Irish Rellies Info Update-- Help;

[janeygee]

:rolleyes5:

Hi Everyone,,,,

I'm back with a bit more info learned during my abscence,, my elusive Irish rellies are the ones I never seem
to be able to pin down. I'm still looking for my Grt Granparents birth's and siblings,, so I'm hoping with all
your help this one may be a close match,,,,

Jane Headifont (Father-Robert) married George Halliday,(B) Bangor,Ant.son of James Halliday; Jane & George
married 28March,1862;Bangor,Ant. I have only info on a daughter Alice Jane Halliday(B)23April,1872,,,,,
Next;
Martha Headifont age 22yrs spinster,(Father-James,Farm Labourer)Cluntagh Townland,Civil Parish. married
at Lisburn Civil Reg/Office on 30Dec,1857; John Mitchell age 24yrs bachelor,Occ/Weaver; son of Robert
Mitchell,Occ/Weaver; Witness's Jane Headifont & William Berk;
Question;
Are these two girls possible Cousins,?? Can anyone help with info on their family background's, parents,siblings
etc,etc, I would very much appreciate all help and ideas,thank you,,,,

Kind regards;

Janey;:clap:

[Elwyn Soutter]

I can’t say whether Robert & James H were brothers but I note that there was a John Hediphent renting a house in Cluntagh townland (parish of Annahilt) in Griffiths Valuation in 1863.

www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameSearch

Hediphent is fairly obviously another spelling of Headifont/Headefort etc. So that links the family to Cluntagh. (Modern address would be the Ballykine Rd, just off the B2.) The family have left the townland by the 1901 census:

www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Annahilt/Clintagh/

The births are all before the start of statutory birth registration in Ireland (1864) so to trace the family effectively, you’d need to focus on church records. To do that you’ll need to know their exact religion. It was traditional to marry in the wife’s church so the religion that the 2 girls married under (which will be on the marriage cert) as well as the place they married should give you a clue.

Most of the families in the 1901 census for Cluntagh seem to be Presbyterian but there are a few Baptists too. Once you have resolved what religion they are, I would check the parish records for the 2 churches where the marriages took place as well as the relevant church the family would have attended when living at Cluntagh. Details of the surviving church records are on the PRONI website. PRONI have copies of most though a few are still in local church custody, in which case you need to contact the Minister.

www.proni.gov.uk/index/research_and_records_held/catalogues_guides_indexes_and_leaflets/online_guides_and_indexes.htm

[janeygee]

HI Elwyn,,,
Thank you so much for your reply & info, yeah "John Hediphent" is on my 'who's-who' list,,, my Grt Granfather was "Samuel"
and he married Mary Ann McBride in 1st Presb/Church,Newtownards,his father was James,a Farmer,Ballymoney, all the family
that went to Scotland were staunch Presb/Church followers. This family name has so many spelling/variations it drives me
nuts,, on my Grt/Gr/F Samuel marriage copy the minister wrote Hedifont, I'm sure they are all connected and having'Cluntagh'
as a point gives me a start. I have a Robert,James,John,Peter, Edward,Henry,Samuel,Martha,Jane,Mary,I have some church
info on a couple so I will start with them,,,bunch of thanks again,will keep in touch.

Kind regards;

Janey;

[Elwyn Soutter]

Janey,

The need for a “correct” spelling of a surname is very much a 20th century phenomenon. Before that people were not that bothered and the spelling would often vary. It didn’t signify a deliberate change of name, simply an alternative spelling. William Shakespeare, the English playwright, spelled his name differently all the time, and I think we can assume he was a well educated man. In the 1700s and 1800s not everyone was fully literate. This can account for variations in the spelling of surnames. But in addition, often the information that appears in the official records was compiled by a third party, a parish clerk for example, after a christening. So the spelling would be dictated by the whim of the parish clerk, rather than any expressed wish from the parents. And if the parish clerk changed you might subsequently get a change of spelling in the names of later children. Likewise with all other official records. Focus on the phonetic pronunciation and the documentary evidence.

