FRANKS

[lisacam68]

Hi,
I am desperate to find out about my father's maternal side of the family and am stuck!
I can not find my nan's birth record on any searches I have done, as I would like to obtain her birth certificate to get her mother's maiden name. Unfortunately we know nothing about my nan's family as her parents were Jewish and she married out of the faith, so was mourned out of the family. My dad doesn't know anything which really frustrates me!!
I have my nan's 2 marriage certificates and death certificate. She first married in 1927 at St Pauls Shadwell, she stated that her age was 21, but she lied about her age so she could marry (from what I remember she told me she was 16). Her father at this time is stated as Joseph Franks and is deceased. Her death certificate states that her date and place of birth was 24 June 1910 Bethnal Green, Tower Hamlets. My dad has confirmed that her birth name was Leila or something similar! So does anyone know why I can't find her or how can I?
My dad does not know my nan's mother's name. She forgave my nan and lived with them in Edmonton until she died, which was around the time my dad first started school, so around 1943 ish. I have done searches for Franks deaths in Edmonton around this time and have found nothing. My dad confirmed she married twice, thinking Joseph Franks was husband no 1, so that would explain why I can't find her. Her father was Chief Constable of Hertfordshire, done some google searches but not found anything.
My nan's father was a Joseph Franks, we were told he was a Polish Jew and he was a tailor and that's all I know! He died before my nan was married and she was taught about his trade, so I guess he died a few years before her marriage.
So basically I need my nan's birth certificate to get her mother's maiden name to be able to move on with this, or find out who was Chief Constable of Hertfordshire 1900-1920's!
I have looked at loads of Jewish sites as well, was hoping to find where Joseph was buried but without knowledge of when he died not easy! We were also going to visit the Jewish cemetery in Edmonton for my dad's grandmother but again without a name impossible!!
So any help would be very gratefully received!!
Thanks,
Lisa

[olliecat]

Hi Lisa.

I've re-read your post a couple of times and I know you are looking for your nan born 24 June 1910. Although you have stated that her maiden name is FRANKS, I am confused as to her first name. Do you know it?

Also who did she marry in 1925?

There is a Leah Franks in the 1911 census, born abt 1910 living in Bethnal Green with father Joseph and Joseph is a journeyman tailor. Mother is possibly Ruth (I'm still working it out.) However before we look further, perhaps you could clarify your nan's first name for us and then we can search for a birth certificate for her.

1911 census: RG14/1441 SN389

[lisacam68]

Hi,
Thanks for replying to my post.
My nan's name on her marriage and death certificates was Lilian but her name at birth was Leila (or something similar according to my dad). So I need a birth certificate for a Leila Franks.
Her first marriage was to Charles Arthur Dole in 1927.
Her father Joseph Franks would have been born in Poland/Russia and her mother was born in Hertfordshire I guess.
I was always under the impression my nan had siblings from stories she told me when I was young.
My dad knew of one brother called David who lived in Edmonton, but don't know anything else about him.

[grisel]

There is a Leah Frank in the 1911 census, born abt 1910 living in Bethnal Green with father Joseph and Joseph is a journeyman tailor. Mother is possibly Ruth (I'm still working it out.) However before we look further, perhaps you could clarify your nan's first name for us and then we can search for a birth certificate for her.

1911 census: RG14/1441 SN389
Looking at the free index for 1911 this couple claim to have married in 1910 but so far I can't see a marriage.
Maybe Leah/Leila was registered under her mother's name?
If it was 1910 in Bethnal Green then there are some possibilities
Jun Q Bethnal G
Leah Lily Bell
Leah Katie Raingo_d
Leah Yanikoff
Sep Q
Leah Gerba
Leah Joseph

No leilas or similar that I can see

[olliecat]

Looking at the free index for 1911 this couple claim to have married in 1910 but so far I can't see a marriage.


