Ye Olde Sargood Will to Decipher

[olliecat]

I have quite an old will to decipher. I’ve sort of become used to 18th century script; however the script in this earlier 17th century will is a bit different. Not only is the spelling - uhm! archaic – but all the ye’s are driving me potty.

I know they used to write 'ye' instead of 'the' but I’m confused. Did they write 'y' in the place of every instance of a 'th'. For example…

ye = the
yis = this
bequeay = bequeath

Or is it a case of a curly 'th' looking like the letter 'y'?


ps: I could have plonked this question on the end of my other thread – but it was getting rather long.

[Geoffers]

They are using what we now think of and pronounce as the letter 'y' - but -

It goes back a long time in history to when there was an additional letter in Old English 'thorn' and equated to the sound 'th'. The letter (originally a rune) was written a bit like a modern 'p' but over time became corrupted (and confused with another old letter 'wynn') to appear as 'y' and was (wrongly) pronounced as a y.

[Peter Goodey]

You may like to look up "Thorn (letter)" in Wikipedia.

[olliecat]

Ok thanks. I've across examples of 'ye' where the e is a superscript. I haven't seen examples where 'y' is written instead of 'th' in the middle of a word before.

So, when I transcribe this will, do I write is as...




... ordaine yis my last will and ...

... my broyer ...

... and yen to pay it unto yem ...



and keep the y's?

[Peter Goodey]

Why not work the same way as described in the National Archives paleography tutorial (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/palaeography/where_to_start.htm)?

...transcribe ye as the and yt as th[a]t.

[olliecat]

Thanks for the link. :D I typed up a second version of my transcription with all the y’s replaced with a th. It sort of makes better sense.

Could someone please just look at the short extract (http://forum.folder101.com/phpbb/images/WILL_SARGOOD_Thomas_1603_Blewbury_extract1.jpg) I’ve uploaded and confirm these words…


unbequeayed and bequeyed (first line)
broyer (last word, last line)
I don’t why I keep doubting.

[Geoffers]

First line - Unbeqeauthed I give and beqeauth

also, last word of second line - 'this'

Third line - John SARGOOD my brother


I don’t why I keep doubting.

Do you?

Are you sure??

[olliecat]

Do you?

Are you sure??

Yes, I do doubt my own transcriptions. This is the first time I've had to interpret a document with lots of y's combined with odd and inconsistent spelling.

May I bother you or someone with a word I just can't figure out. It's the second word of the second line of this extract (http://forum.folder101.com/phpbb/images/WILL_SARGOOD_Thomas_1603_Blewbury_extract2.jpg). I would have thought it should be the word 'sovereign' but it just doesn't look like it.

[Geoffers]

"Our sufferant ladie Elizabeth by ...................."

It's just an interesting spelling of sovereign, on a par with similar spelling of this period.

[olliecat]

"Our sufferant ladie Elizabeth by ...................."

It's just an interesting spelling of sovereign, on a par with similar spelling of this period.

Thank you, - sufferant - I don't think that would have ever occurred to me.