ABRAHAM COHEN DE LARA d 1829 London

[phillip]

As a follow up to the research on my Isaac Crawcour/Simha Cohen De Lara lines I am interested in discovering data on Abraham Cohen De Lara father of Simha. In addition, I am interested to discover why a Sepahardi family ( Simha) married into a Ashkenazi family ( Isaac). These inter marriages were rare but not unusual and there was folk history that the Crawcour origins were originally Sephardi however all data from synagogue records in the UK indicates Ashkenazi dominance.
The Colyer Ferguson PCC Will summary from the Society of Genealogists has Abraham Cohen De Lara will 1830 of Batty St Commercial Road ( Abraham died 1829 and is buried in the Novo Cemetry - see Jewish Gen records).
He left bequests to his wife Mary ( Miriam) and to his daughter Simha wife of Isaac Crawcour and their 8 children. Bequests were also left to Ann wife of David Davis; grandaughter Dinah wife of Moses Barnett; grandaughter Maria dau of Joseoph and Johebeth Joseph;niece Jael Coronel wife of Isaac Sebag;nephews Moses,Jacob,Aaron Coronel plus a bequest to the Portuguese Synagogue.
Abraham's sister was Clara b 1762 who married Jacob 'Moses' Coronel in 1783.

Any data on Abraham's parents plus his trade/family welcome.
Phillip

[midelara]

Hi-I am looking for the ascendants of David Laurant. Did he have siblings? parents?. I have corresponded with Pat, but need to work backwards. I have all his descendants.

Hope you will help

Mike de Lara

[phillip]

Mike
I have begun to look at any data on David Laurent Cohen De Lara and given his birth in Amsterdam have been looking on the Avekoth Dutch Ashkenazi site where there are numbers of De Lara recorded. In addition, the Jewish Encyclopedia has data on Abraham Cohen De Lara Hazzan of the Spanish/Portuguese community and lexicographer in Amsterdam during the late 1600s plus David Cohen de Lara ba bt 1602-1694 son of Isaac of Amsterdam. There is also data on David Cohen de Lara died 1785 married 1768 Bevis Marks to Clara Belinfante with children Rebecca and Abraham. Ancestry Com have a family tree with the marriage of David to Sarah 8 Dec 1828- I have yet to locate the record which should have his father's name.
As an aside I noted the serious issues David had with his son Alfred and his wife. There are a range of newspaper accounts of Alfred including his use of alias and his possible death in 1886. The Morning Post Sat May 22 1875 includes the account of Dr David Laurent de Lara an artist of 3 Torrington Square having to pay 15 shillings a week for the maintenance of his 5 grandchildren who were destitute because their father was in prison for fraud and their mother in the Fulham Refuge Prison for swindling. Alfred had received a 5 year sentence for fraud..
I will continue researching. Do you have any clues yourself regarding David and his origins?
Phillip

[phillip]

Mike
London Marriages and Banns 1754-1921 has a record ( Bann) for David de Lara batchelor and Sarah Crawcour spinster Church bann Paddington Middx 8 Dec 1828. Can't see a marriage record and wonder if they also married in a Jewish ceremony.
Probate- David Laurent de Lara late of 3 Torrington Square Middx art publisher died at same address 15 Dec 1876. Effects under £800. Proved by Phineas Abrahams 25 Alfred St Bedford Square one of the executors.
Phillip

[midelara]

Thanks for coming back.
David was a bit of a "wide boy". He invented a self sealing wax, and his eldest son David b 1829 died in a wax fire in his house 12-1-1841. He went bankrupt in 1842.

He became an illuminator, and presented an illuminated calander to the Queen, thereafter describing himself as illuminator to the Queen, no doubt to get patronage-mainly from the Duchess of Devonshire. The Lord Chamberlains office has confirmed he never held the Royal Warrant. Alfred became manager of the Illuminating Arts Institute founded by David in 1857(census 1871-5 years before David died)so relations could not have been too bad. I have the tree of about half the Lara's in Holland, but very thin on detail so impossible to link up. I must get to Amsterdam. The Sephardi were very strict on mixed marriages, and they did not allow them until Moses Lara, the last of the traditionalists on the Board of Deputies died in 1837. Explains why they were not married in a synagogue.

[phillip]

Have you checked the Colyer Fergusson and Hyamson Anglo Jewish records for the lines. I did a very quick look some 3-4 years ago at the Society of Genealogists London and made copies of various De Lara/Lara PCC Will extracts - these were sent to Synagogogue Scribes but did not look in any detail at family trees.
As you know Isaac Crawcour and Simha were married by licence 5 July 1797- Whitechapel, Tower Hamlets

Is Alfred de Lara Belmonte of 51 Ryde Villas Teddington who died in 1886 the son of David and Sarah? I have access to the British Newspaper Archives from 1800 so have seen a range of articles on David and Alfred.
Phillip

[midelara]

Forgot to mention that David was in a partnership with henry cracouw, and the London gazette records it was disolved in 1858.

I have picked up Clara and Jacob from the Bevis Marks Marriage records.

Clara is Clara de Jacob and Jacob is Jacob de Moseh Senior, so we have both their fathers names.Mike

[phillip]

Mike
I know you have been in contact with Petra Laidlaw regarding the De Lara lines. Petra has just been confirming various Crawcour and De Lara data. She asked the question are the Cohen De Lara and Nunes De Lara related. Do you know the answer? You didn't answer my question regarding Alfred and his use of alias - would appreciate it if you can confirm whether he is the Belamonte who died of a stroke.
I knew about Henry Crawcour and David Laurent Cohen De Lara partnership. I have done a lot more Crawcour and collaterals research but have not been in contact with Pat for a couple of years and don't post all the data I hold.
Phillip

[midelara]

Forgot to mention that David was in a partnership with henry cracouw, and the London gazette records it was disolved in 1858.

I have picked up Clara and Jacob from the Bevis Marks Marriage records.

Clara is Clara de Jacob and Jacob is Jacob de Moseh Senior, so we have both their fathers names.Mike

Sorry to be so long coming back.
In my Dutch tree I have Ester Senior Coronel m a C de L abt 1820, and Isaac Senior Coronel m a C de L abt 1720. I sugest name so unusual that probably all same family.

Nunes and all its variations is an old spanish name, and does not have the religious connections that Cohen has. The Nunes in London are all descended from Clara who came to this country from Portugal with 13 children, to escape the Inquisition. They only had the clothes they wore and Bevis Marks supported them in the early days. 2 of her descendants married into the Disraeli family so they did well.
They are are seperate branch to the C de L although I suspect they are all descended from David C de L, a spanish booksellar who moved to Portugal, then Holland, and his descendants then London. No evidence, but it is beginning to point that way.The only other Lara's in UK are based in Southampton and are descended from Andrew who came from Scicily, an ex spanish colony.Have not forgotten Belmonte. I recognise the name but am searching through the data. Will get back to you

Mike

[HelenJP]

Hello
Thank you for all the useful information I have already found on this forum thread - Phillip, you have done much better than me at deciphering Abraham's will!
Do any of you have information on Anna de Lara's son David? He is living with his mother on the census of 1871, but by 1881 I believe he was living with his father's family. Adelina de Lara doesn't mention him at all in her (heavily self-edited) autobiography. Also, I wonder if Anna de Lara and George Tilbury/Preston were ever married? His wife seems to be alive and living with their children in April 1871, only a few months before Adelina's birth.
I also am trying to trace the de Lara and Crawcour families back before 1800. I've just started looking at online Dutch records, but not helped by the repetition of names from one generation to another.
Did Abraham Cohen de Lara marry twice? On Ancestry I've found a Lea Pareira de Costa (m 1763) and Mary Janes (m1823) as wives of Abraham Cohen de Lara. I can't find a census record for David Laurent and Sarah Abigail de Lara for 1851, but there is a Sarah Lara living with a Rachel Pareira - may just be a coincidence.
Many thanks for your help,