I think that could be married 7 years rather than 1 year. The census is not clear but Joseph is enumerated as "Husband" and Ruth is enumerated as "Mother". Well she can't be Joseph's mother since they are approximately the same age, so they are more likely to be husband and wife. Even so, there doesn't appear to be a marriage that matches. There are some DAVIS step children in the census, so it could be an idea to look for births under this surname. I think Ruth DAVIS may be in the 1901 census living in Spitalfields, Whitechapel. I'm not really progressing much with Joseph. He could be using a different surname in 1901.

1901: RG13 Piece: 299 Folio: 123 Page: 9 (crown copyright, care of the TNA)

[grisel]

I think that could be married 7 years rather than 1 year. The census is not clear but Joseph is enumerated as "Husband" and Ruth is enumerated as "Mother". Well she can't be Joseph's mother since they are approximately the same age, so they are more likely to be husband and wife. Even so, there doesn't appear to be a marriage that matches. There are some DAVIS step children in the census, so it could be an idea to look for births under this surname. I think Ruth DAVIS may be in the 1901 census living in Whitechapel. I'm not really progressing much with Joseph. He could be using a different surname in 1901.

1901: RG13 Piece: 299 Folio: 123 Page: 9 (crown copyright, care of the TNA)
Thanks for that Olliecat. Will hunt on..

[lisacam68]

I wondered whether Joseph Franks can't be found in the 1901 census because he wasn't in this country at that time?

[olliecat]

I wondered whether Joseph Franks can't be found in the 1901 census because he wasn't in this country at that time?

It's possible but where are all the children? Since this family is being so elusive in the 1901 census, I'll post some of the details of the 1911. At some point, please look at this census image for yourself.

FRANKS, Joseph, husband, marr, 40, journeyman tailor, Russia
FRANKS, Ruth, mother, marr, 39, Berkshire
FRANKS, Julia, dau 19, felling hand tailoress, Spitalfields
FRANKS, John, son 17, wood carver apprentice, Bethnal Green
FRANKS, Solomon, son, 15, pianoforte maker apprentice, Bethnal Green
FRANKS, Rebecca, dau, 12, Bethnal Green
FRANKS, Zetta [Yetta?], dau, 12, Bethnal Green
FRANKS, Daniel [David?], son, 4, Bethnal Green
FRANKS, Leah, dau, 9 mo, Bethnal Green
DAVIS, Esther, stepchild, 17, Bethnal Green
DAVIS, Eva, stepchild, 12, Bethnal Green

RG14/1441 SN389

Note: for the two stepchildren, there are birth registrations for them in the Whitechapel registration district, so they were more likely born in Spitalfields as per the 1901 census.

(census crown copyright, care of the TNA)

[Mutley]

While searching the 1911 to check out the family I also found a
Soloman Frank married to Sophie (she was a widow with Rosenbloom children).
However, Soloman (b. 1881) was a also tailor, he came from Russia, was living in Stepney and had a daughter called Leah Frank born Stepney in 1908.
RG14/1573 SN138

I wondered if Solomon and Joseph were related, possibly brothers?

I think Solomon is a boarding house in 1901 at St. George in the East with loads of other Jewish Names.
RG13/309 Folio 39 Page 69
(census crown copyright, care of the TNA)

[josie7644]

Hello Lisa,

In 1901, Ruth Davis is a 30 year-old widow, working as a milk dealer, living in Spitalfields, with Rachel E 7, Eva 2 and Sarah G 7 months.

I am guessing that Rachel E is Esther in 1911.

Class: RG13; Piece: 299; Folio: 123; Page: 9 (Copyright TNA)

Still looking for the others!

Josie :)

[Mutley]

Also in 1901 there is another Solomon but he says he was born 1875 in London.
Interestingly, there is also a Joseph Franks born Spitalfields in 1866.

They are both in 'The Victoria Home', in Whitechapel. It is a place with many men boarding, I've yet to look to see if there is any information about it.
RG13/304 Folio 74 Page 19
(TNA Copyright)

[josie7644]

Oops! Just spotted Olliecat's post #5 - another senior moment! :redface:

[lisacam68]

Thank you to all of you for all this information and your time!
This family does seem very promising and I did expect my nan to come from a large Jewish family!

