Jesse Hicks (nee ROUSE)

[Ted Carpenter]

My wife's grandmother, although born in Kngston Lisle in Wilts/Oxon/Berks (not sure which county it was in at the time?!!) on June 1st 1916, was born into the agricultural community in that area but it was always a family tradition that her side of the family were of a Romany background.
I know it's a bit vague, but I wonder if anyone can shed any light.
Ted:online2long:

[Geoffers]

I believe Kingston Lisle was Berkshire up t 1974 (I'd stand to be corrected).

With the birth certificate of your wife's grandmother providing parents names and father's occupation, you may be able to then trace the parents marriage using the GRO index (do remember to try freebmd.........as its name suggests, it's free) and possibly find where they were in the 1911 census. This may then confrm the tradition of a romany background.

For tracing romany background, the Romany and Traveller Family History Society

www.
rtfhs.org.uk/

may be able to assist with advice

[Lizzy9]

Ted, do you have any other details eg. Jessie's siblings names, or her parents given names.

I cannot find a Jessie Rouse registered in Faringdon which was the reg district for Kingston Lisle. There is however a Bessie Rouse which could be a mistranscription, or a name misheard.

Bessie's mother's maiden name was Pearce and I have found a possible Rouse/Pearce marriage: Henry Rouse also indexed Sarah Pearce, Dec qrt 1897, Faringdon, 2c/610.

If you think this could be the right pairing it should be possible to trace them back through census returns.

[Ted Carpenter]

Hi Lizzy,
I'd be interested if you could forward the general details of the Rouse/Pearse marriage so that I could follow up the lead, wherever it may go to. I'll try and find out some more details about jessie's siblings. All i can remember fro now is that she had a brother who was names Bill (William) and he died in the sixties and is buried in Milton-Under-Wychwood (Methodist Chapel graveyard)

[Lizzy9]

Hi Ted,

I posted details of the marriage from the GRO index in my first post.

Here they are in 1901, all born Faringdon. RG13; Piece: 1128; Folio: 28; Page: 21 (Crown copyright, in care of TNA)

Henry Rouse 36 Gen. Labourer
Sarah Rouse 25
Albert H Rouse 1

[Lizzy9]

Milton-Under-Wychwood registration district in the 60's was Chipping Norton. I cannot find an appropriate death for William in the 1960's. Maybe he died elsewhere but was buried in Oxfordshire?

[Lizzy9]

For now we do not know if Henry Rouse and Sarah Pearce are your wife's ancestors. If you can establish Jessie's siblings names we can take this further.

Ideally as Geoffers mentioned, you need Jessie's birth certificate, but we cannot be certain Bessie is a mistranscription for Jessie which is why siblings' names could be useful, particularly siblings born 1912 onwards as the mother's maiden name will be on the GRO index.

[Lizzy9]

Ted, do you have some details for Jessie Rouse's marriage to Mr Hicks? As in when it took place, where, Mr Hick's first name, I have been unable to find a marriage ref in the GRO indexes.

[Ted Carpenter]

I'm absolutley certain that he died whilst sweeping up leaves at the gateway to the large house at the end of The Sands in Milton under Wychwood, as my wife, although a young girl at the time, was there when they found him. He's buried in the Methodist chapel grave yard in Milton, which is at the other end of the village and we tend his grave along with Jessie and Ted Hicks' at least once a year. my wife still has one relative in neighbouring Shipton under Wychwood, so we're going to try to find out anything that she might remember before it's too late (she's getting on a bit). of course it is possible that his first name wasn't actually William, as my wife only remembers him as Uncle Bill. Perhaps that was his middle name. it all needs a lot more research, but thanks for the help, it is greatly appreciated
Ted

[Ted Carpenter]

I'm having to suffer the Mother-in-Law tomorrow, so I'll glean what info I can out of her when I see her. Who knows, she might turn up some gems of information. Here's hoping.
thanks for your help
Ted

[Ted Carpenter]

Sorry everybody!! it seems I've been searching under the wrong bush!! Rouse was indeed my wife's great grandmothers name, but it transpires that her mother married twice and the children kept their original surname which was GIBBS. Jessis's siblings were William (died 1967/8 in Milton under Wychwood) Jack (possibly John?) and Frederick (all GIBBS's). Jessie in particular was born in Childrey (Wilts, I Think?) and she married, as said before, Ted (Edward George) HICKS, who wasn't from Highworth, as previously thought, but in fact from Nether Westcott, on the Oxon/Glos border. It seems that his father, George HICKS is buried there. Jessie's father, Henry Gibbs was a traveller (the gypsy connection) and her mother, also called Jessie was from Lechlade. That's all I could find out at this time. Anybody's help in confirming these details would be greatly appreciated.
Ted

[olliecat]

I must confess Ted - I'm a wee bit confused. I see a Jessie ...

RG14PN6440 RG78PN316 RD116 SD2 ED10 SN24
Family is in Farringdon, Berks

But didn't you say she was born in 1916.

