Latin confusion

[colwyn]

I was researching the baptism records of a relative, Mary Alice Smith baptised on 29/05/1881 at St Chads RC church Cheetham . I found the following written at the bottom of the record.... 21/10/1911 malumonies ralide et licite contra???? , Eccles St Paludin Ap???d Mancunium cum Ernesto Litterton..( I have tried to copy it as accurately as possible.) I have checked Freebmd to see if it relates to a bmd record without success...
Can anyone help with a translation ??

[Mona]

I have come across annotations like this in RC baptism records. They usually refer to the later marriage of the baptised. On my great Aunts it noted the marriage, her husband, the church, parents of the spouse and even witnesses. A nice little find. Did Mary go on to marry and Ernest Littleton?

[colwyn]

Hi Mona
Really useful when you find 'extra' bits of information on the baptism records . I haven't come across this type of inscription before and am unsure if it refers to a marriage record . I have viewed Freebmd without any success, so I'm hoping a 'Latin scholar' can help me out.

[Mona]

I could not find a marriage either. I wondered why this was added. Perhaps proof of baptism was need to marry in a catholic church, and one of the party needed a certificate, and so the information was added. My grandmother was baptised at the same church as her sister (St. Edmund's, Miles Platting) and there is no annotation on her record.

I looked at my Great Aunts baptism and here is the gist of it... dotted lines I cannot make it. Is it similar to this?

Die 22 Dec 1917 in Eccl. St Francisci ..... Gorton ipsa matrium con..... cum Henrico Percival, ......... filio Henrici et Mariae Percival presentibus Jacob Skinner, Emma Roberts et Revd Patric Martin

Katherine Skinner married Henry Percival in the church of St. Francis, Gorton, in 1917. The names are his parents and the witnesses.

[arthurk]

21/10/1911 malumonies ralide et licite contra???? , Eccles St Paludin Ap???d Mancunium cum Ernesto Litterton..

I think you're probably looking for a marriage. Allowing for dodgy handwriting, I think this may be something like:
"matrimoniam valide et licite contraxit" - she contracted a valid and lawful marriage (note to purists: I know it's not quite a literal translation, but it's better English!)
Then the place - Eccles St Paludin ?apud (= at) Manchester (I'm not familiar with the area, but others may be able to advise if this dedication is correct)
"cum Ernesto Litterton" - with Ernest Litterton

Like you, though, I couldn't see anything obvious at FreeBMD. There's a Mary A Smith in Barton upon Irwell (correct district for Eccles) in Jun qtr 1911, and one of the men with the same reference is called Ernest J Price, but he's not necessarily her husband. More investigation needed, I think, but this might get you started.

Arthur

[Mona]

Ernest J Price married the other women, Elsie Brocklehurst (from LancsBMD)
I think the Eccles. refers to "church", and not the place Eccles in Salford (which is what I first thought). In my example it was Eccl. before the name of the church.

[Mona]

Ernest TITTERTON married Alice SMITH, Dec qtr 1911, Manchester, 8d 399. Also on LancsBMD as a regestry or registrar attended, so prob. a catholic church.
Using her middle name!!!!

[colwyn]

Thanks Arthur and Mona...... Thanks for deciphering the Latin Arthur, i'll be able now to update my records and Mona many thanks for your detective work and finding the marriage record, that will now give me another area to research. Small world !! my grandmother and most of her siblings were baptised at St Edmunds. After 10 years of searching I have not been able to find a birth record for my grandmother and I came across the MLFHS catholic records index and 'there' was her baptism record , I was so pleased having given up hope of ever finding this information.
Thanks once again
David

[arthurk]

Glad to help - but good sleuthing by Mona. I should have thought of Eccles being church, but I sometimes get confused by places in Lancashire. (Well, that's my excuse, anyway!)

Arthur
From the right side of the Pennines :smartass:

[Mona]

Glad to be of help. I did find a site once with samples of Latin in RC registers, I will track it down. I have the baptisms at St. Edmunds on CD, 1877 to 1904 if you even need a look up.
cheers
right side of the Pennines... I don't think so!