"Apprentices of Great Britain" index

[Coromandel]

Hello

As mentioned by Peter Goodey in another thread, the Society of Genealogists' databases formerly on the Origins site are now appearing on FindMyPast.

One of these is the index to 'Apprentices of Great Britain 1710-1774'.

Here's what the SoG site says about it:

'The indentures of those apprenticed were private documents which have usually not survived. However, they were centrally registered in the period 1710-1810 when a tax was placed on them. The resulting records at the Public Record Office for the whole of the British Isles have been indexed by the Society 1710-1774 in two alphabetical series, 1710-1762 and 1762-1774. They usually give the name of the father of the apprentice up to about 1750, the name and trade of the master and the amount paid. The preface in volume 1 gives details of the system followed, the apparently double Christian names being firstly that of the child and secondly that of his father or mother. There are separate indexes to the masters.'

It takes some getting used to as variant spellings of names are grouped together, so you may not get the page you expect. Also the format of the index entries is abbreviated to save repetition. But well worth looking at nonetheless!

[Kerrywood]

Just for the record, the data now on FMP (formerly on Origins) is a digitisation of typewritten abstracts from the records, made many years ago by the Society of Genealogists.

The original apprenticeship tax records are in series IR 1 at the National Archives. This research guide (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/apprenticeship-records.htm) provides a useful introduction to them, and to other apprenticeship records.

This publication (http://www.parishchest.com/index.php?cmd=viewproduct&cat=&id=P15478&pageOffset=0) may also be of interest.

[BeeE586]

Anyone interested in the Cutlers' Apprentices of Hallamshire will find an index here. Masters are also indexed.

www.
sheffieldrecordsonline.org.uk/index_cutlers.html

Eileen

[usernick]

Just a quick question regarding the actual IR1 records: If trying to find an Apprentice Indenture post-1750 (in my case 1759), would the actual record have any further details aside from that provided in the Indexes (as recently published on findmypast)?

If I'm understanding correctly, the apprentice's parents details (and, indeed current abode) are rarely entered post-1750?

Cheers,


Nick King

[Kerrywood]

The research guide linked in message #2 includes a table of the information that appears in a typical record in IR 1.

The original entries will vary according to the amount of detail originally supplied by the local tax collectors to the Stamp Office clerks.

But if the parent's name has not been transcribed in the index entry, I think it is unlikely to be found in the original record.

[usernick]

The research guide linked in message #2 includes a table of the information that appears in a typical record in IR 1.

The original entries will vary according to the amount of detail originally supplied by the local tax collectors to the Stamp Office clerks.

But if the parent's name has not been transcribed in the index entry, I think it is unlikely to be found in the original record.

Thank you - much appreciated - I was contemplating a visit to Kew just to go and see that record - you've save me a trip!

Cheers,


Nick

[David Benson]

I have a difficulty with the search on this apprentice index. I'm looking for a name starting PRO - it gives me names of Pike - Pyke, so it should be withing that range. The index puts 'soundalike' names together so that the Pikes (Pykes) are all listed mixed up. The search 'thinks' it's found PRO within that page, but it hasn't. Any ideas how to get to the name I want to try and trace? There is no facility for skipping to the next page.

[Coromandel]

One of the matches in the initial list of search results should take you to the right page. It can be tricky to work out which, though! You have to try and guess which spellings of names are most likely to be the 'master' spellings under which variant spellings are listed.

For example, I see that there are the following pages in the search results list:
PUCKLE, Barzillia to POOH, Anthony
PEW, Bryan to PUGH, John

I would guess that POOH and PEW in this case are both grouped under the heading PUGH, so a more helpful list of page headings would be
PUCKLE, Barzillia to PUGH, Anthony
and
PUGH, Bryan to PUGH, John

It is much easier to figure out in the paper version!

Have you tried putting the whole name in, rather than just the first three letters? It also may help to try and think of variant spellings of the name you're interested in, and search for those as well.

[Zen Rabbit]

Aside from going down to Kew is there anyway of seeing apprentice records for after 1754 up to 1811?

[Chris Doran]

This sounds like the same thing that we're currently keying under Ancestry's "WAP" project. Despite being headed "England" there are lots of Scottish entries. If you work on this project you get free access to the images when they go online. The handwriting isn't too hard to decipher. I think you can be a keyer without having a sub.

[Coromandel]

This sounds like the same thing that we're currently keying under Ancestry's "WAP" project. Despite being headed "England" there are lots of Scottish entries. If you work on this project you get free access to the images when they go online. The handwriting isn't too hard to decipher. I think you can be a keyer without having a sub.

That is interesting to hear. I see from the listing of the active World Archives Projects at http://
community.ancestry.co.uk/wap/download.aspx that the one on apprenticeships is 41% complete. It is described there as "England, Register of Duties Paid for Apprentices' Indentures, 1710-1811".

[Kerrywood]

Yes, it is IR 1 that is being keyed.

[SloopJB]

I have a Nicholas Trezise apprenticed to George Williams Watchmaker in 1804 and became Burgess of Bristol in 1812.
I have downloaded the PDF for 1804 - 1808 from IR 1/72.

Not finding any Bristol entries at present although only covered 50 of 250 pages.
Was Bristol an exception had its own records like London ?

Wanted to see if George Williams had any other apprenticeships or if he was an apprentice at an earlier date himself.

Not sure if my man would have escaped the tax as he did not complete his apprenticeship until 1811/12 ?

Any help / advice on researching Nicholas and or George further most wlecome.

[chellam]

Does an Apprenticeship Indenture which makes mention of '2L by the mother and 5L by the father' necessarily mean that the child being apprenticed was an illegitimate child? Age of child was 9 and term was for 5 years.
Thanks.

[peter nicholl]

Does an Apprenticeship Indenture which makes mention of '2L by the mother and 5L by the father' necessarily mean that the child being apprenticed was an illegitimate child? Age of child was 9 and term was for 5 years.
Thanks.
Hi, Welcome to the Forum.
I would suggest that in modern terms 2L and 5L would be written £2 and £5 as it was normal to pay the Master to take on an apprentice. Perhaps the mother had her own means. I can't see that it points to the child being illegitimate. Or, I may have missed your point.

[chellam]

Hi, Welcome to the Forum.
I would suggest that in modern terms 2L and 5L would be written £2 and £5 as it was normal to pay the Master to take on an apprentice. Perhaps the mother had her own means. I can't see that it points to the child being illegitimate. Or, I may have missed your point.

Thanks so much for your reply Peter. The whole story on my apprenticed ancestor (possibly) is that a James Morris was baptized in Christchurch Hampshire on Nov 11, 1747 to a Mary Morris. There was a Mary Morris baptized there 11 years previous to this in 1736 to a John Morris. John's wife was also named Mary. Young James was apprenticed at 9 years old to Benjamin Ayles, chairmaker of Christchurch, who also was associated with William Holloway in business. James was apprenticed for a term of 5 years duration with 2L by the mother and 5L by the father which you correctly state is the fee paid to the Master. It has been suggested to me that James might have been the illegitimate son of Mary born 1736 because only the mother's name Mary is given at his baptism in 1747 and both father and mother are mentioned in the apprenticeship indenture. Given this set of facts what would be prudent to assume about young James' legitimacy, if anything?