[lisacam68]

Can I search the electoral rolls for 1927 as I have my nan's address at that time, so I could get her mother's name from that and maybe any other siblings who where still living at home.

[olliecat]

Can I search the electoral rolls for 1927 as I have my nan's address at that time, so I could get her mother's name from that and maybe any other siblings who where still living at home.

It would be a good idea to look at the electoral rolls. It's worth a try. :smile:

As far as I am aware, Bethnal Green and St Paul's Shadwell for this time period were in the parliamentary constituency of Stepney. You could check with the Tower Hamlets Local History and Archives Library (http://www.towerhamlets.gov.uk/lgnl/leisure_and_culture/local_history__archives.aspx). Since you have an exact address and only a single year to look up perhaps if you send a nice email, they will look for you

[lisacam68]

I will give that a go, thanks!
So from next year electoral rolls will be available to look up? That will be a great help!

[Kerrywood]

Can I search the electoral rolls for 1927 as I have my nan's address at that time, so I could get her mother's name from that and maybe any other siblings who where still living at home.

Yes, but do bear in mind that your nan may not have married from the family home. She may have been living elsewhere.

Also, before 1928 not all women were enfranchised, which will limit the number of female voters shown at any address.

The electoral rolls for this date are at London Metropolitan Archives (ref. LCC/PER/B). See this pdf file (http://217.154.230.218/NR/rdonlyres/123FA3C6-F34E-4CE3-BDC0-F2543DF4B002/0/10ELECTORALREGISTERSATLONDONMETROPOLITANARCHIVES.p df) for information.

EDIT: Just seen olliecat's reply. By all means try Tower Hamlets first, because if they have them a lookup will be cheaper there than at LMA. :smile5:

[lisacam68]

Thank you for the information. I cannot believe how difficult this family is to trace! It's taking over my life!!!

[lisacam68]

Last night my dad told me that Joseph Franks had his own shop in Bethnal Green Road. Found a site London Street Directory 1921 and found him at no.243 Bethnal Green Road! He was a ladies Tailor! I know it's only a little information but so glad I've found something at last!

[lisacam68]

Can someone look up some information for me in the 1911 census.

Winifred Franks born 1879 located in Bethnal Green in 1911.

Thanks in adavance.

[Mutley]

Might be worth looking at the original on FMP, there is a Winifred with a William at 209 Old Ford Road, he is a grocer, born 1874. They have been married 8 years and have 2 daughters Winifred and Queenie.
RG14/PN1415 SN376
(census crown copyright, care of the TNA)

[lisacam68]

Thanks for looking that up for me, I was hoping that might be my great gran as a Winifred Franks died in Edmonton in 1943, but can't be her as not married to a Joseph.

I found a Lavinia Franks who also died in Edmonton in 1943, but can't find her in any of the census.

I did email Tower Hamlets with an address for my nan when she got married and they got back to me! Unfortunately it was her brother-in-law's home, so no details of her mother or siblings!!

[Kerrywood]

I found a Lavinia Franks who also died in Edmonton in 1943

I wonder if this might relate to your family?

National Probate Calendar 1933
FRANKS Joseph of 52 Canrobert-street Bethnal-Green Middlesex died 19 January 1933 at 214a Cambridge-road Bethnal Green Administration London 7 February to Lavinia Franks widow. Effects £360 18s. 6d.

Deaths
Mar Qtr 1933
Franks Joseph age 67
Bethnal G. 1c 147

Canrobert Street is off Bethnal Green Road.

If it's the same Joseph as in 1911, he was 40, so the age at death is just within a 5-year margin of error.

I know he was said to be deceased when your nan married in 1927, but for various reasons people weren't always honest (or fully knowledgeable) about their fathers when they got married.