I also see a marriage between a Jessie A Gibbs and a George E Hicks in 1930 in Pewsey, Wilts.

I think I'll read through this thread again. Ignore this if I'm just plain muddled.

[olliecat]

Jessis's siblings were William (died 1967/8 in Milton under Wychwood) ... (all GIBBS's).

Having trouble finding a death record for William Gibbs. Nearest I can find for the moment is ...

Death Mar 1968 Chipping Norton 6b 1329
George W Gibbs
Est. age at death: 65

[Ted Carpenter]

hi Ollie,
I reckon that you're right and my mother-in-law can't add up. that would make Jessie only 66 when she died and I clearly remember her being recorded at Burford Cottage Hospital as being 69 years old a while before she died. I believe that you've found the right Jessie agnes Gibbs, born in Childrey. I'm going to double check the marriage that you mentioned as the location is feasable and M-i-L, bless her, could have got the George Edward or edward George the wrong way round. I'll keep you posted!! Thanks again
Ted

[Ted Carpenter]

that's a possibility as well. I do wish family would use their actual names instead of their middle names!!!
ted

[olliecat]

If you could check some of the details it would be good. Do you have access to the 1911 census - it's just the head of the household is not called Henry and I'd hate to lead you astray if this is the wrong family.

Do you know when Jessie died?

I see this...

Death MAR 1982 Oxford 20 2918
Jessie Agnes Hicks
Birth: 1 Jun 1907

Is Burford Cottage Hospital in the Oxford reg district?

[Ted Carpenter]

I reckon that you're right and my mother-in-law (bless her) can't add up. I distinctly remember her being recorded, on admission to Burford Cottage Hospital, a good few years before she died, as being 69 years old. But to have been born in 1916 she would have been only 66 when she died. that wolud put her birth year at about 1908, and if M-i-L is correct (for once!!) George Edward (or Edward Geo. whichever) was four years her senior giving him a birth year of 1904 (ish). by the way he had a sister, apparently, by the name of Mary, but no one can recall when she was born.

[Ted Carpenter]

Yes. That's definitely my wife's gran!! i would assume that as Burford is within West Oxfordshire that it would fall under the Oxford registration district.It's less than twenty miles from Oxford itself. Many Thanks!!!
Ted

[olliecat]

George Edward (or Edward Geo. whichever) was four years her senior giving him a birth year of 1904 (ish). by the way he had a sister, apparently, by the name of Mary, but no one can recall when she was born.

Ah! then perhaps you should take a look at that 1911 census record. :D

[Ted Carpenter]

sorry Ollie but I don't have access to the 1911 census, and again, Henry may be his middle name, as before. I'm told that his wife was also called Jessie nad that she was born in Lechlade, Glos, but it may be that she just came from there at the time they got married. Further to that, George E Hicks' father, seemingly, was also called George (?) but I have no other details than that, so far.
Ted

[olliecat]

Ok Ted. I can't tell you what's on the 1911 census (copyright). However, you can see a list of names for free (no other details though.)

On findmypast, go to the census and click any 'search by name' link. Then click the 'census reference search' link. Then select 1911 from the drop down box. Enter 6440 for piece number. Enter 24 for the schedule number. You will then see a list.

Also, you said one of Jessie's brother's was called Frederick. So here's a possibility.

Births Jun 1913
Gibbs Frederick Webb Faringdon 2c 586

[Ted Carpenter]

Making Headway (I think!!??) Jessie Agnes GIBBS seems to have been the daughter of John Wm GIBBS (either a traveller/Gypsy or maybe part of the fairground fraternity) and Jessie WEBB. They were apparently married in 1900 in Reading. What I'm wondering is, as Faringdon (which seems to be the area where most of this branch of the family comes from) was, at the time, a detached part of Berkshire, would any marriage within that part of Berks be registered in Reading, as the administrative capital of the county? If I'm correct in pursuing these names, my research shows that Jessie WEBB was born in Lechlade, which is now Glouscestershire, but may at the time have been attached to some other county, as it sits on the Oxon/Glos/Wilts border. Both John Wm Gibbs and Jessie Webb are the offspring of "Johns", Webb & Gibbs respectively. Word amongst the family is that the Gibbs' were based in or around Princes Risboro' and there is one burial there that I know about. The person buried there is credited as being a member of a fairground family. Does anyone else have any info on the fairground people from that area? Any help would be appreciated.
Ted

[Ted Carpenter]

Hi there!
Been doing a bit of digging but most of what I've turned up is a bit speculative and will need deeper digging into. Thus far I've looked into Geo. Edward Hicks' father, also called George (born in Nether Westcott, Oxon in 1861, which means that he'll be registered as born in Chipping Norton I presume?) He's buried in Nether Westcott churchyard so I'm going to go and find the headstone (if it still exists0 as it's not too far away from where I live. There are too many possibles for a potential wife though, and no records available to me at this time. The only route i have at the moment is by ellimination but i believe that may be a bit too speculative and there are about five candidates, the most likely ONES being one Mary Ann ACKRILL (married Geo. Hicks in Sep 1898) or Norah STRONG (March 1895). Geographically, I'm left floundering as none of the potential candidates seem to have been local to Nether Westcott.

