Christian Elizabeth Campbell born Jamaica

[pepperpot]

Hello,
Looking to find Christian Elizabeth Campbell born about 1815 in Jamaica. I am not sure when she left there but but married and having children in England and Scotland by 1840-1841.
She married George Taylor born 1804 Marykirk Scotland. The Name Taylor is also spelled Tailyour. The Taylor family very prominent in Jamaica with plantations---John and Simon Taylor.
I have not been able to find out when she came to England or how she met George and where they married. Or if he came to Jamaica, met her there.
Any help greatly appreciated

Elaine

[olliecat]

Is this Christian, George and their children in Edinburgh in the 1851 census?

1851: Parish: Edinburgh St Mary; ED: 11; Page: 20; Line: 18;

Then in Cheltenham in 1861...

1861: RG9; Piece: 1802; Folio: 19; Page: 32 (crown copyright, care of the TNA)

Do you have them in the 1841 census?

[terrysfamily]

Hi
odd Question, I know, but do you have their childrens names?

[olliecat]

odd Question, I know, but do you have their childrens names?

I think this is likely to be the family...

1851: Parish: Edinburgh St Mary; ED: 11; Page: 18 (care of the GRO for Scotland)
27 Drummond Place
George Taylor 47, Lines On Interest Of His Money Ineceton In The Paritish Stocks In Indies, born Marykirk, Kincardinesh
Christina Taylor 38, born Jamaica
Eleanor Taylor 9, born England
Simon Taylor 7, born England
George Taylor 6, born England
William Taylor 7 mo, Edinr, Midlothian

Note: in the 1861 census, daughters Eleanor's birth place is recorded as Southampton.

Have you spotted those children christening in Hampshire on family search. :smile5:

[olliecat]

I have not been able to find out when she came to England or how she met George and where they married.

Since the family appear to have moved about a bit and were in Cheltenham by 1861, I do wonder about this marriage...

Marriages Mar 1841 Cheltenham 11 195
Craig Jane
Fry Ann
GARDNER Rickard
GIBBS Martha Elizabeth
JOLP Christian Elizabeth Campbell
Simms William
Taylor George
Woodfield Joseph

From the Gloucestershire BMD, out of those listed above, George Taylor married Christian JOPP (sic). Perhaps this was a second marriage for Christian.

[terrysfamily]

Well done olliecat :thumbsup:

If you take into account the 1851 census post #4 and the names of the children and then put it together with the Marriage in post #5 that olliecat found in . Now if you add in the 1861 Census, still Living in Cheltenham, where it says Stewart was actually born c1851, censuses are always +/- a year. Then these must be the registers of their children.

Look at the mothers name on William Stewart Taylor and you will see that it says Christian Elizabeth Campbell Jopp.

So it looks like the marriage that olliecat found is yours.

Eleanor Jane Taylor Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 13 Apr 1842 Southampton, Hampshire, England
Father George Taylor Mother Christian Elizabeth Campbell
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I03379-1 Source Film Number: 1596324 Reference Number: p 168 Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

George Robert Taylor Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 03 Feb 1845 Holy Trinity, Fareham, Hampshire, England
Father George Taylor Mother Christine Elizabeth Campbell
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I04111-1 Source Film Number: 1596131 Reference Number: item 2 p 54 rn 435 Collection: Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

Births Mar 1846 Taylor Keith Fareham 784

Keith Taylor Male Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 23 Feb 1846 Holy Trinity, Fareham, Hampshire, England
Father George Taylor Mother Christian Elizabeth Campbell
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I04111-1 Source Film Number: 1596131 Reference Number: item 2 p 60 rn 486 Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Deaths Jun 1846 Taylor Keith Fareham 756

William Stewart Taylor Male
Birth Date: 09 Aug 1850 Edinburgh, Parish, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
Father George Taylor Mother Christian Elizabeth Campbell Jopp
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11984-2 Source Film Number: 1066693 Collection: Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

Alexander Taylor Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 10 Dec 1851Edinburgh, Parish, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
Father George Taylor Mother Christian Elizabeth Campbell
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11984-2 Source Film Number: 1066693 Collection: Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

Christian Mary Keith Taylor Female
Birth Date: 07 Sep 1853 Kettins, Angus, Scotlland
Father George Taylor Mother Christian Elizabeth Campbell
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11294-4 Source Film Number: 993439 Collection: Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

Terry

[olliecat]

William Stewart Taylor Male
Birth Date: 09 Aug 1850 Edinburgh, Parish, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
Father George Taylor Mother Christian Elizabeth Campbell Jopp
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11984-2 Source Film Number: 1066693 Collection: Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950


Well done to you Terry for spotting this one. Good find!
Now I'm wondering if Jopp is her maiden name rather than Campbell. I guess the marriage certificate would clarify that and/or one of the children's birth certificates.