If your ancestors were Presbyterians then they'll likely have come from SW Scotland to Co Down as a part of the Hamilton Montgomery settlement in 1606, or thereafter. So when the industrial revolution started in Scotland in the 1800s which coincided with famine in Ireland, it would be natural for some of them to return, especially to the Clydeside area.

Elwyn

[janeygee]

Hi Elwyn;

My thanks again for your helpful info,makes me feel a bit better about the 'variations' of this name,what I have found in my research is each branch of the family,for instance two brothers, I would find different spelling and then next generation of thier family
would continue to spell it as before,and so on down the line,so in this case I have been able to sort the 'families' who came
over here to USA. In my Samuel Hedifont,the USA members spell it Hedifant,still today with cousins and next generations in
California.
I have a Robert Hedifant(B)Cty Down,c1830.emmigrated to New York 1850,married an Irish/lass Mary Dunlop(B)1828 Belfast
area,called themselves Scots/Irish on census,both staunch Presb/Church.they ended up in Minnesota,farming,and Robert
distinguished himself in a Cavalry-Unit of the Union Army during the civil war,I got his war-records from Washington,and
pictures of his gravesite.He had '3' sons Robert,John,William,and I just have this proud feeling about them.
I read up on the people who went out to colonize Ireland from Ayrshire,Scot.1606,1610,with Hamilton & Montgomery,its
wonderful history,My Hedifont's started back to Scot.in 1830's,Ihave connected a bunch of them,but still cannot find my
Grt/GranF.Samuel siblings,,,
Better close this for now,,will do a follow up,,,thanks again

Kind regard;
Janey;

[janeygee]

Hi Elwyn;
It's me again just to follow up and ask your help again when I see where you are located in Ireland,my Grt Gr/Father
Samuel Hadifont,married Mary Ann McBride,18Mar/1863 in 1st Presb/Church/Newtownards,witness's Robert Reid,
Jane McBride. Samuel & Mary Ann had a son (B)16March/1864(I have these certificates) baby was baptised in same
Presb/Ch. April/1864. Samuel & Mary Ann left for Glasgow soon after but did not take their son with them,don't know
who had him,anyway a daughter 'Lucinda Hadifont' was born 1865 in Glas/Scot and other children followed.
I had on file but have missplaced it a death of young Robert Reid Hadifont,age approx 20yrs,1884-85. I cannot
remember if it was a death in Cty Down or Cty Antrim,,???
Is there any possible way you can check this for me,,?? Is there a census for 1880 Ireland that may show this boy
living with a family or relatives,,???

I notice the witness at the marriage was Robert Reid, possible a relative of Samuel,,?? I also note 'Reid-Families'
in the Cluntagh area. Also I have a Robert Reid (mar) Agnes Dixon 22July/1859 1st Presb/Ch/NewArds. could this guy
be the same witness for Samuel,,????
Would appreciate very much hearing your ideas on all this, thanks a bunch again,,,,

Best regards;

Janey;

[Elwyn Soutter]

Janey,

You can search for Irish deaths (and births and marriages) on the LDS Beta site:

www.familysearch.org/search/collection/show#uri=http://hr-search-api:8080/searchapi/search/collection/1408347

Death registration in Ireland started in 1864. I couldn’t find a death of Robert Reid Hadifont at all.

As far as the censuses are concerned, there was one in 1881 but unfortunately all the Irish censuses from 1861 – 1891 were pulped during the first world war, and nothing remains. www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/census-record.html

The earliest surviving complete Irish census is the 1901 which you can see free, together with the 1911 on:

www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/?then

The only records that might have survived for that era are school attendance records which are quite handy because you get a snapshot of any siblings. They usually contain age and townland, as well as previous address if the child had attended a different school before. Copies of school attendance records are held in PRONI:

www.proni.gov.uk/

They will do a search for you, for a fee.

With regard to the likelihood of the 2 John Reids being the same person, given that it is the same church there has to be a fair chance that it is the same man. However the name is common enough. In the 1901 census there are 251 John Reids in Ireland of whom 60 lived in Co. Down. So it could be someone else. A father or a cousin even.


Elwyn