[Geoffers]

Jessie Agnes GIBBS seems to have been the daughter of John Wm GIBBS and Jessie WEBB. They were apparently married in 1900 in Reading. What I'm wondering is, as Faringdon was, at the time, a detached part of Berkshire

Faringdon was part of Berkshire, it wasn't detached from the rest of that county though.


would any marriage within that part of Berks be registered in Reading, as the administrative capital of the county?

It would be registered in the district where the event took place.

The GRO index shows a marriage in Sep 1900 in Reading for John William GIBBS with a corresponding entry for Jessie WEBB.

As the marriage took place before 1905 - it would have taken place in either Reading St.Giles, Reading St.Lawrence or Reading St.Mary; the parishes which then made up the district.


If I'm correct in pursuing these names, my research shows that Jessie WEBB was born in Lechlade, which is now Glouscestershire, but may at the time have been attached to some other county

No, Lechlade is and always has been Gloucestershire


Thus far I've looked into Geo. Edward Hicks' father, also called George (born in Nether Westcott, Oxon in 1861, which means that he'll be registered as born in Chipping Norton I presume?)

No, Nether Wescote is in Gloucestershire and in 1861 came under Stow-on-the-Wold district - HOWEVER - just half a mile east of the Westcotes is Idbury, which is in Oxfordshire and did come under Chippy.

I would strongly recommend getting the odd certificate to back up what appears in this htread to mostly be an oral history - and as time does play tricks on memory, it is very easy to follow the wrong line.

If you are not sure about using the General Register Office (GRO) index of births; and marriages; and deaths and how to obtain copies of certificates, please ask.

You may also want to look at the 1901 census for 11, Crown Street, Reading - RG13/1148 f57 p1

For Jessie WEBB
In 1891 try Bury Street, Abingdon - RG12/978 f93 p17
In 1881 try Ock Street, Abingdon - RG11/1281 f38 p23

Tracing further back is possible, but with great care.

[KathNZ]

Hi Ted

Do you have any of these people on census records. I have found an entry on the 1901 census for John W Gibbs 28, Scavenger and Jessie Gibbs 21, both born Reading, Berks, living in Reading. Could be a possibility !

[olliecat]

If I'm correct in pursuing these names, my research shows that Jessie WEBB was born in Lechlade, which is now Glouscestershire

The Jessie in the 1901/1911 census with John William Gibbs was born in Reading. The family are living in Reading in 1901 and Faringdon in 1911. Thus either this is the wrong Jessie, or her birth place on the census is innacurate, or the information you have on her from family lore is not quite correct.


They were apparently married in 1900 in Reading. What I'm wondering is, as Faringdon (which seems to be the area where most of this branch of the family comes from) was, at the time, a detached part of Berkshire, would any marriage within that part of Berks be registered in Reading, as the administrative capital of the county?

Since the Jessie in the census was apparently born in Reading, perhaps she was brought up in that area and perhaps that's why she married there. This looks like the marriage from family search ...

groom's name: John Wiliam Gibbs
groom's birth date: 1875
groom's age: 25
bride's name: Jessie Webb
bride's birth date: 1880
bride's age: 20
marriage date: 19 Aug 1900
marriage place: Parish Church, St. Mary's, Co. Reading
groom's father's name: John Gibbs
bride's father's name: John Webb

From the above, the marriage took place in the parish church of St Mary in Reading.

[KathNZ]

Hi again Ted

I have been having a dig in the census records and I have found John William with parents Johathon/John and Harriet.
1881 he is shown as William b & living Newton Hungerford, Berkshire with parents & siblings Alfred, Agnes, Ernest, Eliza & Rosey.
1891 the family is at Eddington, Hungerford with 2 new children Jane & Thomas. John William is not with them.

[Ted Carpenter]

Many thanks to all for your guidence whilst I'm thrashing about and seemingly getting nowhere. Thanks also for your patience when I get it wrong. This branch of the family is starting to do my head in a bit, so I'm going to leave tham for a while and concentrate on the Cornish side of my lot.
Thanks again
Ted (p.s. "give me strength!!"):surrender::offtopic::offtopic:

[KathNZ]

Just a last few census entries for you. I think George Webb father of Jessie is possibly the fairground connection. He worked as a hawker

1871 Bury Lane, Abingdon George Webb,39 b Abingdon, Berks, Hawker
Lydia Belcher,29 bHendred ,Berks boarder both unmarried

1881 Abingdon George Webb 49 b Hawker of Eatables
Elizabeth 30
Harriet 9
Georgnia 5
Jesse 1

1891 Bury St Abingdon
George Webb 50 Hawker
Lydia 48
Harriet 19
Georgina 15
Jessie 11
Emma 8

Hope this is of help in the future.

Katherine