Edward G DREW, Illogan Highway

[GeoffD]

My g-g-grandfather is proving elusive after the 1861 census. He was born abt.1812 in Gwennap, and married Maria ?? who, according to the census info, was born in Norwich, Norfolk. I am having a lot of trouble finding out any more about them from over here in Australia.

One son, Samuel DREW (my g-grandfather) was born in Illogan, and married Jane HARRIS of Illogan in abt.1866 - their first daughter was born in Maine, USA in 1867. I understand that marriage registers of the possible years of marriage have been lost in a fire or some such.

Another son, John, appears to have moved to London and I have been able to track his movements throgh census and marriage information.

It may be that Edward went to the USA with Samuel and Jane - there are any number of possible Edward G's in the records there.

One thing that I do know is that Samuel was a Methodist lay-preacher in America then later here in Australia.

Any help from Illogan or Cornwall locals would be much appreciated. Even a pointer in the right direction.

Thanks in advance.

Geoff

[rogerc]

Two thoughts -- first the birth cert for Samuel will have the maiden name of his Mother
and second i am surprised at the sugestion that marriage records are lost -- they should be held both locally and centrally - so would seem unlikley that both would be lost. Where have you tried so far to find the marriage?
Roger

[GeoffD]

I had only got as far as FreeBMD in my searching around for this Drew bunch. Haven't been able to convincingly identify Samuel's birth yet, so until I can get that done, I am a bit stuck (Samuel Drew is not an uncommon name down that way!).

Maybe I need to find the wherewithal to visit Cornwall.

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Hi Geoff,

If your Samuel was born before 1840, or you want to find out if he had any older siblings born before that year ..... and the forename of his Mother, this site below sells a Baptism CD for Illogan 1813-1840. They also have one for 1720-1812 but unfortunately, nothing for Gwennap as yet. If Samuel was born before 1840, his baptism date (if he was baptised of course!) would at least help you to track down which birth ref is a *possible*for him. Unless of course he was baptised when he was 3 or something!

http://www.parishchest.com/

[Geoffers]

I note that the 1861 census gives the ages of teh family as;

Edward 50
Maria, 59
John, 16
Samuel, 15

This means that Samuel is likely to have been one of the last to be born to the family. Have you tried earlier census returns for Illogan and the area? The 1851 census may show older children and their birth places - which will at least help to tie down the period in which your family lived in the area. The 1841 census, although giving less information, will at least show which of a group of people living in a household (who are likely to be related) were born in the county, or not. From there, you may begin to look in parish registers for baptisms and possibly a marriage. The ages of the couple means that they may have married prior to civil registration, so you won't find owt on freebmd. Similarly the birth of (all/some of) the children may not have been registered. But check the earlier census to get names and ages and then look in freebmd or 1837online in case the births were registered.

Geoffers

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

One son, Samuel DREW (my g-grandfather) was born in Illogan, and married Jane HARRIS of Illogan in abt.1866 Geoff
Hi again Geoff,
Just in case you don't know about this site (which is not a free one as FreeBMD) 1837online
you could search for a Samuel DREW marriage for a couple of years surrounding 1866, make a note of any ref you find, then search for a marriage of Jane HARRIS in the same quarter and year. Providing you get a matching ref for both of them ...... then you could order their marriage cert, if no luck with the OPC for Illogan.

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Hi again Geoff,
Please let me know if you've looked in the 1841 and 1851 Censuses? If you haven't, if you ask me nicely (seeing as it's you!) I'll see if I can find them for you (long trawling job, so you may be waiting some time) :D

[AnnB]

Hello Geoff

Just had a brainwave (I'm going to have a lie down in a minute ;) ) and looked at FreeCen for Edward in 1841 (Cornwall 1841 is almost complete on there). I found him, but I don't think it is going to be much help -

HO107/142 Enumeration District: 4
Civil Parish: Illogan
Folio: 8 Page: 9
Address: Illogan Highway

Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
DREW Edward M 31 Carpenter Cornwall
DREW Edward M 12 Carpenter Cornwall

Besy wishes
Ann

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Hi Geoff,
Thanks to Ann :) looking up the 1841 Census on FreeCEN, this gave me the ref so I had a look at mine from Archive CD Books, just because I am curious!