[pepperpot]

Thank you all for the great info. I had not seen that Christina's maiden name was Jopp. Seeing the marriage to George in Cheltenham certainly looks like the right one and I shall go ahead and order the marriage certificate. Finding them in Cheltenham fits----the family seems to end up there a lot and daughter Eleanor was married there in 1870.
I think I have them on the 1841 census in Kincardinshire---that would fit after the marriage as I see that the census was taken on June 6. They certainly seem to move around a lot.
So once again many thanks. I am next going to try and find Christina in Jamaica and when she came to England.

Elaine

[Coromandel]

Well done olliecat and terrysfamily for your super detective work overnight.

Elaine, do you have access to the British Library 19th Century Newspapers database? You'll find numerous references to the Jopp family there. Here are just a few:

The Morning Post, 9 February 1841:
'MARRIED'
'On the 28th ult., at St. Mary's Church, Cheltenham, by the Rev.(?) Francis Close, George Taylor, Esq., to Christian Elizabeth Cam(p?)bell, youngest daughter of the late Keith Jopp, Esq.'

Death announced in the Morning Post, 4 September 1823:
'Lately, at Tours, in France, Keith Jopp, Esq. late of Bath and the Island of Jamaica.'

Death announced in the Morning Chronicle, 8 January 1859:
'On the 5th inst., at Cheltenham, Eleanor, widow of the late Keith Jopp, Esq., of Keith-hall, and Joppa, Jamaica, aged 82.'

[Coromandel]

There is some discussion of various Jopps here - including a post from someone who has a portrait of Keith Jopp (by John Hoppner), and another from a descendant of his:

http://
boards.ancestry.co.uk/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=6889&p=localities.britisles.scotland.abd.general

An online book about the artist John Hoppner also mentions a portrait of 'Miss Eleanor Campbell, later Mrs. Jopp' :

http://www.
archive.org/stream/johnhoppner00unkngoog/johnhoppner00unkngoog_djvu.txt

[Sue Mackay]

This wil (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=181894&queryType=1&resultcount=1)l may be worth a punt!

[Coromandel]

Two more death announcements:

Glasgow Herald, 7 November 1868:
'At Cheltenham, on the 5th inst., George Taylor, Esq., son of the late John Taylor of Kirktonhill, Kincardineshire.'

Morning Post, 25 August 1898:
'TAYLOR - On the 22nd inst., at 19, Lansdowne-terrace, Cheltenham, Christian Elizabeth Campbell, widow of George Taylor, aged eighty-[one??]'
[last word very indistinct]

[Sue Mackay]

1841 Census: HO107 Piece 353 Book 11 Civil Parish: Cheltenham; County: Gloucestershire; Enumeration District: 29; Folio 26 Page: 9
(Original TNA Crown copyright)
Sansdown Villa, Sansdown Terrace, Cheltenham
Eleanor JOPP 55 Ind
Charles JOPP 30
E.P. JOPP 30 (female)
Ann JOPP 30
Sarah JOPP 25
None born in county - remember ages rounded to nearest 5 in 1841
Numerous live in servants

1851 Census: HO107; Piece: 1973; Folio: 1019; Page: 49 (Original TNA Crown copyright)
7 Lansdown Crescent, Cheltenham
Ellenor JOPP Widow 70 (not sure if birth column has been left blank or whether a smudge is actually a ditto mark for Gloucester)
Ellenor dau 45 born ?Jersey? B.S. (doesn't look like Jamaica, but don't think it says Jersey either)
Anna dau 42 born Bath
Jessett dau 40 b Bath
Elizabeth Jane dau 43 b Bath

[Sue Mackay]

Jessett dau 40 b Bath


This was almost certainly Janet Campbell JOPP (Jessie pet name for Janet in Scotland)
The National Probate Calendar has Janet Campbell JOPP of 19 Lansdown Crescent, Cheltenham, spinster, died 16 June 1890. Executor was her nephew Alexander TAYLOR of County Wicklow in Ireland, Land Agent

Probate Calendar also lists Eleanor Stewart JOPP (presumably the daughter?) of 19 Landsowne Terrace, spinster, who died 25 June 1884. Executors nephews George Robert TAYLOR of 19 Lansdowne Terrace Cheltenham and William Stewart TAYLOR of Ormsby, Middlesborough.

