Married in Durban, circa 1902

[Lenore]

Hello folks,

You could have knocked me down with a feather today when I learnt that my grandfather's sister Emily Frances Griffith packed her bags in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia, shipped out to Durban and married Hugh Owens. I wondered what had become of her.

So now I'm a bit stuck as to how to proceed. I would like to know in what year she was married - after the 2nd South African War, I am guessing. And I would like to know how her husband Hugh Owens came to be there, and for how long. He does not appear to have emigrated with his family. I don't know if he came for diamonds or adventure. He was aged about 32 in 1902. He may have arrived from England, or he may have come from Australia. It is not at all obvious how Emily came to know Hugh sufficiently well to marry him, so I'm inclined to think he had spent some time in Melbourne.

He was a carpenter by trade. Are there any post office directories which might list him? Or an electoral roll? Or an index of marriages in Durban? Or digitised newspapers to have a look at? I'm completely in the dark on research in Durban, though I read a few posts and tried the NAAIRS database without success. I would be grateful for any pointers.

Best wishes

Lenore

[Richard1955]

Hi Lenore
If your thinking that they may have originated from the UK as I do then we should be able to find them on census
rather than directories.
Would need more info to do that. ie. parents and siblings names and birth years. As much as you have.
There seems to be plenty of options on Find My Past for Hugh Owens including a prisoner of war released 1900ish
in South Africa.

[Lenore]

Hi Lenore
If your thinking that they may have originated from the UK as I do then we should be able to find them on census
rather than directories.
Would need more info to do that. ie. parents and siblings names and birth years. As much as you have.
There seems to be plenty of options on Find My Past for Hugh Owens including a prisoner of war released 1900ish
in South Africa.

Hi Richard,

Thanks for your quick response. I do know that he originated in the UK, I have already checked the censuses, and his parents and siblings remained in the UK. He wasn't still with his parents/siblings in the 1891 Census when he was 20, so I take him to be more or less a solo traveller. Then the trail runs cold until he gets married in Durban to a young woman who travelled there from Melbourne to marry him. I feel it is more likely that she met him in Melbourne than anywhere else, but I don't know. She was born in Melbourne.

I am trying to establish how long he had been in Durban, which is why I am interested in any directories or other information that would suggest how long he had been there. I'm not sure precisely when they married, so I'd like to find that out as well. I have the wedding photo, so I am estimating the date from the frocks!

I don't have a sub to Findmypast, I have a sub to Ancestry, so I can't look at the info on the released POW (mind you, Hugh Owens is a very common name, and there'd be a gazillion of them from Wales in the army, I imagine. This one was born in Liverpool in 1870.)

Best wishes,

Lenore

[Kerrywood]

Hi Lenore


He wasn't still with his parents/siblings in the 1891 Census when he was 20

Can you please give us the census references that you have for Hugh and/or his family, so that we can be sure we're looking at the right person?

[Lenore]

Hi Kerrywood,

I would prefer people not to get sidetracked onto British research, I am trying to find out how to find things in Durban. Is there a marriage index that I can consult? Are there directories (digitised online for a preference) that I can consult? Are there digitised online newspapers that I can consult? Are there electoral rolls that I can consult? Was there a census in Durban in the time period? What are the usual records and resources used for Durban in this period?


Best wishes,

Lenore

[Richard1955]

Hi Lenore.
To answer most of your original questions we need census reference to make sure we are working
with the right person and establish when Hugh left the UK, where he went to,
if he fought in the Boar War, where and when he met Emily, where Emily came from etc.
Find My past can be searched for free and to view you can pay for credits to view.
But you say you have a sub to Ancestry. Do they not have records for South Africa
and advice on how to research?

[Kerrywood]

I would prefer people not to get sidetracked onto British research, I am trying to find out how to find things in Durban.
Research in South Africa can be challenging from outside that country, which is why it may be advisable to start at the UK end.

However, for general resources you might want to have a look here
www.
cyndislist.com/soafrica.htm

To access the records held in South African archives, you may need to use an eggsa researcher, so have a look here too ...
www.
eggsa.org

[Lenore]

Hi Richard,

Call me a grumpy old lady, but it drives me nuts when people spend hours looking at things I have already looked at, and have determined to be not relevant to my current concerns, which are, to find out what sort of records are available for Durbin.