Everything is as Ann says, but FreeCEN have got the ref slightly wrong,the correct Ref is: HO107/142/7/9/9.

My 1841 is surname indexed so I had a look for Maria, but there are only two listed ...... one a child and the other aged 40 is in the same household as a Roger DREW in the Launceston area, (just guessing that he is her husband).

It looks as though your Maria was visiting out of County/missed completely on the Census/mistranscribed her forename. :(

I'll make a start on the 1851 Census ..... this is not indexed by name, so I will have to trawl it, so see you later!

[AnnB]

Hello Diane
Hope you read this before you start your trawl :) From Family History On Line

Parish Illogan Piece No 1915 Enumeration District 1e Folio 472 Schedule 116 Address Illogan Highway Name Edward DREW Rel HD Age 40 Sex M Occupation Master Carpenter Place of birth Gwennap, CON

This is just from the Cornwall FHS Index, but should point in the right direction (as long as it is more accurate that FreeCen ;) )

Best wishes
Ann

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Dear Ann,
Oooh, you are a treasure ....... looking after me as you do! :D Unfortunately, I've just seen your post on here now (haven't clicked on my mail for a while). I must confess that I had forgotten all about that site, even though it's bookmarked, I never thought to search there first! :(

Not to worry, I started trawling after dinner at 6.00p.m. and finished at 7.00p.m. (correct time) so I was lucky ...... although if I'd found them on the last page, I would be kicking myself now!

I was going to put this screenshot in with the transcription, but will put it here for you to have a look at ...... looks like Madrid to me!

http://uk.geocities.com/[email protected]/Drew.jpg

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Hi Geoff,
Here's your Census, I read Maria's name as Madrid ..... but that may be because I need new reading specs! :D

1851 Census Ref: HO107/1915/472/30 (from Gordon Beavington's CD)
Illogan, Highway

Edward DREW (40) Head Marr Carpenter Master b. Gwennap, Cornwall
Madrid/Maria (52) Wife Marr b. Norwich, Norfolk
John (6) Son Scholar b. Illogan, Cornwall
Samuel (5) Son Scholar b. Illogan, Cornwall

[AnnB]

Hello Diane
I think we've hi-jacked Geoff's post;)
I agree it looks like Madrid - but after the problems I've had with funny census results over the last week, I would only take it at face value and assume the enumerator went there for his holidays! (It's a long story, but I may post it in General Chatter at some point - so be warned :rolleyes: )
Best wishes and good night
Ann

[Geoffers]

I found him, but I don't think it is going to be much help -
Civil Parish: Illogan
DREW Edward M 31 Carpenter Cornwall
DREW Edward M 12 Carpenter Cornwall
Actually Ann, I think this may help Geoff a lot. Take at face value this is the correct Edward DREW and use as a working idea, that Edward aged 12 is his son. This means Edward senior was about 19 when Edward junior was born and thus limits the search period for a likely marriage to a very narrow period. To begin with, I think that Geoff should be looking at a marriage between 1827 and 1829. If he married then, he would be a minor, so a father/guardian may be mentioned in the marriage register entry. In the hope that Edward junior survived to 1851, finding him there will hopefully give a birthplace and there is a good chance that this is the parish where his parents married.

Geoffers

[GeoffD]

Thanks a lot for all your hard work. I had found the 1851 entry, but not the image. And from there I was able to track John's life better than Samuel's.

I had also seen the 1841 census, with the young Edward. I took this to be a nephew. I now think I've a birth for Samuel in the June Q 1845. Don't know where I read about the fire, I think it was on FreeBMD but the relevant pages are currently having server problems. I do know there is a big gap in 1864-1865 images there.

If gg-grandmother's given name was Madrid (which it certainly looks like), that should make her easier to find! I'll get onto that when I get home.