[terrysfamily]

Death announced in the Morning Post, 4 September 1823:
'Lately, at Tours, in France, Keith Jopp, Esq. late of Bath and the Island of Jamaica.'


Death announced in the Morning Chronicle, 8 January 1859:
'On the 5th inst., at Cheltenham, Eleanor, widow of the late Keith Jopp, Esq., of Keith-hall, and Joppa, Jamaica, aged 82.'

Good find Coromandel.. now with that info I have been able to find a little more info, namely, Baptism/Christenings.

I know that I’ve entered Keith and Eleanor’s daughter Elizabeth Jane twice but for a reason. The first shows her baptism in England but the second shows her baptism in the Jamaica Births and Baptisms collection.

Keith Jopp Male
Baptism/Christening Date: Mar 1802 Saint Mary-St Marylebone Road, St Marylebone, London, England
Birth Date: 18 Jan 1802
Father Keith Jopp Mother Eleanor
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C03524-4 Source Film Number: 580907 Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Elizabeth Jane Jopp Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 22 May 1807 Christchurch, Hampshire, England
Birth Date: 15 Oct 1806
Father Keith Jopp Mother Eleanor
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C14658-4 Source Film Number: 1041289 Reference Number: item 7 Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Elizabeth Jane Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 1807 Christchurch, Hampshire, England
Birth Date: 1806
Father Keith Jopp Mother Eleanor
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C14658-4 Source Film Number: 1041289 Reference Number: - 2:TL70F2 Collection: Jamaica Births and Baptisms, 1752-1920

William Bailie Jopp Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 1818 Saint Andrews, Clifton, Gloucestershire, England
Birth Date: 1818
Father Keith Jopp Mother Eleanor
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C17253-1 Source Film Number: 1595528 Reference Number: - 2:2ZKLRS7 Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975


1851 Census: HO107; Piece: 1973; Folio: 1019; Page: 49 (Original TNA Crown copyright)
7 Lansdown Crescent, Cheltenham
Ellenor JOPP Widow 70 (not sure if birth column has been left blank or whether a smudge is actually a ditto mark for Gloucester)
Ellenor dau 45 born ?Jersey? B.S. (doesn't look like Jamaica, but don't think it says Jersey either)
Anna dau 42 born Bath
Jessett dau 40 b Bath
Elizabeth Jane dau 43 b Bath

Very good find Sue, both with the will and the censuses. Elizabeth Jane dau 43 b Bath would put her birth around 1807/8, which matches with the Baptism I found.

Terry

[olliecat]

You've all been busy bees. Good finds. :smile5:

Another useful will to obtain would be the will of James Jopp (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=292454&queryType=1&resultcount=3) of Grove Horndean Southampton, written 5 March 1835 and proved on 19 March 1836. He mentions quite a few JOPP nephews and nieces including Christina Elizabeth Campbell Jopp.

Possible announcement in the paper for him.
Died
At Cheltenham, J. Jopp Esq. of Pulteney-street, Bath, aged 76.
Jackson's Oxford Journal, Saturday, June 6 1835

[Coromandel]

This birth announcement from the Morning Post, Friday 22 January 1802 seems to fit with the 1802 christening of Keith Jopp found by Terry:
'On Monday last, in Welbeck-street, the Lady of Keith Jopp, Esq., of a son.'

Only a few months later (17 June 1802), this death announcement appeared in the Morning Chronicle:
'On the 12th inst. at Edinburgh, Keith Jopp, Esq., youngest son of Keith Jopp, Esq. of Welbeck-street.'
The connection with Welbeck Street makes it seem likely that this is the male Jopp baby born at Welbeck Street earlier that year. But would a baby be called Keith Jopp, Esq.? I also note a couple of references in newspapers in 1846 to a Captain Keith Jopp having arrived in Cheltenham - could he be the son of Keith & Eleanor? Is he the one baptised 1802, or did they perhaps have another son Keith born later???

Birth, announced in the Morning Chronicle, Saturday 18 Oct 1806:
'On Wednesday evening last, at Sydney-Place, Bath, Mrs. Jopp, wife of Keith Jopp, Esq., of a daughter.'

Is this another sibling, or is there another Keith Jopp with Jamaica connections? :-
Aberdeen Journal, 31 Oct 1821
'Died, at Jamaica, Mr. GEORGE JOPP, eldest son of Keith Jopp, Esq.'

