William CLARK Southport Photographer

[lizone]

I have a rather fine photograph which I am trying to date - I think it's either my great great grandmother but more likely to be the older sister of my great grandmother. The photo is labled 'William Clark, 15 Nevill Street, Southport. Permanent Photograph Patent Chromotype'. The fashion of the garments suggests mid to late 1880s to me (high collar and quite modest), and I understand that the Chromotype process was first used around 1874. From what I have read, the process didn't catch on as this type of photograph was relatively expensive - but, luckily for me, the picture has hardly faded. I have been unable to find Clark in census/trade directories etc, but I was hoping someone may be able to help me out.

Thanks

Liz

[malcolm99]

I've had no luck finding him anywhere but I see the V & A have a photograph by him that they date as 1883:
http://www.
vandaimages.com/results.asp?image=1000LM0276-01

There are a couple of references to him in The National Archives and they give his address as 16 Nevill Street - but that's not much help either.

[malcolm99]

I forgot to mention that there is an interesting description in the National Archives about "Benjamin Wyles & Co., Victoria Studio, Nevill Street, Southport." It's just possible that William Clark operated out of this address - see 'Contents' on this page:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=124-1119&cid=-1#-1

[lizone]

Malcolm

Thank you for looking. Yes, I had seen those references, but looking at them again, perhaps the photo is slightly earlier than I thought and may be the late 1870s/early 1880s. I wonder if the Clark studio was rather short-lived?

Liz

[Coromandel]

After discovering that Southport was in the parish of North Meols, I came across in this 1881 census:

2 Shakespeare Street, North Meols, Lancs
William Clarke, head, 35, photographer, b. Preston Lancs
Gesana Clarke, wife, 28, b. Oldham Lancs
Charles W. Clarke, son, 3, b. Southport Lancs
Mary Clarke, dau, 2, b. Southport Lancs
Thomas L. Clarke, son, 1, b. Southport
Isabella Davis, visitor, wid., 48, nurse, b. Scotland

RG 11/3751, f.82, p.14. Census returns Crown copyright, in care of The National Archives

His wife's unusual name may help in tracking the family in later censuses.

From FreeBMD it looks as if William Clark married Gesana Lees in the Runcorn district Q2 1876. Cheshire BMDs confirms that they married one another, and gives the name of the church: Norley St John.

[Coromandel]

FamilySearch has baptisms for these two children of William and Gesana Clark(e):

- Charles W. Clarke, 3 Aug 1885, St Mary's, Walton on the Hill, Lancs
- Robert Speakman Clark, 30 Dec 1889, St Peter's, Liverpool

So they appear to have moved away from Southport by 1885.

[malcolm99]

After discovering that Southport was in the parish of North Meols, I came across in this 1881 census:

2 Shakespeare Street, North Meols, Lancs
William Clarke, head, 35, photographer, b. Preston Lancs
.

...and Charles Holden, 23, photographer is living at 4 Bradley Street, North Meols RG11/3748 fol. 123 p. 20.
Lo and behold at 5 Bradley Street is a William Holden and family.

Now from the TNA we know that William Clark and Charles Holden collaborated on a photograph of “Dog sitting by fence” and that Clark took an Oval portrait of William Holden,see: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=124-1192&cid=-1#-1 ) and so that seems some sort of proof that they were working together around 1881.

I’m not sure this moves things on very much, but I thought it was interesting.

(Record in care of TNA: Crown copyright)

[Coromandel]

From Liverpool Parish Registers on Ancestry:

- Charles William Clark, son of William (agent) and Gesana, of 2 Shakspeare Street, Southport, was baptised at Bootle St John on 4 June 1877.
- Robert Speakman Clark, son of William (cotton broker) and Gesana, of Melling, was baptised 30 December 1889 at Liverpool St Peter (b. 14 Dec. 1888)

From the 1877 baptism, William was already at Shak(e)speare Street by 1877, but giving his occupation as agent. That doesn't mean he didn't already have a sideline in photography, though. It would have been nice if we could find this William at Nevill Street but perhaps that was just a studio, not his house? Perhaps local directories or newspapers would fill in some details, but I haven't so far found any online.

