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Patchwork Cat
28-02-2012, 6:17 PM
Can anyone tell me if there is a website where one can find past landlords of pubs and inns? Family lore says that my GGrandfather was landlord of the Old Nags Head and on the 1911 Census his residence is 7 Lloyd St, Hulm, Manchester, which is just about the where the pub is. I know he had run two other pubs in Manchester as one, Bees Retailer Pub in Irwell Street is stated on the 1901 Census, and I have a photo of him on the steps of the Brown Mare, which I believe was around Byrom Street. I'm not sure the latter two are not one and the same, so wondered whether there is somewhere I can go and verify he actual did run these premises and in what years. Any guidance would be much appreciated.

Mona
28-02-2012, 6:54 PM
You could check Manchester directories on the site historicaldirectories.org. They list Public Houses in the trades section. For example in the 1903 Slater's they have Old Nag's Head, George Metcalfe, Lloyd st and Jackson.s Row.

Patchwork Cat
28-02-2012, 7:38 PM
Thanks Mona. I had a quick look but they don't have directories for 1901 and 1911, so that I can confirm the truth of the stories. Thanks for the link though, as this site will prove useful in the future I'm sure.

RonOne
28-02-2012, 7:40 PM
Slater's Manchester, Salford & Suburban Directory, 1911. [Part 3: Trades, Ecclesiastical, etc.] (Page 1979)
Old Nag's Head, Frederick Johnsen, Lloyd st. and 19 Jackson's row.

Slater's Manchester, Salford & Suburban Directory, 1909. [Part 3: Trades & Official Directories, etc.] (Page 1754)
Old Nag's Head, Frederick Johnsen, Lloyd st. and 19 Jackson's row.

The Old Nag's Head, 19 Jackson's Row is still there.

Coromandel
28-02-2012, 7:41 PM
Manchester Petty Sessions records held at "Greater Manchester County Record Office with Manchester Archives", include (among others)

'Registers of Beer, Wine, Spirits, Liquer [sic] and Sweet Retailers' 1875-1909
'Registers of Licensed Premises 1900-1903'
'Register of Licensed Victuallers 1888-1909'
'Licensing Registers 1889-1960s'

according to this catalogue entry (http://www.dswebhosting.info/Manchester/dserve.exe?&dsqIni=Dserve.ini&dsqApp=Site11&dsqCmd=show.tcl&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqPos=2&dsqSearch=%28%28text%29=%27victuallers%27%29).

Coromandel
28-02-2012, 7:56 PM
I know he had run two other pubs in Manchester as one, Bees Retailer Pub in Irwell Street is stated on the 1901 Census

I'm not able to look at the census images right now, Patchwork Cat, but I wonder if it might be 'Beer Retailer' . Is it written in the address column or the occupation column?

Patchwork Cat
28-02-2012, 8:15 PM
Thanks Ron. Well that confirms he wasn't at the Nags Head, even though he was in Lloyd Street. One myth sorted! However in the 1901 Census William Hurst is living at 5 Irwell Street, in the St Johns district, and is listed as a Beer Retailer Pub. I presume the pub in question is actually at that address, as a sister of my grandmother is also listed as barmaid at home. At some point he was running a pub called the Brown Mare, of which I have a photo of him standing on the steps with my grandmother, not as a visitor but very much proprietorial.

Patchwork Cat
28-02-2012, 8:17 PM
Sorry I mis-typed the message. I have a copy of the Census and the entry says Beer Retailer Pub. Shouldn't try typing on laptop whilst curled up on sofa!!

Patchwork Cat
28-02-2012, 8:19 PM
Thanks for this, that will be a help. Another item on the list for taking a visit back to Manchester.

RonOne
28-02-2012, 8:23 PM
Not that it helps much:

Slater's Manchester, Salford & Suburban Directory, 1903. [Part 1: Topography & Street Directory] (Page 293)
Irwell Street
5 Hurst William, beer retailer

Patchwork Cat
29-02-2012, 9:40 AM
Not that it helps much:

Slater's Manchester, Salford & Suburban Directory, 1903. [Part 1: Topography & Street Directory] (Page 293)
Irwell Street
5 Hurst William, beer retailer

Thanks Ron. At least it shows he stayed around Irwell St for at least 3 years, but still can't find the name of the pub/inn in question. I had a look through the Manchester archive photos for the area, but didn't find anything, so will have to continue looking.

Mona
29-02-2012, 1:43 PM
I have an ancestor who was listed as a beer retailer. In Manchester directories of the 1850s he is shown as beer retailer in one and beer house in another.
Under the 1830 Beer Act any householder who paid rates could apply, with a payment of two guineas, to sell beer or cider in his home and even brew his own on his premises. They were not allowed to sell spirits. Later some became pubs but a few beer houses remained until the late 19th early 20th century.

Patchwork Cat
29-02-2012, 5:57 PM
I have an ancestor who was listed as a beer retailer. In Manchester directories of the 1850s he is shown as beer retailer in one and beer house in another.
Under the 1830 Beer Act any householder who paid rates could apply, with a payment of two guineas, to sell beer or cider in his home and even brew his own on his premises. They were not allowed to sell spirits. Later some became pubs but a few beer houses remained until the late 19th early 20th century.

Thank you Mona, that could well be the case then. I didn't know this historical fact, and is most interesting. This ancestor of mine seems to have been quite the entrepeneur with various 'career' changes along the way. My gran was the youngest of his 6 children, and I know they had a good standard of living by the time she married, so he must have done all right out of his various ventures. Thanks again.

RonOne
29-02-2012, 8:11 PM
Family lore says that my GGrandfather was landlord of the Old Nags Head and on the 1911 Census his residence is 7 Lloyd St, Hulm, Manchester, which is just about the where the pub is.

There are few Lloyd Streets in Manchester. The Lloyd Street (Old Nag's Head) is Central Manchester (Current postcode M2 5WD).

If the 1911 census address is Hulme? Then it's a different Lloyd Street. Lloyd Street, Hulme no longer exists it was located just SouthEast of St George's Church, Hulme. It's now part of the junction of the A56 and A57 (Current postcode M15 4JA)

(Enter the postcodes into Google maps to get the approximate locations)

RonOne
29-02-2012, 8:53 PM
Slater's Manchester, Salford & Suburban Directory, 1909. [Part 1: Topography & Street Directory] (Page 363)
Lloyd Street, Hulme
East side.
7 Hurst William, beer retailer

http://www.
historicaldirectories.org/hd/PAGEVIEWER.ASP?fn=0000b7cq.tif&dn=MAN17011Atif

RonOne
29-02-2012, 8:59 PM
At least it shows he stayed around Irwell St for at least 3 years

Bear in mind the directories had to be compiled sometime before publication.

Patchwork Cat
01-03-2012, 10:39 AM
Thanks everyone, you have all been most helpful and helped me on my way to knowing my ancestor a little better.