In need of help.

[gen-lady]

Hi everybody,

l hope l am posting in the right section, l need some help in finding my grandparents. John and Lilian Graham. The following is what l know or have.

John Graham born abt 1887 died 1960 Birkenhead Cheshire aged 73
Lilian Graham formerly Fulford born abt 1892 died 1968 Birkenhead Cheshire aged 76. l have their death certs, also my mother's birth cert.

l have checked 1837 online under Lilian Fulford from 1906-1914 for the marriage, zilch. It seems on the 1891 census Lillian Fulford 8m Liverpool, Lancashire then on the 1901 same family she becomes Susannah Fulford 10 Liverpool. l also found a Susannah Lilian Fulford born sept qtr 1890 in West Derby reg district. l went back to 1837 online bought more credits and researched 1903-1916 under Susannah Lilian and came up zilch again. There was a Lilian Fulford born in Caistor whether thay are the same person l am not sure.

l hope the above info is clear, l really don't know where to go from here to find them. Could somebody please help me.

many thanks

gen-lady

[Geoffers]

John Graham born abt 1887 died 1960 Birkenhead Cheshire aged 73. Lilian Graham formerly Fulford born abt 1892 died 1968 Birkenhead Cheshire aged 76. l have their death certs, also my mother's birth cert.......l have checked 1837 online under Lilian Fulford from 1906-1914 for the marriage, zilch. It seems on the 1891 census Lillian Fulford 8m Liverpool, Lancashire then on the 1901 same family she becomes Susannah Fulford 10 Liverpool. l also found a Susannah Lilian Fulford born sept qtr 1890 in West Derby reg district.
Several possibilities re not being able to find the marriage:

1) Susannah Lilian FULFORD had been previously married and married John GRAHAM under the surname from her first marriage - try searching for the marriage under the groom's surname

2) They married somewhere other than England/Wales - was John GRAHAM in the armed forces or worked abroad at any time? Did they marry in France/Belgium in WW1? (I had a similar problem to you - my grandparents were both fom Portsmouth, couldn't find a marriage in England, turned out they wed in Simonstown, South Africa - now why didn't of look there first?? :) )

3) They married later than you think/didn't marry - I know this can still cause some sensitivity, so please don't take offence; but all possibilities do have to be considered.

4) Have you tried variant spellings of the surname - a less common problem from about 1900 onwards, but for example, it may be worth looking under FULLFORD or GRAEME/GRAHAME.

Having two forenames and being known only by the second is not unusual.

Geoffers
Charlbury, Oxfordshire

[gen-lady]

Hi Geoffer,

Thank you for replying to my post. when l was searching for Susannah l did scan through the other surnames just incase a spelling mistake had occurred. The John Graham's l found did not help as there was quite a few thought it better to go with Fulford. On my mother birth cert it states fomerly Fulford she was born in 1915 so they were married by then and no offence taken, l am beginning to think the Aliens dropped them off. l really have wracked my brain and as everybody has passed on l am at a loss.

regards

gen-lady

[Geoffers]

The John Graham's l found did not help as there was quite a few thought it better to go with Fulford.Good idea


On my mother birth cert it states fomerly Fulford she was born in 1915I can think of one instance where a couple divorced and after the woman remarried, her child's birth certificate just shows the mother's maiden name and not, for example, as Smith formerly Jones.

Perhaps they ran away to Gretna?

Geoffers

[Wirral]

Could it be Pulford, rather than Fulford? The former is a common name on the Wirral, the latter only has 2 entries in the 1940 Kelly's Liverpool [& Merseyside] Directory, both for Liverpool.

There is a Lilian Hannah Pulford born sep Q 1891 Wirral (freeBMD)
and a Lilian Pulford at 24 Grosvenor St, Whitby, Ellesmere Port Cheshire in the 1901 census

RG13/3382 p32 f119
Thomas Pulford, head, M, 37, Carter contractor, Cheshire Ellesmere Port
Elizab., wife, M, 39, Cheshire Stanney
Thomas, son, U, 16, carter, Cheshire Ellesmere Port
Mary E. dau, U, 15, E.Port
Sarah J., dau, 13, E. Port
Lilian, dau, 9, E. Port
Benjamin, son, 8, Cheshire Whitby
Ethel, dau, 3, E.Port

There are also 2 possible John Grahams born 1887 in Birkenhead in the 1901 census. As both John & Lilian died in Birkenhead, they may have both been from this side of the water, rather than from Liverpool. Any idea of occupations of anybody in the family, or addresses? It may be possible to track them down using the trade directories.