The 1891 census finds the family in Melling, with William shown as a cotton broker ('agent' added in another hand). Five children (13, 12, 10, 9 and 7) were shown as born in Southport while the youngest (2 year old Robert S.) was born in Melling. (RG 12/3028, f.79, p.31).

[malcolm99]

From the 1877 baptism, William was already at Shak(e)speare Street by 1877, but giving his occupation as agent. That doesn't mean he didn't already have a sideline in photography, though. It would have been nice if we could find this William at Nevill Street but perhaps that was just a studio, not his house? Perhaps local directories or newspapers would fill in some details, but I haven't so far found any online.


Everything does seem to point towards William working at Benjamin Wyles's studio in Nevill Street (#3) but there's no certain proof yet. I’m sure I found the studio listed in a contemporary Directory yesterday but I haven’t got the details to hand.

[malcolm99]

Wyles was evidently quite a noted and innovative photographer (do a Google search for him) and it seems more than likely that he would be experimenting with/using the latest methods of photography such as ‘Permanent Photograph Patent Chromotype’ as in #1.

[Coromandel]

Benjamin Wyles was still around in 1891, shown as a photographer & painter at 201 Lord Street, Southport (RG 12/3036, f.104, p.32) and on the very next page of the census enumerator's book, at 16 Nevill Street, is Samuel Mallin (photographer).

So far I've not found 15 Nevill Street on any census. Many of the properties in Nevill Street were shown as unoccupied on the 1891 census. The 1911 enumerator's list explains why: it describes numbers 1 to 27 Nevill Street as 'lock-up shops, offices, &c.' not used as dwellings. By then no. 16 was also a lock-up shop, not used as a dwelling.

[malcolm99]

Yes, Wyles had moved up the road by 1885 and his adverts in the 'Amateur Photographer' show him at 54-62 Neville Street (evidently a shop with a 1st floor studio). He must have been doing very well to support such a large establishment. From other entries on Google it appears he also sold cameras.

http://www.
archive.org/stream/amateurphotogra00unkngoog#page/n288/mode/2up/search/wyles

[Coromandel]

...and Charles Holden, 23, photographer is living at 4 Bradley Street, North Meols RG11/3748 fol. 123 p. 20.
Lo and behold at 5 Bradley Street is a William Holden and family.

Now from the TNA we know that William Clark and Charles Holden collaborated on a photograph of “Dog sitting by fence” and that Clark took an Oval portrait of William Holden,see: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=124-1192&cid=-1#-1 ) and so that seems some sort of proof that they were working together around 1881.

I’m not sure this moves things on very much, but I thought it was interesting.

On the contrary, malcom99, it's an important piece of the jigsaw: Charles later went on to set up his own studio in Rusholme, and this site about Rusholme photographers says he had been apprenticed . . . guess where . . . at 'the studio of Benjamin Wyles in Southport':

http://
rusholmearchive.org/rusholme-photographers

[malcolm99]

Well done Coromandel - it's good when odd pieces help build a more complete picture. William Clark was probably too old to be an apprentice with Benjamin Wyles: perhaps he was just a gifted amateur who was good enough to meet Wyles's high standards and so could 'indulge' himself in the work of the studio.

There are certainly quite a number of examples of Clark's work around - perhaps he worked as an agent for part of the week and as a photographer the rest. Some of the examples of Clark & Holden's work mentioned in the TNA catalogue is certainly rather whimsical and obviously wasn't all done for money.

[malcolm99]

Very late in the day I've just discovered that there is a rather active North Meols (Southport) FHS who may be able to help. They also have a Forum where queries can be posted: http://www.
nmfhssouthport.co.uk/index.php?f=data_home&a=0

[lizone]

Thanks Coromandel and Malcolm!