EDIT: I think 214a Cambridge Road was Bethnal Green Hospital (formerly the workhouse infirmary).

[Kerrywood]

Further to the above, and taking another tack ...


My dad confirmed she married twice, thinking Joseph Franks was husband no 1, so that would explain why I can't find her. Her father was Chief Constable of Hertfordshire, done some google searches but not found anything. ... So basically I need my nan's birth certificate to get her mother's maiden name to be able to move on with this, or find out who was Chief Constable of Hertfordshire 1900-1920's!

The Chief Constable of Hertfordshire from 1841 to his death in 1880 was Colonel Archibald ROBERTSON, a Scotsman. He appears to have had a daughter Erica Mildred ROBERTSON born 1844 in Hertfordshire, who apparently remained unmarried until 1912. Archibald ROBERTSON died in 1880 (announcement in The Times).

From 1880 to 1911 the office was held by Henry Smith DANIELL, a former Lieutenant-Colonel who had served for many years in India. He married twice, his second wife (1912) being Erica Mildred ROBERTSON, apparently the daughter of his predecessor (see above). He died in 1918 (obituary in The Times), and his widow Erica died in 1926.

The only daughter I can find for Henry Smith DANIELL, from his first marriage, is Edith Noel DANIELL born 1872 in India. She apparently married Hubert F. BARCLAY in 1890, and they are found in Surrey and Hertfordshire 1891-1911. There's a death registered in Dorset (Sturminster RD) in 1952 for Edith N. BARCLAY aged 80.

Henry Smith DANIELL was replaced as Chief Constable in 1911 by Alfred Letchworth LAW, also an ex-army man, born 1872 in India. He married in 1896 and had a daughter Dorothy Annie Eleanor LAW born 1898 in Belfast. He died in Hertford in 1928 (obituary in The Times).

Alfred Letchworth LAW was succeeded in 1929 by a Mr. George KNIGHT.

The above information was sourced from online newspapers, supported where possible by census returns and the GRO indexes.

I've not been able to connect any of these names with your FRANKS family, but I thought I'd post them in case anybody else can.

[lisacam68]

Thank you for all this information!

I'm really excited about the information regarding Joseph and Lavinia! I had started to look at deaths after my nan had married because if she had lied about her age she probably lied about her father as he would have been expected to give her away at her wedding (which he wouldn't as she was under age and marrying a non jew). I was going to write to the Federation of Synagogues buriel society, which I will still do and then I will get the death certificates.
I was wondering if my dad had got some information muddled regarding the Chief Constable of Hertfordshire, but once I find out my great grandmothers maiden name then I can see if there is a connection!
Thanks so much, I really appreciate you spending time finding this information and I'm feeling very positive about this!!!

[Kerrywood]

Personally, I would get the death certificates first, to find out if these are the right people. Joseph's certificate should have his occupation, which should help. The address on Lavinia's certificate might strike a chord with your father or other family members?

As I mentioned above, Lavinia's death certificate will not include her maiden name, as this was not stated before 1969. It could be difficult to track her down. I haven't yet been able to find a marriage.

Once you have the dates of death, it may be easier to search for burials.

[lisacam68]

Ok I'll get the death certificates first.

If Lavinia is my great grandmother then I know what her last address would be, disappointed that it won't have her maiden name on it though. My dad seems positive that she is buried at Edmonton Jewish Cemetery and I'm hoping Joseph is there too.

I have been looking for a marriage and haven't been able to find anything, very frustrating!

Feel like I'm starting to get somewhere now, annoyed with myself for rejecting Lavinia in the past as I thought she was too old as she would have been in early 40's when she had my nan, but women did in those days and still do - myself included so I should have known better!!!

Thanks again!

[lisacam68]

Lavinia is my great grandmother and Joseph is my great grandfather!

Lavinia Franks died 27 October 1943 aged 75 years old. Widow of Joseph Franks, Tailor. She lived at 118 Charlton Road, Edmonton (my old address). Informant was D. Franks, son.