Helen

[phillip]

Helen
I will post on the De Lara/Crawcour connections and try and answer your queries but just to confirm that I hold family trees plus significant other records on the Crawcour ( I descend from Isaac of Kracow my 6x great grandfather and his son Samuel Crawcour 1748-1816 my 5x great grandfather). The data on these lines indicate that Samuel Crawcour ( including his newspaper advertisements plus the birth of his children) indicate that he was in England circa 1760s-1770s. He claimed he was from Hanover in an early advertisement but this maybe for trade reasons and where he was an apothecary/surgeon dentist.
Phillip

[phillip]

Helen
Here is the 1851 British Census record for David Laurent (De Lara Cohen) and Sarah aka Simha. You won't find it under De Lara or Lara and the last name spelling transcription by Ancestry.Com is LAURANT and first name is not David but a complete transcription error.
3 Alfred Place St Giles in the Field (Crown Copyright,TNA) ho107 1509 54 38
David Laurant H M 45 Iluminating artist and Lithographic ? b Amsterdam
Sarah wife 30 b Middlesex London
Semirah dau u 20 b Middx London
Alfred son u 17 b Middx London
Rachel dau u 14 b Middx London
Anne dau u 12 Pianista and singer b Middx London
Hannah dau u 6 b Middx London
+1 servant and 1 lodger?

See also JewishGen UK Data base for a range of references to the De Lara last names plus also David Laurant ( De Lara Cohen) in the 1851 Census record ID 30496 and his wife and children

I will post more data.
Phillip

[HelenJP]

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly Phillip. My husband (also Philip!) is one of Adelina de Lara's great grandchildren. I started doing research on all our families about 4 years ago but gave it up as it was taking up too much of my time! But I've subscribed again to Ancestry.co.uk and have definitely got the bug again. My problem with Ancestry is whether to trust the hints from other people without checking them or not, as I have gone down the wrong path myself a couple of times.
The de Laras/Crawcours are a fascinating bunch. My husband didn't realise the strong Jewish links in the family and is particularly interested in the Spanish/Portuguese connections as he lived in both countries when growing up.
Looking forward to hearing from you,
Helen

[HelenJP]

Liwielde? No wonder I couldn't find them....

[phillip]

Helen.
I wouldn't trust most of the family trees online which is why I post so much data. From my numerous posts you can see that I have amassed a huge amount of data on the Crawcour and related lines over many years. I hold significant numbers of Crawcour records collated over the years including GRO Records; family trees; wills etc.
Will post more on George Matthew Tilbury aka Preston including his first marriage to Ann Newell Fulton but have not seen any record of a second marriage and you have to ask the question why did he change his surname bearing in mind he had at least 3 sons from his first marriage- Frank W;Percy A; Rodney G and in 1871 was a boarder but married in Staffordshire- looks as if he may have been travelling around selling engravings.

As for the Crawcour lines Samuel was from Kracow hence the last name derivation.
Very difficult to trace them back further because of no data pre Samuel in UK other than he said he had come from Hanover and nothing about his father Isaac or who his mother was.
Phillip

[phillip]

Helen
Here are the beginnings of data ( some of which you will already know) which relates to Adelina De Lara aka Preston and her half siblings on her father's line.
I will start with George Matthew Tilbury aka Preston and his family from his marriage to Ann Newell Fulton.
The GRO Marriage Record Index shows George Matthew Tilbury- Ann Newell Fulton Southampton 2c 65 Dec qtr 1857. The family appear in the 1861 Census ( Crown Copyright,TNA) RG977 114 3 0 -30 Adam Street St.Marylebone Middx
George M TILBURY H M 25 Heraldic engraver b Hampshire Southampton; Ann N Wife 24 b Gloucestershire Camden?; Frank W son 3 b Hampshire Southampton; Percy A son 1 b Middx Pimlico; Rodney G son 1 mth b Middx Marylebone

