Harcourt Family

[ElizabethLinnHo]

Looking for contact about a George Harcourt b 1802 in Armagh, Northern Ireland who married a Jane Walsh who was born in 1805 in RichHill Armagh, in Richhill about 1836. Their first child, George was born in 1837 and they also had Mary, Anna, John (my g grandfather), Elizabath and Jane Gibson. The family emigrated to Canada in 1863.
We also know that George had at least one sister who married a Barret and had a daughter, Mary Ann Barrett who married a John Fullerton.

The Harcourt family also had connections to the Poyntz family and the Usher family.

The Walsh family had three daughters.

I would be interested in anyone who might have information on their Irish history.

[arthurk]

Hi

My great grandmother was Eliza Jane Harcourt from Co. Armagh, born about 1852 to William Harcourt (b.1814) and Jane Gibson (b.1821). William was a publican and spirit dealer in Tandragee, but whereas Eliza Jane was baptised in Tandragee (parish of Ballymore), most family burials seem to have been in Mullavilly. This is much closer to their earlier residence - Ballyworkan in the parish of Portadown (earlier Drumcree). William's father was John Harcourt, and Jane's father was Jeremiah Gibson.

I can see that this doesn't obviously connect with your family, and in particular I don't seem to have come across a George. However, I think it's highly likely that all the Harcourt families in that area do connect somewhere. There are a few more details of my line on my website - click on my name to the left of this mesage for a link. I also have a bit more information that isn't online, but from memory I don't think there's anything that mentions your people.

Somewhere I have found mention of a George Harcourt is in "HARCURIA - A History of the Family of Harcourt", a large typescript volume privately published in about 1930 by W. Harcourt-Bath (aka W.H. Bath). There are copies in a few reference libraries in England, but I've no idea if any made it to Canada - although it is claimed that Richard Harcourt, a former Canadian cabinet minister, is connected to the Co. Armagh family. Anyway, according to this volume, George seems to be a name associated with the Harcourts of Jerrett's Pass, Newry, some of whom later went to Clones, Co. Monaghan. It seems that they were descended from the Harcourts of Four Mile House, Donaghmore. Unfortunately many of the families are listed in outline only and a lot of children are mentioned but not named, so I can't positively identify your family, let alone my own.

Anyway, if any of this rings bells with you I'd be very interested in sharing information.

Arthur

[Robin J.BELL]

Hello from Melbourne Australia.

I have a George Harcourt, b around 1830 in Warrenpoint, near Newry (which is partially located in Co. Armagh). He died in Port Hope Ontario, Canada on 9 Nov.1910. He is the son of Joseph Harcourt (b.1 May 1792, died CANADA) and Isabella MILLAR.
The Harcourt's in Ireland apparently descend from a Richard Harcourt, born abt 1830 or so who fought with William of Orange in Ireland in 1688 (Derry) and 1699 (Boyne).

If you want more history I will email you an image of some pages of the Book 'Harcuria'. Also search the Book by Rev. Cowan regarding the History of Donaghmore Parish north of Newry near Poynt Pass. As I write this my external HDD has just crashed so I can't give you any more at present. I suggest you email me. Robin BELL (rjb261858 at gmail). Cheers for now.

[arthurk]

Hi Robin

Welcome to Brit-Gen - the more the merrier!

I've been doing a bit more on my Harcourts recently, but it's turned out to be more about consolidating later generations than taking things further back. So my earliest ones are still in Ballyworkan; it looks as though there may have been some marriages in Portadown or Drumcree, but I'm still waiting for certificates for these, and I also know of burials in Mullavilly. Most of the other Ballyworkan records seem to relate to a James Harcourt (also buried in Mullavilly), two of whose daughters seem to have kept the Ballyworkan farm going into the 20th century. However, I have yet to establish a definite connection to that family.

From the way you wrote, I'm guessing that you don't know of a link to my family - and I still haven't found a George. Because of the dates involved, my main problem at present seems to be a lack of access to parish registers - though I suppose I should count myself fortunate that with mine being Church of Ireland there are at least some of those records available somewhere.

Incidentally, I also have a copy of the Ireland section of Harcuria - but still haven't connected to anyone in it.

Arthur

[Robin J.BELL]

Hi Arthur,
Thanks for your welcome. I have been researching Harcourts in NIR fir over 10 years. I descend from a Richard, son of Richard who are mentioned in another book called "AN ANCIENT IRISH PARISH - PAST AND PRESENT - BEING - THE PARISH OF DONAGHMORE, COUNTY DOWN BY [Rev.] J. DAVISON COWAN, LL.D. (T.C.D.) Look for file ancientirishpari00cowarich.pdf on a web search otherwise let me send it to you (rjb261858 at gmail). This book pre-dates Harcuria and is referred to in it. I have been
checking through the Irish Harcourt's pages in Harcuria over the last few weeks and have a seriously marked-up set of those pages which I can email to you. One page I haven't got is the one with a Branch on it for the Harcourt's of Co.Armagh so I'm attempting to create my version of that lineage. I have finished a draft mark-up of an 1870 Chart received from a USA source entitled "Genealogical Chart of a Branch of The Harcourt Family" which is specific to the Irish Harcourts. I can send you that also.
These items I refer have been done in jpeg format. .................................. Robin.

[arthurk]

Hi Robin

Good to hear from you again, and thanks for the various offers - I'll be in touch by private email in the next day or two.

In case it helps anyone else, the History of Donaghmore book which Robin mentions is easily found, but when I viewed it online I couldn't find the Harcourt references by searching. However, there's an index at the back, and it's easy then to go straight to the pages you want.

Arthur

[Robin J.BELL]

Hi Arturk,
I use Adobe Reader X for OFFLINE searching of pdf files.
Hi also to Linn,
I am trying to find the descendants of a Richard Harcourt who, according to Billy Harcourt (b.1934 in Poyntzpass, leased land in Richhill (part the Brownlow Estate, Co.Armagh) in 1713. This probably makes this Richard the first Harcourt settler in Ireland. I guess he was born around 1660-70 in England and fought with the fusiliers under William of Orange at Derry and the Boyne in 1688-9.
Fortunately their are a lot of Brownlow Estate Papers in PRONI (see craigavonhistoricalsociety.org.uk/rev/follisbrownlow.html for an excellent summary). Now all we need is a very kind favour from someone at 'ground zero' ie living in Ireland, to do some checking up for us).
Any volunteers please?
Cheerio from a cold and wintry Melbourne downunder at the bottom of the Australian mainland...... Robin

[arthurk]

On this occasion I decided to stick with reading just a few pages online, as I'm currently having to be a bit careful with bandwidth, but otherwise downloading the pdf would have been my method of choice.

As for Richhill, I recently obtained copies of the marriages of Letitia (1848, Kilmore) and Ann (1849, Richhill) Harcourt, who both gave their father as John Harcourt, farmer. I'm guessing that they were sisters, and presumably might be connected to Richard in some way. The only other thing I know is that I can't see a connection to my family at present.

Among the many articles on the Craigavon Historical Society site, I found one on early settlers in Lurgan, one of whom was a John Harker. This reminded me that one of the Ballyworkan records (can't remember now if it was Griffiths, tithes or freeholders) listed someone who was almost certainly in my family as Harker rather than Harcourt. I thought this was simply a mistake due to pronunciation, but now I'm beginning to wonder: were mine really called Harker, and the name was assimilated to the more common Harcourt? Any thoughts on this would be welcome, before I have an identity crisis!

Arthur

[ElizabethLinnHo]

Hi to both Rob and Arthur,

Wanted to get in on the searches for the connections between Harcourts in Northern Ireland and descendants in Canada. Rob you gave me a wonderful start with your descendant chart of Joseph Harcourt 1792 - 1887 (in Canada). His son George b 1829 Warrenpoint, Co. Down Ireland married a Frances Morton in Port Hope, Canada. It doesn't seem a coincidence that this Frances was from a family that had married into my branch of the Harcourt family, that my grandmother was a first cousin to Stanley Macklin who married Vergie Mortan and that both familes lived in Warkworth, Ontario for a time.

So I have been trying to find the link in Ireland bewteen this Joseph Harcourt and the family that my George Harcourt came from. My George Harcourt, 2nd great grandfather, came from Richhill, Armagh Co. and was born in 1902. We do not know the names of his parents. He married a Jane Walsh from an adjoining farm and they had 7 children. My great grandfather was John Harcourt b 1841 in Ireland. The first two children George b 1837 and Mary b 1838 died in 1863 before the family emigrated. Anna b 1839, John b 1841, Elizabeth b 1844, Jane Gibson b 1844, and William b 1845 all came to Canada on the 'Columbia' in 1863. William died just after they arrived but the other 4 children lived long lives. It is interesting that the Gibson name was also passed on to Jane.