Joseph Franks died 19 January 1933 aged 67 years old. Master Tailor, retired. He lived at 52 Canrobert Street, Bethnal Green. Informant was R. Franks, widow of deceased.

1934 Post Office Directory
Lavinia listed under Haberdashers at 52 Canrobert St Bethnal Green.

Joseph Franks had a shop at 243 Bethnal Green Road in 1921.

Both are buried at the Edmonton Federation Jewish Cemetery. Unfortunately they don't have anymore info and there isn't a headstone. Will be visiting there soon.

Bit confused to why Joseph's widow on his death certificate is a R. Franks. Could the L have been mistaken for an R on her signature or was Lavinia a middle name? Joseph is definately the right one as both lived at the same address and Lavinia is his widow in the National Probate Calendar.

At least I now have the year of births and deaths, but would like to know where they were before 1921!

[Kerrywood]

Glad to hear these are the right deaths, and that you've found the burials too. Well done!

Maybe Lavinia was originally Ruth (as in 1911), but preferred Lavinia. She may have used both names, at different times?

Re-reading the thread, am I right in thinking that a birth certificate for your grandmother (around 1910) has still not been located?

[Mutley]

Since this family is being so elusive in the 1901 census, I'll post some of the details of the 1911. At some point, please look at this census image for yourself.

FRANKS, Joseph, husband, marr, 40, journeyman tailor, Russia
FRANKS, Ruth, mother, marr, 39, Berkshire

RG14/1441 SN389




Bit confused to why Joseph's widow on his death certificate is a R. Franks.

Joseph and Ruth?

EDIT: Kerrywood beat me to it but we were obviously thinking the same thoughts. :smile5:

[lisacam68]

Thanks for your help with that!

Yes I still can't find it.

My dad has her old passports and her date of birth on them is 24 June 1910. I was wondering whether her birth year might have been 1911, but must be correct on her passports.

I have just been looking at the details for the 1911 census and trying to find a marriage for a Davis and a death for her husband. But can't find anything yet. Will try and find Joseph's older children in other census as they were born in Bethnal Green.

[Kerrywood]

Will try and find Joseph's older children in other census as they were born in Bethnal Green.

Yes, this is a bit of a concern. I feel we can't be totally certain yet about the parentage of all these children. :confused5:

[Kerrywood]

Sticking my neck out here, I think this is probably your family in 1901.

1901 census (record held by TNA, Crown copyright)
RG13/300 folio 37 page 17
29-30 Artillery Lane, Old Artillery Ground, Whitechapel
Frank JOSEPH Head M 30 Mantle Maker (baster) (tailor) born Poland (Russia subject)
Fanny JOSEPH Wife M 30 born Poland (Russia subject)
Julia JOSEPH Daur 8 born London
Johnny JOSEPH Son 6 born London
Solomon JOSEPH Son 4 born London
Beckey JOSEPH Daur 1 born London

It wasn't uncommon for Jewish families to reverse names in this way.

On the same basis, perhaps this is your grandmother's birth record?

Births
Sep Qtr 1910
JOSEPH Leah
Bethnal G. vol 1c page164

[Kerrywood]

Possible death for Fanny ?

Deaths
Sep Qtr 1904
JOSEPH Fanny 33
Whitechapel vol 1c page 159

[olliecat]

I've been searching for any Lavinia or Ruth born in Thatcham around 1870 and came across a Lavinia FRY born abt 1868 in the Newbury district. I was checking for marriages but couldn't find one to a DAVIES but I did see a Frank JOSEPH marriage in the Dec qtr 1904 in Mile End Old Town and one of the spouse names was Lavinia FRY. I don't know if this is a red herring yet and I haven't chased this Lavinia through the census, but thought I'd mention it as you have identified JOSEPH as a possible surname for the family in 1901.