There is a problem with the census record which I dont need to go into, but what it means is that it might be the right Hugh Owens, or it might equally be the wrong Hugh Owens. I have looked in detail at the census record and all the associated censuses connected to that family, and I am satisfied that Hugh Owens either left the UK without that family, or else he was part of a different family whose names I don't know.

I have enquired about electoral rolls, directories, digitised newspapers and marriage indexes, and my strong feeling is that the information from the census is not relevant to the question of whether these things are available for Durbin. I have already passed on the information which I feel to be reliable, and I regard the rest of the information as not established, and therefore possibly/probably misleading. It is no use passing on misleading information, because sure as eggs, someone will find it here in years to come and use it as proof of something.

I rate myself as an advanced level researcher (40 years - and that is not my age, it is how long I have been researching), so I feel you can rely on my judgement that time spent by anyone else on the census records will be time wasted. I've gleaned what I can from various other sources, and passed on what I believe to be reliable. I don't know when Hugh left the UK. I think he possibly spent time in Melbourne. He was apparently in Durbin at least by 1902ish and married there. He was a carpenter, he was aged about 32 in 1902. His bride was born in Victoria, Australia and came from Melbourne to marry him.

Everything I have said about a marriage in Durbin is anecdotal. I want to find some actual evidence that this couple was in Durbin. They returned to Australia a few years later, not sure precisely when, but perhaps no more than 10 years later. The information about that came from their granddaughter, so I feel that can be accepted as probable.

Best wishes,

Lenore

[Richard1955]

All understood Lenore.
So we can't really help you with most of your original questions as you haven't got the information we need get started
and Kerrywood has kindly answered the question relating to researching in South Africa.

Perhaps you should start with wills in Australia and try and get a few more names to add to the puzzle.

Good luck !

[Kerrywood]

Lenore, further to my post #7, if you haven't already done so, you may want to read the sticky (http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/showthread.php/21140-On-Line-Sources-for-South-African-Genealogy) at the top of this forum.

[Richard1955]

It is very likely that Hugh was in the British Army and served in South Africa during the Boar War.
If this is the case then perhaps the marriage can be found with his service records or on military records
and possibly not on records in South Africa. This is an avenue certainly worth checking anyway
but at the moment all you have given us is a fairly common name, as you said, and an approx year of birth.
We'll try and guess what you already have and try not to find anything that is not relevant.

[Procat]

A chilly good morning to you Lenore.

I have checked the U.K. outbound shipping records without success. No Hugh or H Owen(s), carpenter born c1870. Unfortunately the online records start in 1890 and he may well have left just prior to that year.

[Sue Mackay]

Details of the marriage, if it took place in Durban, are quite likely to have been published in the Natal Witness. Whilst sadly I think the transcriptions at
www.
genealogyworld.net/witness/index.html
are just too early for you, a Google search for the originator and Natal Witness reveals a SA mailing list offer of lookups in the paper dated 2002 which may be worth a punt if he hasn't changed his e-mail. Failing that the paper still exists today, just called The Witness.

[Lenore]

Hi Kerrywood,

Thank you - the last website has proved most useful. You were right on the money there. They have provided transcripts of baptisms, marriages and burials for a handful of churches, and by great good fortune one of these confirms Hugh Owens' and Emily Griffith's presence in South Africa, though not in Durban.

They had a child baptised, and buried a few days later, in Potchefstroom in 1904 at St Mary's Anglican Church. It is interesting to see that one of the witnesses to the baptism was C Blay, who is likely to be Emily's sister, Charlotte Blay. The baptism also gives Hugh's occupation as 'carpenter'.

Last night I was also able to confirm two children registered to the couple in Sydney, Australia, in 1907 and 1909.

I have not been able to find any reference to Emily, Hugh or Charlotte Blay leaving Victoria for South Africa in Outward Passengers from Melbourne, nor in the digitised newspapers, so that is still a blank. Nor have I been able to find any death, obituary or funeral notices for Emily and Hugh (though I have found their deaths registered in New South Wales.) I was hoping to find an obituary, but no luck there. At this stage - there may be something in newspapers which are not yet online.

I was also interested to see the collection of postcards on the eggsa website - I had a very pleasant browse through them last night, and had a look at Durban and Potchefstroom in particular. Ptchesfstroom looked very charming. The newspaper transcripts were too early for me.

I did have a look at Cyndi's list, but there were too many broken links to persist.

Thanks again,

Best wishes,

Lenore

[Lenore]

It is very likely that Hugh was in the British Army and served in South Africa during the Boar War.
If this is the case then perhaps the marriage can be found with his service records or on military records
and possibly not on records in South Africa. This is an avenue certainly worth checking anyway
but at the moment all you have given us is a fairly common name, as you said, and an approx year of birth.
We'll try and guess what you already have and try not to find anything that is not relevant.

Hi Richard,

You are being very naughty - I have indeed told you what I have already done, no need to guess. I'm just not providing information I feel is questionable. You wouldn't be very impressed if I pointed to a particular census record, and later on it turned out to be wrong.

I think you are right that it quite likely Hugh Owens fought in the war, but I have no information about it, so I think again it is best not to speculate for now. And it *is* a common name. My informant has been travelling and will be home tomorrow so I can grill her a bit more - but I'm pretty sure she didn't know anything about it either. I need to know a lot more about Hugh before I even think about that. I want to know exactly where and when he was born, for starters.

I've managed to confirm to my satisfaction that he was actually in South Africa, in 1904. Haven't confirmed a Durban marriage, but I'm working on it.

Thank you for your patience, I know you want only to help, and I am being annoying, but I really hate setting people off chasing hares.

Best wishes,

Lenore

[Lenore]

Details of the marriage, if it took place in Durban, are quite likely to have been published in the Natal Witness. Whilst sadly I think the transcriptions at www. genealogyworld.net/witness/index.html are just too early for you, a Google search for the originator and Natal Witness reveals a SA mailing list offer of lookups in the paper dated 2002 which may be worth a punt if he hasn't changed his e-mail. Failing that the paper still exists today, just called The Witness.

Thanks Sue,

Yes, I've just missed out by a squeak with the marriage if it is in the "Natal Witness" - I did check earlier years in case the 1902 date was no good, but nothing. That is a great suggestion about the Rootsweb List. I'll give that a try.

Best wishes,

Lenore

[Lenore]

A chilly good morning to you Lenore.

I have checked the U.K. outbound shipping records without success. No Hugh or H Owen(s), carpenter born c1870. Unfortunately the online records start in 1890 and he may well have left just prior to that year.

Hi Doug,

Jolly chilly morning, and I had to go out in it all bleary-eyed. Now it is a very chilly evening. But thank heavens, Anzac Day has passed and I am allowed to turn the heater on. (But it has to go off for the summer on Remembrance Day. I tell my husband I like to turn the heater on according to the temperature, but he prefers the money-saving calendar method.)

Thanks for checking the Outward Bound. I really have not a clue about when he left the UK, so he may well have departed by 1890. I'm hoping to expand my knowledge when my informant gets home, but while I am waiting I shall try hard to discover if he spent any time in Victoria. Can't find him in the inwards passengers, and he is not in the 1899 Referendum Roll, but there's lots of things I haven't checked yet. I'll get stuck in and see if I can find a trace. In view of the fact that they went to Sydney after returning from South Africa, I'll be checking there as well.

Best wishes,

Lenore

[Procat]

Nor have I been able to find any death, obituary or funeral notices for Emily and Hugh (though I have found their deaths registered in New South Wales.) I was hoping to find an obituary, but no luck there. At this stage - there may be something in newspapers which are not yet online.

Hi Lenore.

I work only two blocks away from the SLV. If you have the dates of deaths for them I can check the films for death notices etc.

[Lenore]

Hi Lenore.

I work only two blocks away from the SLV. If you have the dates of deaths for them I can check the films for death notices etc.

HI Doug,

You are too kind - and you are way ahead of me. I only got this bloke's name on Thursday and haven't got that far yet! Thank you very much for the thought.

Best wishes,

Lenore

[Procat]

Hi Lenore.

Okay - let me know if/when you do get that far.

[Sedgepea]

Hi Lenore, I am from Durban and I can tell you that doing research in SA is not easy. The census records are not available to the public. The official BMD records are only available from the Department of Home Affairs if you know the exact date and details but in 1900 you are more likely to find church records and some of these have been filmed by the Family History Centre. They also have directories and voters rolls but if I remember correctly I do not think they were filmed.There is a SA site Ancestry24.com who have some records. I am also looking for the reason my grandmother came from Australia and married in Cape Town Regards sedgepea

[Lenore]

Hi Sedgepea,

It certainly looks difficult, but the folks at eGSSA - the virtual branch of the Genealogical Society of South Africa seems to be doing a good job and have some great stuff to look at online at
http://www.
eggsa.org/
Not that there was anything much there for Durban, but I was at least able to confirm the people I was after were in South Africa in the time-frame, so I am happy with that for now. I don't have sufficient connection with South Africa to warrant a further subscription to a paid service, but that would be an option if I did. I am going to start another thread on a related topic, because I will be getting off topic if I go on, so stay tuned. Thank you for your input.

