Daniel Golden/Mary Willem County Down

[t@nya]

Hello

Today I discovered that the parents of my great great great grandmother Theresa Golden (who married in 1873 in Noumea, New Caledonia) were Daniel Golden and Marie (Mary?) Willem? from County Down. Theresa was said to have come from that place also, and was born around 1850.

Unfortunately, I'm not certain of the place in the county they came from.

There have been suggests of Cragerlagh, Creevyloughgare, or Erinagh so far.

Below, is an image of part of the marriage certificate, with the place name on it.

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w316/Jayell23/trimmed1.jpg


Any help with identifying that place name, or any information about Daniel Golden and Mary Willem would be greatly appreciated.

[t@nya]

The consensus on this and other sites seems to be that Creevyloughgare is the most likely. Any advice on tracing his family would be welcomed. I only discovered that I had Irish ancestors early this morning, and I have no idea what to do next.

[t@nya]

I just tried RootsIreland. Could not find any of my family. :(

[Jan1954]

The consensus on this and other sites seems to be that Creevyloughgare is the most likely. Any advice on tracing his family would be welcomed. I only discovered that I had Irish ancestors early this morning, and I have no idea what to do next.
Have a read of the stickies at the top of the General Irish History forum (http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/22-General-Irish-Family-History) to start with. :smile5: There is quite a lot of helpful information there.

You may also find that this CD (http://www.parishchest.com/ireland_2011_edition__P82575) is of great assistance.

[t@nya]

Thanks very much. :)

[Elwyn Soutter]

I looked in Griffiths Valuation for Co Down (c 1862) and in the 1901 census for the county. There’s not a single GOLDEN household in the county in either. Clearly not a common name in Co Down.

[t@nya]

Thanks for that. I've also gotten that impression from the little searching I've done.

[t@nya]

After doing some googling, I get the idea that Creevyloughgare is within Lisburn registration district. Is this true?

[Elwyn Soutter]

The civil registration district for Creevyloughgare is Downpatrick.

Creevyloughgare about a mile south of Saintfield, and is in the parish of Saintfield. It’s agricultural land, 510 acres in size and in 1863 there were 44 households there listed in Griffiths Valuation. You can see a list of the occupants and a map of the townland on this site (it’s just to the west of the old railway line running south out of Saintfield):

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameSearch

NB Griffiths Valuation is a census substitute (as all the Irish censuses prior to 1901 have been destroyed, save for a few fragments).

[t@nya]

Ah, thank you. :)

I read somewhere that Saintfield was within the Lisburn registration district, so I was thinking Creevyloughgare might be too.

[Elwyn Soutter]

You can see a list of all the townlands (ie placenames) in each county on this link. The civil registration district is normally the same as the PLU (Poor Law Union).

Street names and house numbers were only introduced to Ireland in rural areas in the 1950s. Prior to that a person gave their townland as their address. The postman and everyone else in the townland knew where everyone lived and so no further detail was required.

So, in my opinion, you are looking for a townland beginning “Creag….”. Trouble is there isn’t one I can see in Co Down.

www.seanruad.com/

[t@nya]

Several people have said that the place name is most likely Creevyloughgare from the pronunciation. After all, the people in New Caledonia would likely spell it how they thought it sounded. Do you think they're wrong?

[Jan1954]

This pdf document of the Registration Districts of Ireland (http://genealogyresearch.org.uk/IRL_RegistrationDistricts1871.pdf) is also a useful resource. :smile5:

[Coromandel]

Is there any clue in the next line of the marriage certificate? From the tops of the letters visible in the image it looks like it says the mystery placename again.

[t@nya]

Is there any clue in the next line of the marriage certificate? From the tops of the letters visible in the image it looks like it says the mystery placename again.

I'm afraid not, it just says that Daniel Golden and Marie Willem live in that place, whatever it is.

[Elwyn Soutter]

You ask whether Creevyloughgare might be wrong. Difficult to say. Probably the next step would be to test it by checking parish records for her baptism or signs of any other Golden family members.

I’d guess that Theresa was RC. If so, that was the RC parish of Carrickmannon & Saintfield. Their records go back to 1837. Copies are held in PRONI Belfast and also in the National Library, Dublin. They are not on line as far as I am aware and so you would need to get someone to look them up for you. (You could also write to the parish priest but they get rather a lot of genealogical enquiries these days and you may not get a reply).

http://www.
irishtimes.com/ancestor/browse/counties/rcmaps/downrc.htm

[t@nya]

Thanks very much for that. Only 1837. :( I guess my search may come to a halt more quickly than I expected.

[Elwyn Soutter]

Very few RC parishes outside big cities like Belfast and Dublin have records before the 1820s, so this parish is fairly typical. It's extremely hard to research an RC line back beyond 1800 or thereabouts, unless they happened to be very wealthy, or very famous. Obviously most of the population didn't fall into that category.

[t@nya]

Hopefully, I'll still be able to get another generation back, then. Thanks for your help Elwyn. :)

[Jan1954]

Both Flyleaf Press (http://www.parishchest.com/Flyleaf_Press__LID13155) and Eneclann (http://www.parishchest.com/Eneclann__LID13089) produce CDs and books that could help with Irish research. Click the links and have a rummage to see if there is anything suitable.

[t@nya]

Thanks, I'll do that. :)

[t@nya]

My thanks to Elwyn for his help.

I've confirmed that Creevyloughgare was the right place name due to Theresa's shipping record to Australia (she arrived in Sydney 28 Sep 1871 and was a housemaid)

Due to the lack of records for them there (there are gaps in the records that cover Theresa's likely baptism and, probably, her parents' marriage and the baptisms of any siblings) and the rarity of the surname in the county it looks like they came from somewhere else in Ireland and then moved elsewhere, probably by 1864. I'm thinking that they emigrated. It's going to be very difficult, to say the least, to find out where they went.

[t@nya]

Another update.

Today, thanks to kindly volunteer from New Caledonia, I got a copy of Therese's death certificate. And the information that she had three sons out of wedlock after her husband's death (she had three daughters with that husband).

It has her parents as Harry Golden and Mary William, and a birth date of December 1848 (she was really born around 1850)

I'm willing to believe that she was born in December, due to the fact that her birthday may have been celebrated by the family, but the fact that her father has the wrong name makes me wary about the mother's maiden name as well.

I'm wondering, though, where the name "Harry" came from.

Still, I do have more leads, descendants wise, so that's something.

[Elwyn Soutter]

Mistakes on death certificates are very common. The informant often had little or no personal knowledge of the deceased's parents and so mistakes are understandable. I'd favour the information on the marriage certificate which is first hand, over that on the death.

[t@nya]

Me too. Sadly, that means I still need confirmation on her mother's maiden name.