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mtw63
20-08-2011, 5:16 PM
Hi

I am looking for any birth/parent information for Morris Levi/Levy born around 1802 in Spitalfields, married Jane Bowman Miller in 1864 and died 8th May 1875 in Spencer St, St George in the East, London. He had a brother called Phillip and his father was Henry.

Thanks for any help that might be out there.

Regards
Martin

Jeuel
20-08-2011, 6:37 PM
According to his marriage cert his father was a glass cutter. I assume you are getting his year of birth from his death cert? His marriage was certainly rather late in life - perhaps he married earlier? His name would suggest that he might be Jewish, although he married in a C of E church. If he was born Jewish there wouldn't be a baptism record for him.

Have you found Morris or Henry or Phillip on any censuses?

Jeuel
20-08-2011, 6:44 PM
1871
1 Spencer Street, St George in the East
Morris Levy head 69 costermonger b. Middlesex Spitalfields
Jane Levy wife 58 b Surrey Croydon
Joseph Levy son 17 housepainter St George in the East

IF this is the right chap, then he and Jane married after Joseph's birth OR Joseph had a different mother.
Regarding the Jewish angle, Spitalfields had a very strong Jewish community at that time.

RG10/535 folio 33 page 14 (record held by TNA, Crown copyright)

Jeuel
20-08-2011, 6:48 PM
And here we hit a snag - looking for Joseph in 1861 there's only one with father Morris, but he w!as born in Whitechapel and his parents are Morris and Fanny, who are still around in 1871!

Coromandel
20-08-2011, 7:12 PM
Joseph Lever/Levi was born 26 January 1854 at 24 Spencer Street, St George, Middlesex, according to this site:

http://www.
geni.com/people/Jane-Bowman/6000000002422556924

which gives his parents as Morris Moses or Levy and Jane Miller Bowman. Other children of Morris are listed as Henry (1837), Frances (1839), Phillip (1841), Samuel (1844), George (1849) Elizabeth (1850) and Jane (1850). For these children, unlike Joseph, only years of birth are shown, so these may be guesstimates from a census?

Perhaps you can make contact with the tree owner to find out more?

P.S. the same site gives Morris' date of birth as 18 March 1802.

Pam Downes
20-08-2011, 8:10 PM
Following on from Coromandel's brilliant find, this would seem to be the family in 1851.
HO107/1547 folio 194 page 14
St George in the East
Morris Levy, 49, glass cutter, Middlesex Spitalfields
Jane, 38, Middlesex Hackney
Henry, 14,
Philip, 10,
Samuel, 7
HO107/1547 folio 194 page 15
George, 2,
Frances, 12,
Jane, 5,
Elizabeth, 7 mos

All the children were born St George in the East.

I think this is Jane and Samuel in 1881.
RG11/455 folio 34 page 7

(Census in care of TNA & Crown copyright)

Pam

mtw63
21-08-2011, 12:13 PM
Yes I have Morris on the 1851/61 & 71 census records and Phillip on the 1851/61/71/81/91 census records - but nothing for Henry as yet.

If Morris was born Jewish (which I had assumed, rightly or wrongly) would there be any other type of record showing his birth?


Thanks
Martin


According to his marriage cert his father was a glass cutter. I assume you are getting his year of birth from his death cert? His marriage was certainly rather late in life - perhaps he married earlier? His name would suggest that he might be Jewish, although he married in a C of E church. If he was born Jewish there wouldn't be a baptism record for him.

Have you found Morris or Henry or Phillip on any censuses?

mtw63
21-08-2011, 12:18 PM
I believe this is my Gt Gt Grandfather Morris.

It appears to me that he didn't get married until after all of his children were born - I have a copy of my Gt Grandmother's birth certificate (Elizabeth Ann Levy) born 4/8/1850 and Morris and Jane Levy (formerly Miller) are shown as her parents. The family were living at 1 St Georges Terrace at the time.

Thanks
Martin


1871
1 Spencer Street, St George in the East
Morris Levy head 69 costermonger b. Middlesex Spitalfields
Jane Levy wife 58 b Surrey Croydon
Joseph Levy son 17 housepainter St George in the East

IF this is the right chap, then he and Jane married after Joseph's birth OR Joseph had a different mother.
Regarding the Jewish angle, Spitalfields had a very strong Jewish community at that time.

RG10/535 folio 33 page 14 (record held by TNA, Crown copyright)

mtw63
21-08-2011, 12:22 PM
I have Joseph at 20 Spencer St, North Side in 1871 living with his parents and siblings.

At some point, Joseph's branch of the family seem to adopt the surname of Lever instead of Levy - could this have been to avoid any discrimination against them beacuse of their religion?

Martin


And here we hit a snag - looking for Joseph in 1861 there's only one with father Morris, but he w!as born in Whitechapel and his parents are Morris and Fanny, who are still around in 1871!

Kerrywood
21-08-2011, 1:14 PM
At some point, Joseph's branch of the family seem to adopt the surname of Lever instead of Levy - could this have been to avoid any discrimination against them beacuse of their religion
It's a possibility. Names were often changed through a desire to assimilate into the local community. Many present-day LEVER families were originally called LEVY/LEVI.


If Morris was born Jewish (which I had assumed, rightly or wrongly) would there be any other type of record showing his birth?
There are some early birth records for the Great Synagogue and New Synagogue, extracted to the website Synagogue Scribes, which also has a lot of useful background for Jewish research.

www.
synagoguescribes.com

When searching, be flexible with spelling -- Morris might originally have been Moses, Myer, Moishe etc.

This thread can be moved to the Jewish Roots forum if you want, where it may attract members with relevant experience.

Kerrywood
21-08-2011, 3:36 PM
Further to the above ...


I have Joseph at 20 Spencer St, North Side in 1871 living with his parents and siblings.
Perhaps the above reference is to 1861, RG9/278 folio 131 page 25 ?
The house number is hard to read, but maybe 24 Spencer Street (see next page) ?


Yes I have Morris on the 1851/61 & 71 census records and Phillip on the 1851/61/71/81/91 census records
Though it doesn't necessarily help, I think this may be Morris' wife Jane and the children in 1841.

1841 census
HO107/697 bk 4 folio 12 page 16
John Street, St George in the East
Jane Levy 27 Y
Henry Levy 8 Y
Frances Levy 6 Y
Phillip Levy 1 Y

If this is the right family, Morris is apparently not at home.

(census records held by TNA, Crown copyright)

mtw63
22-08-2011, 12:35 PM
OK thanks - how do I arrange for the thread to be moved?

Martin


It's a possibility. Names were often changed through a desire to assimilate into the local community. Many present-day LEVER families were originally called LEVY/LEVI.


There are some early birth records for the Great Synagogue and New Synagogue, extracted to the website Synagogue Scribes, which also has a lot of useful background for Jewish research.

www.
synagoguescribes.com

When searching, be flexible with spelling -- Morris might originally have been Moses, Myer, Moishe etc.

This thread can be moved to the Jewish Roots forum if you want, where it may attract members with relevant experience.

Kerrywood
22-08-2011, 12:56 PM
Moved for you. :smile5: