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View Full Version : Presbyters, Philalethes and Pseudocheus - please don't let the title put you off!



susan-w
02-07-2005, 9:51 PM
Iíve just discovered that a gg..grandfather, John Jacques, Rector of Cowley, wrote a book in 1707.

However, I don't understand what the title means. :) It is:

Ordination by Meer Presbyters proved Void and Null, in a Conference between Philalethes a Presbyter of the Church of England, and Pseudocheus a Dissenting Teacher

It's obviously to do with politics within the church at that time, but I've no idea what. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Thank you.
Susan

AnnB
03-07-2005, 1:44 PM
Hello Susan
Sounds like rivetting bedtime reading..... :rolleyes: I am afraid I can't even begin to imagine what it is about (and frankly, don't really want to!) but if you put each of the 'p' words into Google except with meer presbyters, then you need to put in both words), you'll get some hits which should help you. If you ever fathom out what it is about, I would be interested to know (I think ;) )
Best wishes
Ann

mary elms
03-07-2005, 11:13 PM
Hello Susan,

I must admit I was hoping someone else would have a go at this but since they haven't (yet anyway) here are my thoughts -

It looks to me like a discussion on the Apostolic Succession - still sadly a bone of contention between non-conformists and the established church.

The idea is that clergy are ordained by the laying on of hands through a line of bishops that can be traced continuously back to the first apostles. When the Protestant Churches broke away from the Roman Church this line was deemed to have been broken because their clergy were not ordained by bishops in the succession but by "mere presbyters" i.e. ordinary clergymen like themselves. The Church of England is an exception.

Sadly this is still a live issue - Anglican / Methodist Union collapsed on this very point in the 1970s. One day God will knock all our heads together in despair but until then we go on being human beings with all our human silliness. :D


Mary.

susan-w
04-07-2005, 9:30 PM
Thank you very much for your help.

Ann, Iíd already tried Google (always my first port of call!), but was totally confused by hundreds of hits. Amazingly, Iíve now managed to find a copy of the book. As you suspect, itís just the thing for insomniacs.

Mary, thank you for your thoughts - you were right. Thanks to the local library, Iíve discovered that Uxbridge was a hotbed of dissenters. JJ was a supporter of the established church, and he argued that these dissenters were ďin a most Dangerous and Deplorable ConditionĒ. He believed that ďtheir Conventicles to be no more a Church, than any Number of Merchants that are met together upon the Royal Exchange.Ē Phew! :)

I now remember the Apostolic Succession debate from my convent primary school (although Iím C of E). The nuns there insisted that the Church of England wasnít an exception at all, as you mention, but had broken the Apostolic Succession...

As you say, a long-lasting debate. Thank you.

mary elms
04-07-2005, 10:58 PM
Thank you very much for your help.
Ann, .........Amazingly, Iíve now managed to find a copy of the book. As you suspect, itís just the thing for insomniacs.
You're welcome. As someone who periodically finds herself searching for old books I'd be interested to know where you found it.


I now remember the Apostolic Succession debate from my convent primary school (although Iím C of E). The nuns there insisted that the Church of England wasnít an exception at all, as you mention, but had broken the Apostolic Succession...
... which puts this poor Methodist Dissenter even further beyond the pale |laugh1| We are daft sometimes!


Mary.

AnnB
05-07-2005, 2:03 PM
I see there is a copy of the said book, for sale at the Abebooks site I don't think I'm going to start a mad rush to buy it - especially at a mere £110 :eek:
Best wishes
Ann

susan-w
10-07-2005, 10:12 PM
Sorry to be so late in my reply. I hadnít had time to retrieve the links below until the weekend.

Mary,
I have a readerís ticket at the British Library, which is obviously the place to go for old books.

There are some other sources, though, that may be accessible at other libraries. These include:

The Nineteenth Century Collection, indexed at http://c19.chadwyck.co.uk/. You have to go to a subscribing library to see the microfilm, though.

Also Thompson & Gale, http://www.gale.com/, which have an eighteenth century collection, with the books actually online. However, this is only available through subscribing libraries, except in the free-access week every year.

Iíve found Making of America, http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/moa/, useful for some journals, and also http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/ilej/ for a limited range.

Ann,
I think that bookís by another author, but on the same riveting subject :). I certainly wonít be owning a copy! Give me the library any day...

Sorry for the delayed reply, and thank you for all your help.
Susan

AnnB
11-07-2005, 8:12 AM
Ann,
I think that bookís by another author, but on the same riveting subject :). I certainly wonít be owning a copy! Give me the library any day...
Susan
Silly me for not reading the title and author properly |blush| I was so taken aback that there was actually a 'hit' when I put in part of the title, I would never have dreamt that there could have been another book on the same lines!
Best wishes
Ann

mary elms
11-07-2005, 9:57 AM
Thanks.

Mary.