If anyone can suggest a way to find the link between these two family it would be wonderful.

Linn

[ElizabethLinnHo]

Hi Arthur,

I don't know if this will help but my great grandfather, John Harcourt 1841's sister was named Jane Gibson Harcourt. and when I have traced the Joseph Harcourt family who came out to Canada before ours I find the name John Gibson Harcourt given to one of the later generations. Do you suppose that they both refer to your Jane Gibson 1821 and father Jeremiah. If so, I would love the history the family of William Horning to see if I can fit the George Horning b 1802 in to your family and also to the one of Joseph Harcourt. What do you think?

Linn
email gilesdl AT kwic DOT com

[arthurk]

Hi Linn

It's an interesting idea, but as my Harcourt-Gibson marriage wasn't until 1848, it seems rather unlikely that Jane Harcourt born in 1844 would be given the middle name Gibson on that basis.

I'm now coming to see that there were far more Harcourt families in that area than I'd imagined (thanks, Rob) - but my earlier research suggests that there may have been even more Gibsons. Consequently it's by no means impossible that there would have been an earlier Harcourt-Gibson marriage which gave rise to the use of Gibson as a middle name. Or perhaps the Gibsons were somewhere in Jane Walsh's ancestry?

You also wrote:

If so, I would love the history the family of William Horning...
Am I missing something? That name's new to me, so was this a question for Rob or someone else?

Arthur

[ElizabethLinnHo]

Hi,

Sorry, it should be Joseph Harcourt b 1792 Donaghmore D, Ireland and died 1843 Canada who emigrated with family about 1832 and George Harcourt b 1802 near Richhill Armagh Co. Ireland that I'm trying to connect. Any suggestons where to start - birth Certificates? or places I could contact. Sorry that the Gibson connection can't be useful.

Linn

[arthurk]

I don't seem to have anything on either a George or a Joseph, so I think it's over to Rob on that one.

As for where to look for records: there aren't any birth certificates as early as that, and the best source of information is likely to be church records (where these have survived) - and precious few of those are available outside PRONI. The PRONI website (http://www.proni.gov.uk/) is a major source of information, and the online content is steadily expanding. From the right hand menu, have a look at Freeholders Records and Will Calendars, though I think any document images may be a bit late for your purposes. The left hand menu has useful sections on Family History, and on the Records held by PRONI - there's a useful page on Online Guides and Indexes (http://www.proni.gov.uk/index/research_and_records_held/catalogues_guides_indexes_and_leaflets/online_guides_and_indexes.htm) whch includes a downloadable list of church registers.

Over the years I've collected a number of website links for Co. Armagh and surrounding areas, and many of these include useful transcriptions. Try googling for any or all of the following:
Ulster Ancestry
Jean McCarthy's Genealogy website
Newry, Donaghmore, Loughbrickland, & Banbridge Genealogy Site
Pat Connors Genealogy
Lurgan Ancestry
Craigavon Historical Society
Poyntzpass & District Local History Society
Portadown Photos & History
Raymond's County Down website

Whether they'll have anything useful to you, I can't say, but as my interests are centred on the Ballyworkan and Tandragee area, which is more or less midway between Richhill and Donaghmore, there's a chance you might find something.

Arthur

[SarahC25]

I have a William George Harcourt from Drumbrain Aghabog Co Monaghan who married an Eliza Jane Gillespie from Garron Aghabog Co Monaghan in 1891. In the Irish Census 1901 they are living at Drumbrain with his widowed father also called William. By the 1911 Census Eliza Jane is a widow. William died in 1904 aged 83 (Genealogy.ie) and William George in 1910 aged 51. It appears William George and Eliza had triplets born on 29th Sep 1895 only one survived - called George. I hope this helps.

[arthurk]

Hi Sarah, and welcome

Thanks for your message on this old thread - I'm still around, but the other two participants seem not to have been here since 2012. I've sent them both a private message to let them know that you've posted, so if they're not still subscribed to the thread but still have the same email address they should now know about it.

I think probably they would be more likely to be able to help you than I am, as I can't see a link between your line and mine at present. However, it's always good to get new bits of information, as it might all fit together some time. Feel free to take a look at my website ("Home Page" in my Profile), though I suspect you won't pick up very much of use to you there.

Arthur