Best wishes,

Lenore

[Tinker]

Lenore
I found your Hugh Owen and Emily Frances Griffith's marriage on the Family Search site while searching for rellies of mine. They wed on 2 June 1903, in St. Paul's, Durban. I'll PM you the details shortly.

[Tinker]

Out of curiosity, I googled for Owens connected with Potchefstroom, because sometimes when I'm really stuck, it kicks up useful clues. I came across an old Rootsweb post for a Frederick Owen, born 1872, Geelong, Victoria who married an Adrienne Rapkins, in 1898. He and his family moved to Potchefstroom, South Africa in 1903, the year Hugh and Emily married. Now, this might be a long shot, but given Hugh's estimated year of birth and the connections with Victoria and Potchefstroom, could he and Hugh be related? On Hugh's marriage certificate, his place of residence is given as Potchefstroom, so he may only have been in Durban for the wedding, then returned there with his new bride. Procat may be able to check whether Frederick had a brother called Hugh.

[Lenore]

Out of curiosity, I googled for Owens connected with Potchefstroom, because sometimes when I'm really stuck, it kicks up useful clues. I came across an old Rootsweb post for a Frederick Owen, born 1872, Geelong, Victoria who married an Adrienne Rapkins, in 1898. He and his family moved to Potchefstroom, South Africa in 1903, the year Hugh and Emily married. Now, this might be a long shot, but given Hugh's estimated year of birth and the connections with Victoria and Potchefstroom, could he and Hugh be related? On Hugh's marriage certificate, his place of residence is given as Potchefstroom, so he may only have been in Durban for the wedding, then returned there with his new bride. Procat may be able to check whether Frederick had a brother called Hugh.

A very good idea. I have had a look for the births of Frederick and Hugh in Geelong, or Victoria, or practically anywhere in Australia, but no luck with that. I think Hugh was born in England, so I may be able to pick him up in inwards passengers. I'll keep looking. Thank you very much for your help.

[Tinker]

Emigrating ancestors are always a nightmare to trace unless you have both ends of the thread, so I sympathise with you, Lenore. One of my ancestors is a Scot who ended up in Durban by chance, when the ship he was a crew member of was wrecked on the Bar at Port Natal, and I'm never likely to know his exact place or date of birth, or his parentage, unless there's a miracle!

Email me so that I can send you that image!

[Lenore]

Emigrating ancestors are always a nightmare to trace unless you have both ends of the thread, so I sympathise with you, Lenore. One of my ancestors is a Scot who ended up in Durban by chance, when the ship he was a crew member of was wrecked on the Bar at Port Natal, and I'm never likely to know his exact place or date of birth, or his parentage, unless there's a miracle!

Email me so that I can send you that image!

I assure you I already did email you, so I don't know where that first one got to. I've now emailed you again - perhaps you should check your spam if it doesn't turn up before this one.

Thanks for persisting with me.

[Lenore]

The marriage with which I began this thread was very cleverly and kindly discovered for me by Tinker, in Durban in 1903, in Family Search records. I have decided to record the various things found for Emily Griffith and Hugh Owen in a blog I began a while ago about Emily's father's adventures in the New Zealand goldrush. The material I have located on Emily's time in South Africa have been entirely due to the assistance of various people on this Forum, and I thank them all most sincerely. If you would like to see a photo of the wedding, please have a look at the blog. http://goldrushadventure.blogspot.com.au/ I will be following up with posts on the various records located.