Edit: Just noticed the previous post and potential death for Fanny JOSEPH. Hmm! that marriage in the Dec qtr of 1904 would be rather hasty remarrying, so maybe it is a red herring, (although married 7 years does tie in with the 1911 census.)

[Kerrywood]

Good find, olliecat! She's not leaping out of the census though. :frown5:

[Kerrywood]

Another possible red herring, but in 1871 there's a Louisa FRY aged 3 in Woolhampton (Thatcham subdistrict) whose father George FRY is a Sergeant of Police.
RG10/1247 folio 20 page 1 (TNA, Crown copyright)

[olliecat]

Good find, olliecat! She's not leaping out of the census though. :frown5:

BTW: splendid find with the 1901 census. Well done! :smile: I noticed a number of births with the surname JOSEPH that could match the children in the 1901 and 1911 census, including David JOSEPHS in 1907 in the Bethnal Green district. As for Lavinia FRY, - where is she in the census? Will look again in a minute.

[lisacam68]

I can't find a record for the birth of the Leah Franks, so their name must have changed in 1911.
Therefore, I would need to get birth certificate for Leah Joseph.

If they had changed their surname, would I find anything to prove this somewhere? I was thinking that when my nan got her passport years later and if she needed to show her birth certificate her surname wouldn't have matched up, or would there be an amendment on birth certificate stating this? Or was this something people just did in those days?

[Kerrywood]

Announcements of change of name can sometimes be found in the London Gazette.
www.
london-gazette.co.uk/search

Some people documented a change of name, but most did not. It was a bureaucratic and costly process, and many immigrant families never bothered. There's a useful research guide on the subject here (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/change-of-name.htm).

I don't know exactly what documentation would have been required for your grandmother to get a passport. It would probably depend on the date of the application, and on whether she was already married when she applied.

I would suggest ordering the 1910 birth certificate, and take it from there. :smile5:

[lisacam68]

The two passports are in her married names, but her maiden name is given as Franks. They probably weren't as strict in those days regarding all the documents required for a passport.

I have searched London Gazette and not found anything.

Yes think it will be a good idea to order that birth certificate! Will let you know!

[lisacam68]

Looks like we have found my nan!!

Leah Joseph born 24 June 1910 Bethnal Green. Mother Lavinia Joseph formerly Fry. Father Frank Joseph, Tailor.

I was looking for a birth for a Lavinia Fry and I found one in 1968 in Newbury. I also found an Alice Ruth Fry born in Cookham, Berks who I have also found in the 1871 & 1881 census. She is a Ruth Davis in 1901 and then Ruth Franks in 1911.

I was wondering if she was born Ruth then converted to Judaism when she meet my great grandfather and changed her name to Lavinia?

My next step at some point is to get marriage certificate for Lavinia Fry to Frank Joseph. Once I have Lavinia's father's name that will help. Plus might try and trace the Polish side of family one day!

This is so exciting. Thank you so much for all your help! This family has been so difficult to trace and their habit with changing their names didn't help at all!

[Kerrywood]

Looks like we have found my nan!!
Leah Joseph born 24 June 1910 Bethnal Green. Mother Lavinia Joseph formerly Fry. Father Frank Joseph, Tailor.

Terrific news -- so pleased! :smile5:

Yes, I think the 1904 marriage is the next step, as posted by olliecat in post #35.

If you find from the marriage certificate that Lavinia's father was George FRY, have a look at post #37 above.


I was looking for a birth for a Lavinia Fry and I found one in 1968 in Newbury.

I wonder if Lavinia FRY born 1868 in Newbury registration district might also have been known as Louisa FRY? Have a look at these census returns for George FRY and family?