It looks as if the family split up and George and Ann separated because Ann appears to be recorded as a widow in 1871 Census but George is a lodger in Southampton. The family have also adopted the PRESTON surname for whatever reason.
1871 Census ( Crown Copyright,TNA) RG10 2867 54 5 - Roebuck Inn Shelton Staffs
George PRESTON 32 M Lodger Engraver b Hants Southampton

1871 Census ( Crown Copyright,TNA) RG10 4044 101 12 -126 Red Barr Road? Manchester
Ann Newell PRESTON Lodger Widow 33 Engraver Wife b Gloucester Camden; Frank son 14 Engraver son b Southampton; Percy Augustus son 11 Engraver son b London Pimlico;Rodney George son 10 b London

Will post further and note that Percy was in prison on several occasions later in life.

Phillip

[phillip]

Helen
It is proving difficult tracking down the Tilbury aka Preston lines because of some name changes but will post the following data:
By 1881 George Matthew Tilbury aka Preston was living with Ann Lawrence nee De Lara. She appeared in the 1871 Census with her parents and her children- 3 Torrington Square St George Bloomsbury RG10 339 4 1 (Crown Copyright,TNA)
David Laurant De Lara H M 64 Illuminating artist b Amsterdam Holland; Sarah wife 65 b London; Annie LAWRENCE widow daughter 31 Musician b London; Sarah dau 12 b London; David son 9 b London; Penelope dau 4 b London +1 servant

1881 Census
73 Spring Hill Birmingham Warwickshire (Crown Copyright,TNA) RG11 3004 104 13
George PRESTON H M Engraver b Hants Southampton; Anna wife 39 Professor of Music b Middx London; Helen dau u 20 Engraver b Middx London; Penelope dau u 14 Engraver b Middx London; LOTTIE dau 8 b Cumberland Carlisle

GRO Birth Index Lottie Adelina PRESTON Jan qtr 1872 Carlisle 10b 451

Marriage of Anne De Lara to Joseph LAWRENCE
19 May 1857 Parish of St.George Bloomsbury
Joseph LAWRENCE full age bachelor Gentleman Bedford St Bedford Row -father John Lawrence Gentleman
Anne De LARA full age spinster No occupation Parish of St George Bloomsbury -father David De Lara Gentleman
Witnesses- Charles George Brett; Rachel De Lara; Charles Richards

Here is data on Percy Augustus TILBURY aka PRESTON aka George Preston- the Prison Records indicate he used both names plus the alias of George Preston:
West Yorkshire Prison Records
Percy Tilbury or Preston 8 Oct 1884 Drunk and riotous 14 days or pay 19/6- Age 25 Height 5 feet 3 and a half inches Dark brown hair; cut on forehaed and left side of nose; crooked nose Religion Church London Labourer Previous convictions 3 Discharged Oct 21; He was in trouble 2 March 1887 Percy Tilbury or George Preston 7 days ar 17s Hawker drunk and disorderly Been in Hull Prison; in 1902 HMP Wakefield Percy Tilbury unlicensed hawker Committed Donacster age 43 b Pimlico London

Percy appears in the 1901 Census 33 Waterside North St St.Swithin Lincolnshire ( Crown Copyright,TNA) RG13 3065 32 18
Percy Tilbury visitor s 41 Pedlar Hawker b Pimlico

This maybe his death index record Percy Tilbury March qtr 1925 b abt 1860 Age 65 Beverley Yorkshire 9d 123 but certificate would be required for confirmation.

Will add further data as it emerges.
Phillip

[HelenJP]

Wow! Very comprehensive. I had some of this information already but very pleased to have it confirmed.

I had run into the same problems with the Tilbury/Preston name changes. The multiple possibilities of Lawrence/Laurence for Anna's first husband and their children are another spanner in the works.