Best wishes to you all,

Lenore

[Hilda Woodley]

Hi Lenore, I live in South Africa and tracing families here is just about impossible.
NAAIRS is only useful if someone was adopted, divorced, a criminal or their estate was registered before 1975 - then photo copies can be bought very cheaply - none of which appear to apply to your Hugh Owen since you have already looked.
Have you tried the Anglo Boer War website? he may very well have been an OZ soldier here in SA this site is very good and very helpful.
Also, for your interest and others - Ancestry24 is closing down at the end of February, at this time it has not been announced to where their vast amount of data will be "sold" or "transferred"
Potchefstroom - after the Boer war ended had a large contingent of soldiers (mainly for so-called peace-keeping) many of whom married Afrikaans speaking girls, remained in SA and continued working in their trained profession hence today you have many families with English surnames but Afrikaans is their home language. Such marriages were not popular and the couples were very often ostricised - again this does not apply in your case, just some interesting info.
Good luck with your SA rellies

[Tinker]

I've just had a look at your latest blog posting, Lenore. What a lovely photo! It would be interesting to know whether that was taken on the verandah of St. Paul's Church, a private house, or the local hotel. Perhaps someone with knowledge or old photos of early Durban can enlighten us. I came across quite a few grooms giving their place of residence as the Royal Hotel (presumably for the duration of the calling of the Banns), while searching through the marriages, and many of the earlier weddings were held in private houses, often that of the bride's parents. I found your couple by working backwards from where I found my great-grandparents' marriage, which took place in 1906. Your post originally caught my eye precisely because I'd been looking through those registers, in fact.

[Lenore]

Hi Lenore, I live in South Africa and tracing families here is just about impossible.
NAAIRS is only useful if someone was adopted, divorced, a criminal or their estate was registered before 1975 - then photo copies can be bought very cheaply - none of which appear to apply to your Hugh Owen since you have already looked.

You'll know South African records better than me, but I have been pleasantly surprised at just how much information has turned up for this couple. I'll be posting that on my blog over the next few days.



Have you tried the Anglo Boer War website? he may very well have been an OZ soldier here in SA this site is very good and very helpful.

To be perfectly honest, I can't remember if I already have checked it or not, my memory being what it is, but it is timely that I should have another look at it.




Also, for your interest and others - Ancestry24 is closing down at the end of February, at this time it has not been announced to where their vast amount of data will be "sold" or "transferred"

I expect it is too valuable a resource to disappear permanently. One of the big genie companies will snap it up, I would think.



Potchefstroom - after the Boer war ended had a large contingent of soldiers (mainly for so-called peace-keeping) many of whom married Afrikaans speaking girls, remained in SA and continued working in their trained profession hence today you have many families with English surnames but Afrikaans is their home language. Such marriages were not popular and the couples were very often ostricised - again this does not apply in your case, just some interesting info.

Thank you for those comments, they are very helpful. I'm not at all familiar with South African History, other than the broad outlines of the various wars, but those sorts of insights you have given are very useful. The Owens didn't stay overly long in South Africa. I still have to tease this out, but they were back in Australia by 1907 when they had a child in NSW. It may be that ostracism was one of the reasons - I'm doubtful that it was homesickness, because they didn't return to Victoria where Emily's family were. Whether Hugh had family in Sydney I have no idea.

Thank you for your interest.

Best wishes,

Lenore

[Lenore]

I've just had a look at your latest blog posting, Lenore. What a lovely photo! It would be interesting to know whether that was taken on the verandah of St. Paul's Church, a private house, or the local hotel. Perhaps someone with knowledge or old photos of early Durban can enlighten us. I came across quite a few grooms giving their place of residence as the Royal Hotel (presumably for the duration of the calling of the Banns), while searching through the marriages, and many of the earlier weddings were held in private houses, often that of the bride's parents. I found your couple by working backwards from where I found my great-grandparents' marriage, which took place in 1906. Your post originally caught my eye precisely because I'd been looking through those registers, in fact.

That's an interesting question to pose. I had always just assumed it was a private home, because I had no idea where it was taken and assumed it was in Melbourne. But I note that the building material is stonework. I don't know what typical buildings look like in Durban. Perhaps the Royal Hotel might appear in some photos if I have a look. Thank you once again.

[kaigs]

Hello Lenore, the only Hugh Owens that I could find in the National Achives here in South Africa, died in the Cape around 1927 but there is no mention of his spouse.
Kind regards
Brian

Email removed to deter spam activity. Please use the private message system to contact Brian. :smile5:

Christanel

[Lenore]

Hello Brian,

Thank you so much for taking the trouble to search for Hugh Owens and Emily. The Hugh Owens I am after died in New South Wales in 1947. This thread has become rather long, but I summarised what I found about Hugh and Emily in some blog entries earlier this year, commencing with the post below:

http://goldrushadventure.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/emily-griffiths-south-african-adventure.html

I haven't done anything at all since the last post on that topic, having been otherwise occupied, but I'll have a think about how I might extend the search.

Best wishes,

Lenore