Elizabeth Jane Jopp's marriage, from the Morning Post, 9 June 1831
'On the 1st inst. at Littleham Church, Exmouth, by the Rev. Charles Lloyd, Henry Vereker Lloyd, Esq. third son of Frederick Lloyd of Crunna, county Tipperary, to Elizabeth Jane, second daughter of the late Keith Jopp, Esq.'

Death announcement from the Hampshire Telegraph & Sussex Chronicle, 29 January 1848:
'Jan. 11, at Limerick, Captain William Baillie Jopp, 64th Regiment, youngest son of the late Keith Jopp, Esq.'

Newspapers also alerted me to a dissolution of partnership, originally announced in the London Gazette, 28 June 1806:
'Notice is hereby given, that the Partnership lately carried on in Jamaica, between Robert Bogle, Keith Jopp, Andrew Bogle, and George Moir, under the Firm of Bogle, Jopp, and Co., hath been dissolved, and Keith Jopp hath assigned his Share of the Property and Debts of that Partnership to Robert Bogle, Andrew Bogle, and George Moir.'

'Robert Bogle, jun.
Keith Jopp.
Andrew Bogle.
George Moir,
by R. Shawe, his Attorney, by Power.';


Immediately beneath that:
'Notice is hereby given, that the late House of Bogle, Jopp, and Co. of Jamaica, having been dissolved, the Business will in future be carried on, under the Firm of Bogles and Moir.'

'Robt. Bogle, jun.
Andrew Bogle.
George Moir,
by R. Shawe, his Attorney, by Power.'

[Sue Mackay]

The IGI has a christening of a Keith JOPP on 9 June 1768 in St.Nicholas, Aberdeen, Scotland, the son of James JOPP and Jean MOIR. This seems a likely lead to follow given the name MOIR as a partner here (http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/15932/pages/821).

James JOPP married Jean MOIR on 12 August 1751 in St.Nicholas, Aberdeen (IGI) - you can find the full record by buying a credit on Scotlandspeople

The Slave records on Ancestry show that Keith JOPP owned 450 slaves on his plantation in St.Andrew's parish, Jamaica

[olliecat]

I've just checked on Ancestry and there are a number of extensive JOPP family trees which are probably worth checking out. They have Keith Jopp down as the son of James Jopp and Jean Moir, born abt 1768. There are quite a number of christenings in Scotland on family search for the children of James and Jean.

Also, another will that might be of interest is the will of Jean Young (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=302586&queryType=1&resultcount=3) otherwise Jopp, Widow of Aberdeen, proved on 28 April 1837. She mentions a Keith Jopp son of her late brother Keith Jopp.

There are quite a few mentions of James JOPP of Aberdeen in the newspapers. For example, there is a death announcement in the papers on July 15, 1794 for a James Jopp, chief magistrate of the city. There are also records on the National Archives relating to James Jopp, Provost of Aberdeen. I don't know if you want any of this posted right now.

Lots to investigate indeed. :D

[Sue Mackay]

A public tree on Ancestry says that Keith JOPP married Eleanor CAMPBELL in Liguanea, Jamaica in 1800 (no source given). A quick look on Google Maps shows that there is a Liguanea in St.Andrew's Parish, Kingston, Jamaica, which would fit with the St.Andrew's Parish location given on the slave registers

[Heather]

A public tree on Ancestry says that Keith JOPP married Eleanor CAMPBELL in Liguanea, Jamaica in 1800 (no source given). A quick look on Google Maps shows that there is a Liguanea in St.Andrew's Parish, Kingston, Jamaica, which would fit with the St.Andrew's Parish location given on the slave registers

Hi Sue......I wish I had time to look further, but I have an appt with the dental surgeon in 2 hours. Liguanea is most definitely in St. Andrews Parish and the FHC naturally have a parish film for it. In fact, I have a permanent copy of it. Liguanea is a rather upscale area of Kingston (the ex-Prime Minister Seaga lives there) and my husband's family live there also.

I must get over to a library or something to have a look at the slave registers in Ancestry. Ron's Figueroa ancestors lived in the St. Andrews area and I do have a few Slave Journal pages showing they owned a "pen" and slaves in St. Andrews. Now that there is a more unusual name (Jopp) one could look at the Jamaican FamilySearch owned by Patricia Jackson and use the search engine. It isn't a very good one, but there would have been a few hundred Campbells and Taylors......so I didn't try.

Btw, Ron (husband) said that the Taylors of his generation were quite well-to-do and had businesses in Kingston Jamaica, assuming that they were direct descendants. To put it delicately (not one of my finer traits, lol) they were of British colouring.