David, Anna's son from her first marriage, doesn't get a mention at all from Adelina, which I find rather odd. Laurence/Lawrence aren't exactly rare names, so chasing the connection had proved difficult. He was born in about 1860 and is with his mother in the 1861 and 1871 censuses. I have found the following, which could be him in 1881:
Class: RG11; Piece: 830; Folio: 84; Page: 26; GSU roll: 1341196
David Laurence - 20 years - b. Euston Road, London - Nephew - Commercial Clerk - 300 Woodborough Villa, Wimbledon
Head of household - Charles Laurence - 41 years - b. Grantham, Lincolnshire - Army agent
David's father, Joseph, was born in Grantham about 1833 and had a brother called Charles b. about 1840 (1841 census, Class: HO107; Piece: 625; Book: 1; Civil Parish: Grantham; County: Lincolnshire; Enumeration District: 2; Folio: 27; Page: 2; Line: 9; GSU roll: 438760)

I haven't confirmed Joseph Laurence's death either. There is a Parish record in Grantham of a burial 16 May 1870 of Joseph Lawrence b.1833. In the 1861 census he is a Commission agent. He and Anna married in 1857, when Anna was 18.

If Adelina was born in January 1872 and the census was taken in April 1871, Anna and George must have already known each other. Given that George's first wife (who uses 3 surnames!) was still alive in 1871, no wonder there is no marriage record for Anna and George.

Adelina did know a half-brother from her father's side, Rodney George Tilbury Preston - he was an actor and took the stage name George de Lara.

Adelina says "My parents had each been married before. My father...already had one son...My mother already had two daughters...It appears that [my mother] spoiled a brilliant career by running away from home when sixteen, to marry a solicitor named Laurence. It ended in disaster, for he took to drink, treated her badly and finally left her destitute... How my parents met I do not know." So no mention of her father's and mother's other children.

In 1883 "My father's son, George de Lara, known later as a comedian, a composer of light songs and a producer, also lived with us...I do not remember him very well in those days, although in his old age he lived with me." George died in 1953.

I can scan and send you the relevant pages from Adelina's story if you're interested.

Helen

[phillip]

Helen
I had spotted the 1881 Census for David Lawrence and also noted that Percy Augustus Tilbury married- See GRO Marriage Index Sept qtr 1878 Sheffield 9c 482- he married either Ellen Waldron or Sarah Elizabeth Davidson or Davison providing he is the right Percy. The 1901 Census shows him as single as previously posted on and his prison record does not suggest a lasting marriage.

Many thanks for your kind offer regarding the Adelina De Lara book sections- I did read her book and in particular her reference to the Cracour Austrian military link so far unsubstantiated but I also noted a very similar reference to Lord Peter Mandelson's Jewish Austrian military roots and his family does connect through marriage to my Courlander/Hart relatives.

I will send you various records and other data - please see my private e mail message.
Phillip

[phillip]

Helen
I received some data from Rick another researcher who kindly sent early records information on Lara Jacob Cohen. Rick, if you are reading this post my thanks for the data- I tried to respond to your private message but could not do so ( appears to be an error).
The data taken from A Complete Guide to all persons who have any trade or concern with the City of London, and parts adjacent" 1752- Lara-Jacob Cohen Gulston Square Whitechapel; Henry Kents Directory 1759 Lara Jacob Cohen 25 Gulston Square and same address in 1763 and in 1767.

I have been looking at snippets on Google Books and noted references to various Cohen de Lara-

The Bevis Marks Records; The Circumcision Register of Isaac and Abraham de Paiba 1715-1775 Spanish and Portuguese Jews
Congregation London England Lionel David Barnett,Publisher University Press 1991
There are other Bevis Marks records for the last name. I don't have access to the records but may try, as I have previously done, to get them from my local library through a British Library request.