1871 - Woolhampton, Thatcham, Berkshire. Age 45 Sergeant of Police
(with daughter Louisa FRY aged 3 born Thatcham)
RG10/1247 folio 20 page 1

1861 - East Ilsley, Berkshire. Age 35 County Police Sergeant.
RG9/737 folio 130 page 14

(census records held by TNA, Crown copyright)

In 1856 George FRY of Penkridge, Staffordshire, was appointed to Berkshire County Police Force.
Age when appointed - 30.
Residence when appointed - Longton
(Berkshire Record Office Quarter Sessions records, Q/APE/1/1/87 (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=005-qs_1&cid=1-6-4-1-151&kw=berkshire%20%20george%20fry#1-6-4-1-151))


Her father was Chief Constable of Hertfordshire

Wrong county, but the right sort of occupation?

Just a suggestion. :wink5:

Let us know about the marriage if/when you get it?

[lisacam68]

I will definitely get the marriage certificate next. Then might be an idea to get a birth certificate for one of the Davis children to find out name of mother, whether it will say Ruth or Lavinia, just really to prove to myself and others that Ruth and Lavinia are the same person!! Then I will eventually get Lavinia's birth certificate. Can't get them all at once as this is starting to get an expensive hobby!!!!

My mum thought there was a connection to Staffordshire, so maybe the George Fry could be promising, but will wait and see once I have marraige certificate.

[lisacam68]

I got the marriage certificate back today.

13th November 1904 East London Synagogue
Frank Joseph 33 bachelor, Ladies Tailor, 29 Artillery Lane, Father Joseph Joseph Deceased
Lavinia Fry 30 spinster, same address, Father Edward Fry Deceased

Witnesses Emanuel Rloot & E Staal

I've searched the census and not found anything regarding Lavinia's family, need her mother's name now!

I was also wondering whether to write to synagogue to get Marriage Authorisation Certificate and also to see if they have info regarding Lavinia converting, as I now think Ruth was her Jewish name and Lavinia her birth name (Lavinia is the name on all offical documents, marriage, births and her death certificate). So she may have converted when she was with Mr. Davis.

[Kerrywood]

Thanks for the update. The father's name is a surprise. :smile5:


I now think Ruth was her Jewish name
I believe Ruth (and Sarah) were quite common names to take on conversion.


I was also wondering whether to write to synagogue to get Marriage Authorisation Certificate and also to see if they have info regarding Lavinia converting

The East London Synagogue closed a long time ago. Details here ...
www.
jewishgen.org/jcr-uk/London/EE_eastlondon_utd/index.htm

To access the marriage authorisation and any records of conversion, you'll need to write to the Beth Din. Advice on how to proceed is given here ...
www.
british-jewry.org.uk/bethdin.html

You should be aware that obtaining marriage authorisations is rather slow and quite costly (£20), and the record is unlikely to give you the mother's name. For a sample of the sort of information you might get on the authorisation, please see this page ...
www.
jgsgb.org.uk/marriage-authorisations

That's not to say you shouldn't get it -- any piece of evidence might help. :smile5:

[lisacam68]

Thanks for that info.

I will write to Beth Din as I would like marriage authorisation and it might provide a little bit more info for me!

[lisacam68]

ref post #43

Just got Naturalization Certificate back for Lavinia, as she lost nationality when she married Joseph, and it states that she was born in Thatcham 6 February 1868 and her parents were George and Martha Fry! So don't know why it had Edward on her marriage certificate, maybe a middle name, who knows as they like to keep changing their names!

Thought I'd just update info!!

[Kerrywood]

Thought I'd just update info!!
Thanks for coming back with this. :smile5:


it states that she was born in Thatcham 6 February 1868 and her parents were George and Martha Fry!
Ah, good! A very useful find.


So don't know why it had Edward on her marriage certificate
As has often been said on these forums, fathers' names on marriage certificates can be unreliable, for all sorts of reasons. It could perhaps be connected with her former liaison with Mr DAVIS, which I believe is still unresolved?

Anyway, an excellent result all round, well done! :smile5:

[markfry]

hi,

I'm researching my family tree and i've found this thread. i've got a Lavinia fry she was one of 15 children her parents were george fry and martha davenport. i've got lots of information about the family but not much on Lavinia who was a surprise to me. i would be pleased to hear from you.
Mark Fry