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sezzle
02-04-2012, 11:10 AM
This is a bit of a family mystery/secret

It seems after my great granddad was KIA, my great gran had another child,
Alls that is known is that she went away for a few months and then came back and her sister ended up with a new baby.

For the time i would have thought the name was quite unusal, she was called Dhama (unsure of spelling)

This would have been after 1941 when my great grandad passed away.

I have my great grans name, maiden name and her sisters name (not her married name)

Do you think this would have been a legal adoption or a case where her sister took the baby on?

I cant locate the child on the census so i thought maybe i had the name wrong but after double and tripple checking the older generation said it was def correct

maesglas/ssclub
02-04-2012, 11:21 AM
Hi sezzle
If you want members to help you I think you need to put a bit more information about the people involved, names, ages, abode, anything that would help.
Robert

Peter Goodey
02-04-2012, 11:30 AM
If it was after 1941, why are you looking for census records?

Search the GRO indexes for a birth that corresponds to the information that you have.

No names, no pack drill if the person's still alive.

sezzle
02-04-2012, 11:33 AM
also the child passed away quite young (probably why shes not on a census)

Peter Goodey
02-04-2012, 11:44 AM
What post-1941 census is it that you have access to?

Colin Rowledge
02-04-2012, 1:54 PM
What post-1941 census is it that you have access to?

Not to cause you grief, Peter, but my own father - now deceased - discovered that he was illegitimate. This fact became known to him in 1950. He therefore knew that information on census record since his birth [1919] would be incorrect, so he kept detailed notes about what he entered on census records since 1950 so that future generations of his family would know the truth.

Those notes I have and will pass on to my daughter so that if and when she has a child accuracy within the family will be ensured.

Colin

sezzle
03-04-2012, 10:18 AM
Names of original mother: Nancy Blackburne nee Simpson
Name of the sister: Lillian Simpson (she was married but dont know her married name)
The childs name (that the family knows her as) was Darma (Dhama? ) i dont know if this was the name on her birth record, but its unlikely as i cant find a Darma anything in that time period.
I only know it was after 1941 as this child was illigitimate and Nancys husband (my great grandad) was killed in action in the March.
As i said the story is that she was putting weight on and she went away with her sister for a bit and came back slim but her sister had a new baby

thats all i have to go on, thanks x

sezzle
03-04-2012, 10:21 AM
What post-1941 census is it that you have access to?

i dont know where my head was at, i meant birth records, anscestry throws census results up so i guess i had census in my head lol

Peter Goodey
03-04-2012, 11:52 AM
I think you've got find out the sister's married name.

pennydog
03-04-2012, 1:10 PM
To help with a time factor and a location

Nancy Simpson married Michael V Blackburne Sept qtr 1929 Manchester North 8d 1557.

Sezzle,
Do you know the names of Nancy and Lillian's parents?

Colin Rowledge
03-04-2012, 1:34 PM
To help with a time factor and a location

Nancy Simpson married Michael V Blackburne Sept qtr 1929 Manchester North 8d 1557.

Sezzle,
Do you know the names of Nancy and Lillian's parents?

Not sure whether this will help or hinder, but in Manchester North there are 2 possible marriages for Lillian:

1933 - Oct-Dec. - vol 8d Page 944 - spouse John Gibbons

1935 - Jul-Sep. - vol 8d Page 1591 - spouse Joseph Flynn

Peter Goodey
03-04-2012, 2:33 PM
No names no pack drill

1. Find out the sister's married name. This is a straightforward family history job. If you don't know how to do it, please ask.

2. Search for the death of a child where the circumstances fit what you know.

3. Starting from the death, work backwards to the birth.

Colin Rowledge
03-04-2012, 3:46 PM
Sorry folks, but you are getting dangerously close to violating the Adoption rules of the forum. Please be careful about the details you give.

Sorry about that

Colin

sezzle
04-04-2012, 10:48 AM
Sorry folks, but you are getting dangerously close to violating the Adoption rules of the forum. Please be careful about the details you give.

Sorry, im trying to find the Adoption rules so i can see what i can and cant put, can you point me to them.

As for the parents, nope i have no idea, i have an approximate year of birth for Lillian but thats if its the right Lillian at all :(
I would ask family but they say "oh i'll give xxx a ring and see" but then they forget and i get moaned at for mithering

maybe i'll search out the married Lillian Simpsons posted above and see if they throw anything up

thanks all, didnt want to get anyone into trouble x

Sue Mackay
04-04-2012, 11:22 AM
Sorry, im trying to find the Adoption rules so i can see what i can and cant put, can you point me to them.



The Terms of Service (http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/announcement.php?f=402) of British-Genealogy prohibit posting details of living people. In addition the Adoption Forum (http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/563-Adoption-Pre-1911) stipulates that adoption queries post 1911 will not be accepted. A recent poster on this General Queries Forum asked permission to pose a general question about more recent adoption procedure, but this should not be taken as permission to post specific adoption queries here. However, I think Peter has given you some very good pointers as to how you should proceed. Failing that, do read some of the 'stickies' at the top of the Adoption Forum.

sezzle
04-04-2012, 2:10 PM
The Terms of Service (http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/announcement.php?f=402) of British-Genealogy prohibit posting details of living people. In addition the Adoption Forum (http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/563-Adoption-Pre-1911) stipulates that adoption queries post 1911 will not be accepted. A recent poster on this General Queries Forum asked permission to pose a general question about more recent adoption procedure, but this should not be taken as permission to post specific adoption queries here. However, I think Peter has given you some very good pointers as to how you should proceed. Failing that, do read some of the 'stickies' at the top of the Adoption Forum.

ah i thought with the child and her parents being deceased (child died as a baby) that it may have been ok? none of the details posted are of living people
i didnt realise there was an actual adoption forum (still quite new), also i didnt actually ask for so much information i asked if it was likely it would have been a legal adoption or a case of her sister saying she was the birth mother, just the thread kind of ran away with itself.

Thanks

Sue Mackay
04-04-2012, 3:21 PM
also i didnt actually ask for so much information i asked if it was likely it would have been a legal adoption or a case of her sister saying she was the birth mother, just the thread kind of ran away with itself.


We realise that sezzle, which is why the warning post began "Sorry, folks", ie it was addressed to those who in their enthusiasm to help might be in danger of posting information about living people. Thank you for confirming that all those involved in this case are deceased.

sezzle
10-04-2012, 10:39 PM
Hi again everyone,
Just thought i would update and say thanks to you all.
I found the childs death record (and grave), but theres no actual birth record for her that i can find for her name or with either of the sisters as mothers:sosp:

sezzle
18-04-2012, 2:35 PM
I posted a few weeks ago about a child who was adopted by my great aunt but who was believed to be the illigitimate child of my great gran.

I have found her death record which gave me the birth year (1945), but there is no birth record
I have found her buriel record (shes with my great great grandad) and found the grave but theres no stone on the grave :(

im not sure now how to look for her birth record, and im not sure what i can put on this thread namewise (none of them are living, the child died when she was 3)
My great Aunt adopted another child but he died (in adulthood) so i havent got anyone to ask :(

any suggestions?

jac65
18-04-2012, 10:52 PM
Hi

Have you checked births in 1944? A child dying in 1948 age 3 could be born in 1944 depending upon their birthday and the date of death.

Andy

Jan1954
19-04-2012, 6:24 AM
As there was a fair bit of information in sezzle's original thread which was referred to, I have merged the two together. That way, all the information stays in the same place and people will not then duplicate research.

Thank you for confirming that all parties are no longer with us, sezzle.

However, as has been said, we are getting close to people who could still be living, so please think twice before posting any recent details.

Thank you.

sezzle
19-04-2012, 8:06 AM
sorry yes ive checked borth records, her name wasnt Darma as originally thought it was Delma L Gibbons (all the Gibbons family are deceased)
I went through birth records for 1944-1946 as sometimes the abt age can be out for Delmas but none seem to fit.
Im guessing Lillian changed Delmas original name,
Some of the records for that time dont have mothers maiden names showing so its hard since not all do, and we dont know where Nancy and Lillian disapeared too for the time when the baby was born, its just known that she went away and Lillian came back with Delma and Nancy came back with a waistline lol

eta: i dont know if Nancy would have put the child in her fathers name, and we dont know that either (sigh)

Peter Goodey
19-04-2012, 10:00 AM
Too many assumptions. If you think the child was adopted, look for an adoption certificate. A copy of the GRO adoption index can be seen at Manchester City Library.

sezzle
20-04-2012, 12:07 PM
Did they keep records for adoptions back then?
i shall venture to the library and see what i can come up with

thanking you muchly

Peter Goodey
20-04-2012, 12:49 PM
Did they keep records for adoptions back then?

Yes


i shall venture to the library and see what i can come up with

Well done.

Also you said that you found the child's death but have you got the death certificate? If not, how can you be sure that it's the right child? Do you know what her middle name was?

sezzle
20-04-2012, 11:13 PM
my gran knew what cemetery she was buried in so i searched the buriel records online and found her buried with her grandad, the buriel record had her middle name in and there was only one on ancestry :)