In the meantime, I noted that Percy Tilbury was in court in 1909 and listed as a Hawker pedlar- he does not appear to have had an easy life!
As for David Cohen De Lara here are records from The London Gazette:
Bankrupt 13 Sept 1842
David de Lara formerly of 6 Suffolk Street Cannon Street,Commercial Road St George's East then of 21 Mount Street Whitechapel afterwards 170 Bishopsgate Street carrying on business at the same time at 67 Houndsditch London afterwards renting a shop at 63 New Bond Street Middlesex at the same period my family lodgings at 21 Gilbert Street Grosvenor Square also residing at the same time and late of 67 Houndsditch City of London- Stationer and Sealing wax manufacturer
Partnership Dissolved
The London Gazette 13 April 1838 Henry Crawcour and David de Lara Stationers 21 Mount Street Whitechapel Road
Partnership Dissolved 6 Dec 1845 - David de Lara and Joseph Fleming Lithographic and Chromographic Artists and Publishers Salters Hall Court London

Patent- David de Lara of Suffolk Place Pall Mall and Henry Thomas Sewell of Gerrard St Soho Middx "an apparatus for preventing injury to vessels in collision at sea"

I also noted reference in various publications to David Cohen de Lara abt 1602-1764 lexicographer, writer and Hamam born Lisbon? died Hamburg. Have not looked in any detail at David Cohen de Lara's ancestry.

Phillip

[Deeny]

I have an interest in the Cohen De Lara surname as my husband's paternal Jewish family who have been permanently resident in England since the 1780's, have an oral tradition of being Cohen de Lara. Whilst Y-line DNA testing has proven that my husband has the Cohanim haplotype, I have yet to find written evidence that his paternal ancestors used any other surname than Cohen, although I understand that some of the London based Spanish and Portuguese Jews were known by their Spanish surnames for secular purposes but reverted to their purely Jewish surnames at Bevis Marks.

My husband's Cohen family married into the Buzaglo clan who had documented links to Aaron and Abraham Cohen De Lara in Amsterdam in the 1770's. They also had strong links to Morocco where a branch of the Cohen De Lara family was resident in Morocco at Mogador, now known as Essaouria during the late 1700's, trading as merchants. In "La communaute juive de Mogador - Essaouria" by Sidney Corcos they were listed amongst the ten most prominent families of Jewish Merchants appointed by the Sultan after the port was opened in 1764.

According to "The Sultan's Jew: Morocco and the Sephardi World" by Daniel Schroeter, when bubonic plague swept across Morocco in 1799, a number of the foremost merchants of Mogador decided to leave the city with their families, taking advantage of the less rigorous overseeing of the harbour by port officials. A merchant identified as M. Cohen De Lara left Essaouria, in the summer of 1799 and 'the two Cohen de Lara brothers' (presumably sons of M, who I am assuming may be Moses and possibly the Moses of my husband's family whose son Samuel married Rachel Buzaglo at Bevis Marks in 1779) left Morocco later in September, with one going to Gibraltar and the other to London.

Recent personal correspondence with Sidney Corcos, who is a third cousin of my husband through the Montefiore family, has revealed that his family papers name the merchant member of the Cohen De Lara family active in Modagor / Essaouria at the very end of the C18th as Abraham, who is thought to have fled to London.

The earliest public record (National Archives) in England I've seen for someone called Cohen de Lara is for a court case in 1746 of which Jacob Cohen de Lara, a merchant of London, is a plaintiff and Henry Foskett is the defendant. This ties in with the references from the trade directories which show Jacob Cohen De Lara living in London at Gulston Square between 1752 and 1757.

Christine

[helachau]

Re. the info provided via PM I omitted to include (apologies!) -

"Names and descriptions of the proprietors of unclaimed dividends on Bank Stock, and on the public funds - unpaid at 21 Oct 1791" - author The Bank of England. There were 2 publications in 1791. The first included -
Aron Cohen de Lara of Amsterdam, date when 1st dividend became payable Jan 1784, No. of dividends due 16

The second included -

Rachel Cohen de Lara, widow of Aron Cohen de Lara, of Amsterdam, became payable July 1760, No. held 1.

Re David Cohen de Lara, Lexicographer of Hamburg (published main work 1638?), there is an item in the Jewish Messenger 1872-1875, available at New York Newspapers on line

[kevininlondon]

In recent posts.. people have commented on mixed marriages (sephardi and Askenazi) and real mixed marriages.. plus weddings..

