ILLEGITIMATE OR NOT ???

[Peter Minter]

I have a problem with a couple of my Grandmother;s certificates.....So could anyone tell me what approach i can take on this please?

Birth Certificate of Dorothy Lydia Skinner on 26-08-17 (Peckham), shows father unnamed.Mother Alice Skinner.
Her Marriage certificate in 1958 states her father as Charles Skinner (Deceased) soldier.
She alway's said she never had or saw a Birth Certificate right to her Death.But she was very adamant, her Father Died before her 1917 Birth,serving in World War 1 as a soldier.I do have some of her photos with a WW1 soldier,looking at his cap badge it looks like Royal Artilliary.However,these photos have ''Rueben Skinner'' written on reverse instead of Charles???
So can anyone advise me of perhaps the most logical or easier route to take to hopefully find more about her father.Why would no name appear on Birth Certicate,but she names him when marrying?

[Mutley]

Sadly, many people lied on their marriage certificates often to 'save face' if they were indeed illegitimate.
Sometimes they just did not know who their father was and gave the name of a family member, uncle or someone they knew as a child.

Have you managed to trace Alice? Where was she in 1911?
This is a real detective job, search for Charles Skinner and search for Rueben Skinner and find Alice and try to tie something together. This is a difficult one until the next census is released.

[Lizzy9]

Hello Peter,

Did Dorothy have siblings? Also did she have a stepfather? Any idea when/where her mother was born?

Tell us all you know and we may be able to find some information.

[Kerrywood]

Birth Certificate of Dorothy Lydia Skinner on 26-08-17 (Peckham), shows father unnamed.Mother Alice Skinner.
Peter, what is the exact address on the birth certificate? Could it have been an institution, which might have records? Was Alice herself the informant, or was it someone else?

[Mutley]

The problem with the Walthamstow fellow is that he was born and lived north of the river.
I would rather find a family that were Sarf! :smile5:

I have passed a Southwark Rueben but there is nothing to tie him in. Rueben is not so common but Skinner is very much so.

[Colin Rowledge]

Her Marriage certificate in 1958 states her father as Charles Skinner (Deceased) soldier.


So can anyone advise me of perhaps the most logical or easier route to take to hopefully find more about her father.Why would no name appear on Birth Certicate,but she names him when marrying?

Hi Peter and welcome to the den of Miss Marple and Hercule Poirot.

Since you have the birth cert. I prseume you have her marriage one. What was her status - "spinster' or 'widow'?

I have a couple of instances where both the maiden and married name was the same - e,g. "Lugg".

[Mutley]

This family may be worth looking at.

1881 living at Green Lane, Greenwich
Charles Skinner age 29
Caroline Lydia Skinner age 29
Charles G. Skinner age 5
John Wm. Skinner age 4 born Peckham
Caroline C. Skinner age 2 born Peckham
RG11/721/131/21

1891 living at Furley Street, Camberwell
Caroline Skinner age 38 Widow, born Bermondsey
Charles Skinner age 15
John Skinner age 14
Caroline Skinner age 12
Richard Skinner age 9
Frederick Skinner age 7
Alice Skinner age 4
Albert Skinner age 2
Elizabeth Oldrey age 75, mother, born Norfolk
All kids born Peckham
RG12/480/22/38

Records Copyright of TN

[Peter Minter]

Thank You everyone,you have all been so helpfull,giving me some extra research ideas.....The CWG records seem a couple of years short of Dorothy's Birthdate of 26/08/17.The Reuben Skinner (Essex Regiment) Died in august 1915.
Her mother 'Alice Skinner' was the informant at 17,Cornwell Road,Peckham.My grandmother Dorothy was the only child.
Sadly i have no other details on her mother Alice Skinner,Birth,Marriage?,Death or census records.....So I think i will need to do some more reseach,Census records included.All your kind help is most welcome & appreciated,so thank you all!

[Mutley]

Alice with her mum Caroline is easy to find in 1901. They are both living together in 1911 in Peckham, I suggest you buy some credits with FMP if you do not have any.
Remember, Caroline's middle name is Lydia and this Alice was still living with her mum into her 20s.

I just need to find if this family has a Rueben somewhere in it. :(

[Peter Minter]

Thanks mutley,
Those two census records look very much like my Grandmothers family.Thats her mum 'Alice' (4) in Peckham in 1891,my nans grandmother 'Caroline Lydia' is a widow there to Charles Skinner.
Well ive learnt tonight my nan had her grandmothers middle name!
The name of Charles can be seen in the family as well,so that name is popular.Once again,very helpful information!

[Peter Minter]

Sorry,if i am a little slow in replying;still a 'novice' with computers & forums.....Yes i will do that get some credits with FMP.
If i attempted to get copies of Peckham electoral roll,prior to my grandmothers birth in 1917 maybe it will confirm the situation.
Her mother was born in 1886/87 then as Alice Skinner,and she gave birth to my grandmother (Dorothy Skinner) in 1917.Yes her mother did remain with her grandmother,i was told that.So it can be seen Alice Skinner was certainly unmarried at my grandmothers birth.It seems the names and photo of Reuben/Charles will be a mystery for the moment

[Nicolina]

I've just checked the GRO Index for Dorothy's birth and there are 4 born Sept. quarter 1917:
Dorothy - mother's name SKINNER
Dorothy L - mother's name SKINNER
Dorothy M - mother's name BROWN
Dorothy M- mother's name TURNER

so it looks, at first glance as though the first 2 were illegitimate (unless there was a SKINNER / SKINNER marriage.
the PRs might have a "reputed" father's name added, if you can get a look at them.

[Peter Minter]

Many thanks nicolina.....That's my grandmother Dorothy L Skinner