Post #5 - the fact that Southport was in North Meols had thrown my search.
Post #6 - could the fact that Charles W Clark was baptised at Walton on the Hill in 1885 mean that by that date William Clark had finished at Nevill Street?
Post #7 - slightly off my topic, but perhaps useful to others, could William Holden and Charles Holden be brothers (father noted as the wonderfully named William Archimedes Holden)?
Post #11 - I had assumed incorrectly that the Clarks would have been 'living above the shop', but this explanation makes sense.

Looking at the photo again, the text is difficult to read but I have to admit it is actually '16 Nevill Street' - hope that hasn't been too much of a red herring.

I feel I should try to post the photo now for you to see ....

Liz

[malcolm99]

I feel I should try to post the photo now for you to see ....



That's the spirit Liz!

[lizone]

Here we go (I hope) ...

http://s1127.photobucket.com/albums/l628/lizone3/

Liz

[Coromandel]

What a lovely clear photo! Thank you for posting it. I'm no great expert on costume so can only point you to some useful websites. In case you don't already know about Roger Vaughan's guide to dating cartes de visite, have a look here:

http://www.
cartes.freeuk.com/time/date.htm

For women's hairstyles of the 1870s and 1880s, see

http://
demodecouture.com/hair/hair_natural.html

and the two linked pages.

Looking at the history of the 'patent chromotype' itself, the earliest reference to that phrase in the 19th Century British Library Newspapers collection is June 1876 and the latest is March 1880. There don't seem to be very many different advertisements in this period, though, so this probably only represents a few individual photographers.

The mid-1870s does seem to be a reasonable guess at when this new technology came on the scene. Google Books provides a tantalising snippet from the Journal of Photography[i] for 1877:


[i]Now, among the novelties of the last year or so the really very beautiful pictures called "chromotype" occupy, perhaps, the first rank; and though I did not intend to give up silver printing just yet, I find that if I do not somebody else will get the best part of my business - my neighbours coming out so strongly with their patent chromotype I determined not to be left any longer in the background. Accordingly I resolved to adopt the process ...

The latest date for the photo, based on the evidence from the Clark children's ages/birthplaces etc., would be around 1884/5. After that the family seem to have moved away from Southport.

So based on the technology and the family history we're looking at between c.1875 and c.1885. Perhaps the fashion experts will be able to narrow it down a bit more!

[malcolm99]

That is a really good photo Liz.

It's interesting that William has his own 'logo' which seems to imply that he did have his own business (albeit he may have shared premises with Wyles and/or Holden).

It might sound a daft question, but is there any printing (of any sort) on the reverse of the card?

[malcolm99]

This is the description of one photograph from this TNA page: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=124-1119&cid=-1#-1

“Portrait of young girl in hat sitting on chair-arm 1119/128 No Date
Contents: Negative Sheet Number W23/29

The reverse of 1119/128, it carries the whole of an article from the 'Southport News' entitled "A Visit to Mr Wyles' Photographic Studio." and the first 9 lines of an article "Photography in Excelsis," again extolling the virtues of Wyles' Studio. (see accompanying photocopy). 1119/129 No Date
Contents: Negative Sheet Number W23/30”

It might be worth trying to get hold of a photocopy of this article from Greater Manchester County Record Office (without an exact date it would be time-consuming for someone to try and track it down in the original newspaper).

[lizone]

Thanks Malcolm

I'll see what I can find.

As the photo is perhaps a bit earlier than I thought, I'm now not sure who the lady could be. My great great grandmother would have been 45 years old in 1880 (born 1835) and the oldest sister of my great grandmother would have been 16 years old (born 1864). I wonder then if it is the oldest sister and the photo was taken around 1884 - 85, making the subject 20 - 21 years old. The family were from Burslem, Staffordshire, so there's no connection with Southport (from what I can see), therefore I'm assuming it must have been taken on holiday.

Liz

[lizone]

Oh, and unfortunately there's nothing on the reverse of the card.

Liz