Firstly Weddings, a Synagogue is not a holy building like a church so there is no requirement to get married in one.. in Israel it does not happen.. that being said people did and do use them for marriages.. from a practical viewpoint.. maybe the cant hire a hall large enough, maybe the hall is not Kosher.. My daughter Kate got married 4 years ago at the main Ashkenazi Synagogue which is at Marble Arch... reason the party at the Berkeley was not Kosher, then my other daughter Jen got married a year ago at a Venue, A giant tent 250 people.. it was Kosher..

Ashkenazi and Sephardi did intermarry.. the community in the 1700's early 1800's was small and in my own family I know three times they sent to Holland for young Jewish Males.. I thinkthe size of the community was a problem and I think it led to marrying out to non Jews and or converts..

Someone I believe mentioned about forerbears being Ashkenazi but hoping they were Sephardi..

My grandmother insisted we were Portuguese.. but her Asher mother and Hart Grandmother would indicate the reverse, and the fact they were married in the Gt Synagogue confirmed Askenaz. But in all cases the boys had Sephardi mothers.. and Sephardi grandmothers.. so though they were considered Ashkenaz because of their fathers, in most cases they were 75% Sephardi

Nope the real problem came with mass immmigration from Eastern Europe from small towns and villages of Jews, escaping Pogroms.. these in the main were religeous and very narrow minded.. The English Jews thought they were peasants and tried to have them banned from Entry.(we are nice)
They in turn did not think neither the German Ashkenaz nor the Sephardi were really Jewish and insisted on setting up their own small Shuls.

In New York the east europeans asked the Mayor why he had settled them amidst the Turks who gambled, smoked and drank etc.. It turned out they were referring to Jews who had come from Turkey and its empire.. ladino speaking Sephardim... and that is a true story..

Whilst I am not by any means an expert like some members here, I do know history and I know my People

[Deeny]

Kevin,

Benjamin Cohen (possibly De Lara) and Rachel Montefiore were married at her mother's house, which is stated on their secular marriage certificate, along with the rider that the ceremony was performed under the direction of the S & P Synagogue. When I purchased a copy of their divorce papers (1884-86) from National Archives it included a copy of their Jewish marriage certificate from Bevis Marks. I don't know if these are common but I've never heard anybody mention them.

Christine

[kevininlondon]

Hi Christine
As you say they were not married in the synagogue .. but they someone from a synagogue to record the marriage,, for example when my daughter got married last year out at Tewinbury farm, the secretary of the synagogue not only recorded the marriage but acted as a Registrar.. meaning we did not have to run to the council offices to register the marriage..

Marriage certificates.. all marriages are registered , and this is what a marriage certificate is, a record of said event. However in Judaism we also have the ketuba (marriage contract) which normally resides with the brides mother.

As the Rav famously said to the bridegroom 'dont read the Ketuba, for a happy marriage . treat her like a princess, buy her a present every day... I added just say yes

[Deeny]

Kevin,

The printed Certificate of Marriage from Bevis Marks that was provided for the divorce, is 8 inches by 7 inches and merely records the date the marriage took place, with no other details. It seems to be more of a legal certificate to support evidence of a record in the Register of Marriages of Bevis Marks.

The divorce papers have no mention of the Ketubot. I am familiar with printed Ketubot Abstracts, but other than the names of the principle parties (Bride, Groom and their respective fathers) would there be any other information in a Ketubot that would be of genealogical value? If so, can copies of the originals be obtained?

Christine

[kevininlondon]

Hi Christine

Whilst I sometimes come across as slightly flippant it is not meant.. all these things are very real and very close to me..