Anyhow, my point is that Edward seems to vanish after 1861 Census. There is nothing in the family oral history to suggest that he went to USA with Samuel and Jane, but there is always tha possibility. I do know that their first child was born in Maine in 1867.

Again, many thanks to you all. Don't worry about the hijack - I am learning all the time from you good folks about what other resources are out there. It looks as if I might be onto something, but that 1837Online requires a huge plug-in that will have to wait until I get home onto a broadband connection.

Maybe this is a topic for Grumpy Old Men - stuff that needs huge downloads instead of something that is already on your computer.

Geoff

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Hi Geoff,

Anyhow, my point is that Edward seems to vanish after 1861 Census.
Possibly, he died? No trace of Madrid/Maria either?

[GeoffD]

Possibly, he died? No trace of Madrid/Maria either?

I haven't been able to find a likely death for him, nor for Maria. Which is why I suspect they might have gone to USA. And I let my membership of a place that has all that American stuff lapse, didn't I, after finding the rest of the family's 1870 and 1880 census data.

And it is Maria - I have the 1861 census image on my laptop, and that is much easier to read. That 1851 effort is just somebody's odd 'fancy' handwriting, I'd say. Just think of the 'a' with a extra long upstroke and a bit of a curly 'lead-in'.

Again, thanks everybody for you attention and efforts. After all, my best oral information before researching was that Samuel's mother was Elizabeth Polkinghorne! (And don't get me started on Australian Death Certificates - so often, back in the colonial days, the informants were only guessing at the answers!)

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Hi Geoff,
Thanks to a telephone call from Myth :D I have to confess that I made a mistake when I gave you the ref for the 1841 Census. |blush|

I said it was: HO107/142/7/9/9 but the correct ref is: HO107/142/7/8/9. Page 9 is on the left hand side of the two page image and therefore is the 'reverse' side of page 8, making it folio 8 and not 9.

When I've stopped blushing in shame, I'd better pop over to Somerset County forum, as the 1841 look-ups I did for someone on there, are probably wrong too! |blush|

[Mythology]

At least you correctly gave the book number, as shown on the PRO reference slip, not the blasted useless Enumeration District number - I haven't bothered with FreeCEN myself, and I am appalled to find that they don't know how to give an 1841 census reference. Do they think that the PRO have HO107/142/7 on the slip, rather than just HO107/142, just for the fun of it?

Mind you, with some of the rubbish that is on FreeBMD (and I am *NOT* talking about transcriber error) it doesn't entirely surprise me.

[GeoffD]

Dinna fash yeseel, Diane. I've seen the 1841 census linked through Cornwall FHS anyway, so no worries.

But it is a problem, as Mythology says, and more so for us Colonials who are so far away and rely heavily on what we can find on the interwebthingy. Can't just pop down to the PRO, you know. Even more difficult when we are finding out just what info we can trust and what might be dodgy.

[GeoffD]

Using that pay-per-view site Diane mentioned, I found a likely marriage of Samuel Drew, Redruth District, Jun quarter 1865 (5 G 462). Looked up the Harris page for the same quarter, there was Jane |woohoo| but different certificate reference (5 C 398) |banghead| . Can that happen?

Went looking for grandparents' marriage. Would you believe it? On the whole page, grandmother's name was the only one that was unreadable.

Looks like it is back to browsing the register for Samuel and Jane when I get back on a faster connection.

[Mythology]

"Can that happen?"

Not unless there is actually an error in the index. The reference is to a page containing the *marriage record*, and there's only one record, so the reference is the same for both parties - and, of course, for other marriages which are on the same page.

Coincidences do occur which can lead you to think you've found the marriage when you haven't.
I have a Catherine Rebecca Poulter, not a name that crops up in every quarter, knew she'd married a John Marsh, guessed by the age of the eldest child that it would be around 1850, found a match on FreeBMD in a likely spot, verified it when I was at the FRC and intended to order the cert. Luckily, before I did so, I strolled upstairs and looked John up on the 1851 census. Oh yes, they are both in the same house, with John's elder brother, Matthew, whose wife was Catherine's aunt - but Catherine's still Poulter not Marsh, they are both still single!
A hasty trip back downstairs - found another matching reference later in 1851, not on FreeBMD, which was obviously their one!

[GeoffD]

I thought that would be the case.

It is just the coincidence of a Samuel Drew and a Jane Harris, both in Redruth district, getting married (but apparently not to each other) at about the time that my Samuel Drew and Jane Harris are likely to have married. As I said, it looks as if the search is back on. FreeBMD doesn't yet have 1864/65 searchable as far as I know. Unless of course Jane is a name she used and was buried under, and her real name was something else. Always possible - I have others that reinvented themselves in the Colonies.

[GeoffD]

Looks as if I'll just have to find a way to visit Cornwall. I've looked through marriage registers from early 1862 to mid-1867, and I cannot find a pairing of Samuel Drew and (female) Harris that match up to one certificate.

:confused:

Possibilities:
1) they never married.
2) they eloped and married in USA.
3) great grandmother wasn't Jane Harris after all.
4) great grandfather wasn't Samuel Drew after all.
5) they were who they said they were, got married, and never registered.
6) any other suggestions?

[GeoffD]

Just a quick revival of the thread. Went looking (via Ancesspool) for this lot in 1851. Nope - none of them in the index but using those valuable numbers posted earlier I was able to find the image quite easily. Now stored safely on my poota. Valuable lesson learned - indices are not to be trusted. So I'll be trawling the marriage registers on FreeBMD to see if I can track the elusive Sam Drew/Jane Harris marriage.

[ChristineR]

3) great grandmother wasn't Jane Harris after all.
6) any other suggestions?


A variation of No 3] Is it possible that Jane was a widow? or had a step-father's surname at time of marriage - thus not using Harris.

Christine

[GeoffD]

In 1861 she was still Jane Harris, living at home in Thomas Row, Illogan. I'm tending more towards the eloped to America scenario.

[GeoffD]

|woohoo|

Logged on to BG this morning, and there was a message waiting for me from a descendant of Edward G, one who actually knows what happened. And there was an e-mail for me as well, with lots of extra information. This really busts the brick wall into lots of little pieces.

Maria was the second wife! And there was another, older son, who died rather young, as well as the other Edward that showed up in the 1841 Census. Rather complicated. Suffice it to say that Maria is not the birth mother of John and Samuel (and Arnold). More details when I get it all straight in my head.

Oh, and the old bloke died in 1865, hence his disappearance from the 1871 Census. Buried without headstone in Illogan Parish church.

|hug| to my long-lost 3rd cousin who found me through BG, so I guess a big |hug| to Rod as well for being the 'conduit'.

[GeoffD]

Hello Geoff

Just had a brainwave (I'm going to have a lie down in a minute ;) ) and looked at FreeCen for Edward in 1841 (Cornwall 1841 is almost complete on there). I found him, but I don't think it is going to be much help -

HO107/142 Enumeration District: 4
Civil Parish: Illogan
Folio: 8 Page: 9
Address: Illogan Highway

Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
DREW Edward M 31 Carpenter Cornwall
DREW Edward M 12 Carpenter Cornwall

Besy wishes
Ann

Actually, that turned out to be the most interesting piece of information when the breakthrough was made.

So, what actually happened there in that little corner of Cornwall all those years ago? Seeing as how I had you all busily running about looking for stuff for me, I'd better let you know what I have discovered thanks to clues from a new BG-Forum member, my 3rd cousin Christine.

Edward George had an adolescent 'fling' with an older woman, originally identified by my informant as Mary Dingey. So the younger Edward George Drew in Ann's post was the son of the older Edward George Drew and Ms Dingey, who must have been about 42 when Edward Jr. was born (in Mylor Bridge). Zip forward to 1851, and Edward George Drew (son, boot and shoe maker) is living in Mylor with Elizabeth Dingey (head), 62, housekeeper, born Cornwall St. Clements, deaf.

Meanwhile back in Illogan in the years between 1841 and 1851, Edward Sr. has married Elizabeth Hocking, mine girl, and produced sons Arnold, John, and Samuel. Arnold dies of TB aged less than 7, then Elizabeth ups and dies in 1848 of "consumption" - either TB or pneumosilicosis. Edward Sr., not being one to sit around moping, marries Maria (that "Madrid" lady) Cornish (Widow of William Cornish, m. 1827) in 1850. Edward Sr, Elizabeth, and Arnold are all buried in Illogan Parish Church, without a headstone (must be a family thing - Samuel and Jane were also without a headstone for many years). Edward Sr died in 1865.

To be continued ...

[GeoffD]

Oddity - I know there are lots of Hocking names in Cornwall, but in 1851 the neighbour of Elizabeth Dingey and Edward Jr is - wait for it - William Hocking and his family!

Edward George Jr went on to lead a very fecund life in Mylor Bridge as a Sawyer with his wife Mary Ann Reid. They had a stack of kids, and it looks as if the older girls kept their grandfather's tradition going because as the census years roll on there are grandchildren with the Drew surname living with the family before the boys grow up and leave the nest. Edward Jr was still going strong in 1901, and in the absence of a credible death record I must assume that he is still in Mylor Bridge turning out children! (Just Joking).

So, not as ratbaggy as Mythology's lot, and all very honest about their foibles and diligent at the Registry. Now to chase the next generation of Edward G Jr.'s lot.

Now, something makes sense. My great aunt told my second cousin years ago that they didn't keep in touch with the Drew family 'back there' because 'there weren't many'. John had only one surviving child, and maybe it 'wasn't done' to talk about 'Uncle Edward', given his dodgy origins and Samuel's strong Methodism.

[GeoffD]

Could someone with knowledge of Mylor and surrounding areas please have a look at

HO107/138/10 Folio 12 Page 9

and decipher for me the place "Little Treg????" that appears there. I've been looking at maps of the area, but cannot find anything that looks likely, and the Place Names of 1841 Census offers Little Treague and Little Treagatreath as possibilities. Little Tregunwith doesn't look like what is written.

http://www.milsom.info/mylor/Places/PlaceNames.htm#1841

Many thanks

[AnnB]

Hello Geoff

I haven't looked at the ref. so can't give an opinion on the place name (and anyway, I'm not familier with the area), but wondered if you had seen the site at http://cornovia.org.uk/ which is wonderful for all things cornish - especially place names :) .

Best wishes
Ann

[GeoffD]

Thanks, Ann.

Still haven't tracked down the marriage for Samuel Drew and Jane Harris, but having fun finding all my 'new' cousins. My informant is not great on the poota, so I will be snail mailing her - she has info going backwards a few generations! What a ripper - and I suppose it isn't all THAT far from Hampshire to Cornwall if I ever get over there to visit. ;)

[christine woodford]

Elizabeth hocking `s Mother was called Grace and her Father was called John
he was a miner.

[GeoffD]

Were these Hockings from Illogan? There's an awful lot of John, Grace and Elizabeth Hocking names in the 1841 Cornwall census around places where the Drew men wandered - Illogan, Mylor etc.

Thank you Christine for all the wonderful information you have sent me over the past few days. (Everybody, allow me to introduce my third cousin - the second one to appear here. I have another who has posted in the Devon forums as "Cuddles".) I have just had e-mails from your cousin Graham and he will undoubtedly be getting in touch - he is thrilled because his Dad didn't talk much about the siblings.

[christine woodford]

Its almost unreadable but looks like Tregajorrau not Illogon

[GeoffD]

Tregajorran! Thanks for the clues which led me to more photos of Carn Brea and Carn Tregajorran. All in St Illogan Parish, according to the place names info from that link further back in this thread.