Good luck and btw, I have a free week of Ancestry for Canadian Marriages and I am APPALLED at the errors in it. So in my book, don't rely on Ancestry for *sourced material*........many dates were just a guess and out by 5+ years in my one line of Canadians. Haven't checked the other one. :rolleyes5:

[Coromandel]

A public tree on Ancestry says that Keith JOPP married Eleanor CAMPBELL in Liguanea, Jamaica in 1800 (no source given).

In a Google Book search result I can see this text:
'In Liguanea, Keith Jopp, Esq., to Miss Campbell, daughter of the late George Campbell, Esq...'

It is taken from Vere Langford Oliver's Caribbeana: being miscellaneous papers relating to the history, genealogy, topography, and antiquities of the British West Indies, originally published around 100 years ago in several volumes, but republished 2000. Unfortunately the book is only in 'snippet view' and the marriage announcement must be in an 'invisible' part of the book. I haven't been able to persuade Google Books to yield up the date of the marriage.

[Heather]

A public tree on Ancestry says that Keith JOPP married Eleanor CAMPBELL in Liguanea, Jamaica in 1800 (no source given). A quick look on Google Maps shows that there is a Liguanea in St.Andrew's Parish, Kingston, Jamaica, which would fit with the St.Andrew's Parish location given on the slave registers

Had time for a quick look at the MI Inscriptions for the West Indies and found 2 JOPPS.........Charles Mitchell Jopp died 8 Sept 1861 at the age of 56........also a baby, Mary Ann Fanny Agnes JOPP died 30 July 1862 at 7 mos. 8 days. I have a link for that "tome" which is at a Toronto University. Also have it downloaded.

Btw.....there are a SLEW of Jopps on Patsy's site, but they are in the Pay Section and I would have to rejoin to see them. Ron has never heard the name so obviously they didn't stay on the Island.

Off to the surgeons...........sob.

[Heather]

In a Google Book search result I can see this text:
'In Liguanea, Keith Jopp, Esq., to Miss Campbell, daughter of the late George Campbell, Esq...'

It is taken from Vere Langford Oliver's Caribbeana: being miscellaneous papers relating to the history, genealogy, topography, and antiquities of the British West Indies, originally published around 100 years ago in several volumes, but republished 2000. Unfortunately the book is only in 'snippet view' and the marriage announcement must be in an 'invisible' part of the book. I haven't been able to persuade Google Books to yield up the date of the marriage.

I am pretty sure that this book is filmed by the LDS.......all but one of 5 volumes. My MI Inscriptions is from 1875 by Lawrence-Archer. And it probably has been filmed as well. I just keep a copy here on my hard drive.

[Sue Mackay]

According to Fasti Ecclesiae Scoticanae (Vol 6) Jean MOIR was the daughter of the Rev George MOIR, Minister of Kintore, and his wife Jean FORBES. George MOIR was in turn the son of Andrew MOIR and Agnes MONTGOMERY and was christened on 12 May 1679 in Foveran, Aberdeenshire. There is a great deal on this family available via the Internet Archive in a book called "The Families of Moir and Byers" by Andrew Mitchell Gill. Jean MOIR married James JOPP, who served several terms as Provost of Aberdeen
http://
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Provosts_and_Lord_Provosts_of_Aberdeen

[pepperpot]

Again thank you one and all for the wonderful info. I am absolutely amazed at all of this and what you have found. Your hard work and effort is very much appreciated. I am trying to make sense of it all. I knew that George Taylors family were well known and there is a lot of family papers I am trying to get copies of but had no idea of anything about Chirstian Elizabeth his wife and where that would lead. I am going to send for their marriage certificate and I have just got Keith Jopp's will from the National archives today so am looking forward to reading that, should prove very interesting. All that information gives me so many ideas and ways to carry on the search so it is fantastic. I certainly seem to have an interesting family who moved around alot.

Elaine

[pepperpot]

Hello again,
Have just got will of James Jopp from the archives so have yet more to go through. I see Christian Elizabeth's name right away so this should prove interesting and helpful
Thanks again

Elaine

[Chris Doran]

You might find her at
http://www.
jamaicanfamilysearch.com/
You have to pay for much of it, but the rates are very low compared to the "big boys".

[Devanha]

I think that Eleanor aged 45 was born in Germany!

[Devanha]

I also note a couple of references in newspapers in 1846 to a Captain Keith Jopp having arrived in Cheltenham - could he be the son of Keith & Eleanor? Is he the one baptised 1802, or did they perhaps have another son Keith born later???
I think that they had a 2nd son called Keith b.1809 who was in the army.