suggest marriages at the Western Synagogue. The Hart/Crawcour/Jacobs/Myers are all Ashkenazi families. There are no records in Bevis Marks to indicate Sephardi roots and all the Synagogue records for the families are in the Hambro/Great Synagogue and the GRO Marriages are also Ashkenazi.
Phillip

[phillip]

The following data relates to Rachel Isaacs and her marriage to David Moses 9 June 1847- see Synagogue Scribes GSMa 068/61 - Rachel Isaacs - father's Hebrew name Shmuel- David Moses - father's Hebrew name - Benjamin Zeev. Hyamson -Anglo Jewish Collection held by the Society of Genealogists, London has a family tree for Sylvester Moses son of Rosa Hart and Henry Moses which includes data on Sylvester's marriages among other details.
Phillip

[phillip]

Cedar
This message is in response to your private e mail regarding data from " The Jewish Victorian. Genealogical Information from the Jewish Newspapers 1861-70 vol transcribed and edited by Doreen Berger, 2004 Pub Robert Boyd and her 2nd vol 1871-80, 1999 Pub Robert Boyd. There are numbers of records in Berger which relate to our mutual Hart/Moses lines including: The death of Michael Hart in America brother of Rosa Moses nee Hart; Marriage of Caroline Woolf to Montague Moses in 1864; Death of John Hart my 3x great grandfather and brother of Rosa;references to E Eberson brother in law of Rosa; H Barnett brother in law of Rosa; Lewis/Louis Hart;Sylvester Moses and many others.
There are the earlier records in the Jewish Chronicle from 1841 online but require payment as well as a range of records in the British Newspaper Archives 1800-1900 and The Times. World Connect; Ancestry Com; Genesreunited and other sources also contain family trees on the lines. In summary, there is a lot of data on the respective lines.
I am already aware of your specific line including Stygall and have seen census data on the families.
Let me know if you require specific look ups or further information. The data pre- 1800s is often difficult to locate but not impossible.
Phillip

[phillip]

Data on Benjamin Hart of Holywell Street appears in the London Land Tax Records 1692-1932 - Benjamin Hart Holywell Street 1809-1815 Sums assessed £2 10s. There is also reference to a Benjamin Hart of Holywell Lane 1818 Sum assessed 15s.
A later record relates to Henry Moses and Rosa Moses in 1857 Leman Street. The name Henry has been crossed out and Rosa substituted Sum assessed £1 12s 6d. There maybe earlier records for Benjamin Hart but without knowing his precise location it is difficult to identify him accurately based on the limited amount of data in the records.
Phillip

[phillip]

Currently there are no family trees on line which indicate whether or not Henry Moses had any siblings or near relatives. However, there maybe one potential connection - in the 1841 Census see #5 of this current thread under the household of Henry and Rosetta Moses ( HO 107 749 8 31 11- Crown Copyright,TNA) there appear: Solomon Moses 38 Mudhawk b in county;Maria Moses 14 b in county;Rachell Moses 12 b in county; Therese Moses 10 b in county;E Moses 35 b in county; J? Joshua 26 clerk Foreign; F Budd ( female) 26 b in county.
This Moses line may or may not be related to Henry Moses. I am unsure as to what occupation a Mudhawk was but am aware of the 'mud larks'. I cannot locate Samuel Moses post 1841 but have not looked in detail. It is possible from the census data that he may be a widower given no wife is listed and the age of the children may indicate they are his.
Phillip