[GeoffD]

Not only do I have Edward George Drew 'sorted out', but I also have an Edward George Jr. and Edward George III to fill out the tree. Looks as if I might have some fairly close rellies with the DREW surname, but realistically there will be a lot more with other surnames.

[GeoffD]

Christine "lucked onto" an Australian local family history web page that has details of the family established in western Victoria by the son of Edward George's sister Harriett Hannah. A whole new slew of rellies to track down here in Oz. |hug|

[christine woodford]

I am glad you found another lead what a can of worms I have opened up for you. Hariett died april 17th Thursday 1860.aged 62years.
John Nichols died suddenly departure November 11th 1856.
I also have written down in Edwards book,
Uncle richard Tallack died February 9th 1851.

[GeoffD]

I am now wondering about these Tallack names. There was that Thomas Tallack DREW, Edward George and Harriet Hannah's big brother. That sort of suggests a TALLACK in the family somewhere back up the line a bit.

So many things to find out!

Something that is definitely odd, too. To have both a sister and a half-sister named Belinda.

(And thanks for that letter. Edward George was a complex person, it seems. Literate, but not all that literate.)

[GeoffD]

Not only has the brick wall come down, the garage has gone and the roof is coming adrift! Actively sought out some 'contenders' in GR, and now I'm convinced I'm related to most of the population of the pointy bit of Cornwall, and especially to just about everybody that ever lived in Mousehole. That includes having a member of the Mousehole/Paul PENTREATH family as a 'spouse of'. (How about that, Cornish language afficionados?)

Multiple marriages, lots of children: however, I've yet to get in contact with anyone who actually has DREW as a surname, but that will come with time. And I've got a few more feelers out.

The two Belinda half sisters mystery has been sorted - the first one died before the second one was born.

The Tallack problem is also solved - there were two different Bennett Drew males of slightly different vintage, both married to a Jennifer. The direct line one was actually married to Jennifer TALLACK, not Jennifer WILLIAMS.
----------------------------------------------
And they are coming in at a great rate! A whole lot more in emails yesterday and this morning. And still nobody with a Drew surname.

[GeoffD]

Still haven't tracked down the marriage for Samuel Drew and Jane Harris although I think I might be onto something. Redruth, June Quarter 1865 has both a Samuel Drew and a Jane Harris, but the page number for Jane Harris is illegible. However, what you can see of the page number does not look much like page 462 that is clearly visible for Samuel.

And the plot is thickening! I have access to a written record that Samuel left for foreign shores on 7 April 1867, and I knew those foreign shores were the USofA. Thanks to Ancestry's recent opening of the Immigration files for US, I have discovered that the "North American" arrived in Portland & Falmouth, Maine from Liverpool on 26 April 1867, and that Samuel and Jane Drew were on board. They are described thus:
Samuel Drew, 22, m, miner
Jane Drew, 21, f, spinster.

Curious, indeed. The ages are correct, and a 19 day voyage sounds feasible. But Samuel was a carpenter, not a miner. Jane would have been visibly pregnant with their first child, I reckon, yet the passenger list appears to suggest that they travelled as brother and sister, not as husband and wife.

I need to get into the Maine birth records for 1867, I think. And fork out for the certificate for Samuel, on the off-chance that it is him. Pity you cannot see some of the detail before you click the button to order from GRO.

[GeoffD]

Edward George Jr went on to lead a very fecund life in Mylor Bridge as a Sawyer with his wife Mary Ann Reid. They had a stack of kids, and it looks as if the older girls kept their grandfather's tradition going because as the census years roll on there are grandchildren with the Drew surname living with the family before the boys grow up and leave the nest. Edward Jr was still going strong in 1901, and in the absence of a credible death record I must assume that he is still in Mylor Bridge turning out children! (Just Joking).

It was the first daughter that had a couple of "whoopsies" to produce those stray grandchildren. Birth certificates have arrived - very quick and efficient service from the GRO/ONS to us Colonials, I must say.

[GeoffD]

An email this morning from a descendant of Edward George Drew III! He found me by Googling up this thead.

Ain't the electric interweb marvellous?