I know that Bevis Marks holds a number of Ketubot probably given for safe keeping, I am sure others will say otherwise and ofcourse depending on the tradition in the community it would normally be kept by the brides family.. (insurance policy) Every marriage had to have one.. no matter local laws. how ever I think all you are going to see at most is the records of the synagogue. In my case I have a copy of my Great Grandmothers Ketuba from 1890 but thats it.
k

[phillip]

Christine
I hold copies of Marriage Authorisations as well as ketubah (Ashkenazi) and as Kevin says and you are also aware the data varies in terms of information. Later Marriage Authorisations can contain important data including the names and addresses of the bride and groom as well as where they were born; previous marriages and other information. Ketubah records tended not to be retained by the Synagogue until the latter part of the 18th C and often the names of the bride and groom are all that appear.
You can obtain copies of Ketubah from Bevis Marks on application and I would also request confirmation if they also hold Marriage Authorisation for the couple you are seeking.
Phillip

[phillip]

Christine and others
See two useful guides on Jewish Marriages- Jewish Genealogical Society of Great Britain.Tracing Jewish Roots.Tips for finding Marriage Documents from Jewish Marriages in England compiled by Laurence Harris ( online); British Jewry Data base. Jewish Marriage Authorisations (online). There are many other sources but these two are basic useful guides.
Phillip

[kevininlondon]

Thanks as always Phillip.. Christine 'authorisation' as in do they meet the religeous criteria (as in how Jewish are you), this just by the by has caused problems in the past and still causes problems today here in the UK

k

[phillip]

Abraham Cohen De Lara died 1829 was married twice- his first wife Miriam died 1822 See Bevis Marks Burial Records Miriam Cohen De Lara 22 October 1822.
Abraham then re- married in 1823- London Marriages and Banns - St.George in the East Tower Hamlets
ABRAHAM COHEN DE LARA widower of this Parish - MARY JONES of the Parish of St.Dunstan Stepney a widow married at St George by licence 22 June 1823. Both groom and bride signed their names ( source Ancestry.Com Records)

There is also the strong possibility that the Ann DAVIS nee CRAWCOUR named by Aaron Cohen De Lara as his grand daughter in his will signed in 1824 and referred to as the wife of David Davis is Ann DAVIES wife of David DAVIES.
If confirmed, their son Maurice Davies married Amelia Hart daughter of John Hart and Elizabeth Jacobs ( Elizabeth Jacobs was the daughter of Henry Jacobs/Kitty Moses). John Davies brother of Maurice married Isabella Russell daughter of Henry Russell ( who was later to marry Hannah De Lara) and Isabella Lloyd. As posted in earlier threads the Russell/Hart/Jacobs/Crawcour/Levy relate through further marriages.
I will post further if further research identifies new data.

Phillip

[phillip]

In the previous post I referred to the relationship which might exist between the Crawcour/Hart/Davies/Russell through the marriage of Amelia Hart to Maurice Davies and through the marriage of David Davis aka Davies to Ann.
In this post I will provide data to confirm that David Davis aka Davies was married to Ann Crawcour.
The Law Report 1861-62 (online record) in the trial of Davis v Angel referred to the will of Moses Crawcour who died in 1858 ( his will extract appears in the Synagogue Scribes data base. In his will Moses Crawcour appointed Mose Angel Headmaster of the Jews' Free School as one of his executors. Moses Angel had married Rebecca Godfrey who was the daughter of Godfrey Levy aka Levy Godfrey aka Godfrey Godfrey and Sarah Crawcour - see thread Sarah Crawcour-Godfrey Levy... on this Forum.

In the court case reference was made to the dispute involving John Davis aka Isaac and Moses Angel as one of the executors of Moses Crawcour will. During the trial the judges heard that.." Moses Crawcour in his will dated the 15 September 1854, divided his residuary estate into fifteen parts, and directed that one of such parts should be held in trust for " my nephew Isaac Davis, son of David and Ann Davis, in case he should marry my niece Esther Godfrey"......"I. Davis was a bachelor when the testator made his will. On the 13 June 1857 in the lifetime of the testator, he married Isabella Russell... the testator's niece, Esther Godfrey was still living and a spinster."

This data confirms that David Davis aka Davies was married to Ann Crawcour and that Isaac Davis aka Davies was John Davies who married Isabella Russell daughter of Henry Russell and Isabella Lloyd. Henry Russell was later to marry Hannah De Lara whose mother was also a Crawcour - see post on Henry Russell and Hannah De Lara on this forum.
Phillip