[Wirral]

Just thought, as you have their death certificates, do you also know where they are buried? Were they buried in a private grave or a public one? If a private grave, then there may be other family members buried there, an inscription, details about who bought the grave, etc, which may give you a lead.
If you post the dates of death, then someone may be able to look up the details for you.

[gen-lady]

Thank you so much for replying. John Graham was a ships rivetter he died 16th January 1960 age 73 Lilian 12th June 1968 age 76. They are buried at Landican Cemetery, they lived at 16 Dover Street, Birkenhead. l rechecked mom's cert definitely Fulford.

gen-lady

[Wirral]

When were they at Dover Street? Is that the address on the birth certificate? Dover St was off Cathcart Street in 1940. It has probably gone as it is not in the current AtoZ.

[gen-lady]

Thats correct and in 1968 Lilian still lived there, she died in St Catherine's Hospital. Mom and myself were born Dover Street. They had lived there before mom's birth in 1915

[alimak]

i was born in in cathcart st 1941 and dover st was pulled down late sixties , a new estate built there now

[JAP1]

Clutching at straws ...

There is a marriage of a John GRAHAM in Birkenhead, Sep qtr 1911, Vol 8a, Page 1023

Other people on the page are Leonard DODD, Rose POVALL and Lillian PULFORD.

I then checked for births (no location specified) from 1911 onwards ...

It seems that DODD & POVALL were a couple - there are DODD births on FreeBMD, mother's maiden surname POVALL, in 1912, 1917 and 1919 (all in Birkenhead).

FreeBMD has no births for a GRAHAM, mother's maiden surname PULFORD.

However, FreeBMD has two births for a GRAHAM, mother's maiden surname FULFORD, in 1913 and 1915 (both in Birkenhead).

It is tempting to wonder whether PULFORD might have been a transcription error in the original GRO index ...

JAP

[Wirral]

According to CheshireBMD, John GRAHAM married Lillian PULFORD in 1911 at Holy Trinity, Birkenhead BK2/4/463. The marriage of Leonard DODD & Rose POVALL was at the same church and was the previous entry BK2/4/462.
So it is likely that Lillian PULFORD/FULFORD are the same person.

[JAP1]

Hi gen-lady,

It's all too easy to spend other people's money.

But I guess if I were you, I wouldn't rest easy until I obtained that marriage certificate. ;)

Best of luck,

JAP

[Wirral]

Just noticed that gen-lady has not posted on this forum for over 4 years. She may already have this marriage certificate.

[JAP1]

Hi Wirral,

I saw alimak's post in the 'New Posts'. It didn't occur to me to check the (ancient) dates on previous posts on the thread!

Oh dear!

Cheers,

JAP

[Jan1954]

Hi Wirral,

I saw alimak's post in the 'New Posts'. It didn't occur to me to check the (ancient) dates on previous posts on the thread!

Oh dear!

Cheers,

JAP
Do not worry JAP. Gen-lady was last on the forum in April of this year. If she has email notification enabled, it may well bring her back to the thread. :)

[alimak]

there was a poval in bidston birkenhead in 1960 they had povalls farm there

[Wirral]

there was a poval in bidston birkenhead in 1960 they had povalls farm there
POVALL is quite a common name in the area. However, I think the only connection between gen-lady and the name POVALL is that gen-lady's grandparents married at the same church as Rose POVALL & Leonard DODD. The 2 marriages are on the same page of the register, but they are not necessarily even on the same day, they could be weeks apart.

[Wirral]

In the 1911 census there is no Lillian FULFORD living on the Wirral. However there is a Lillian PULFORD age 20 living in Ellesmere Port in the same house as Thomas PULFORD 48, Thomas 49, Benjamin 18, Ethel 13 & Joseph 22. This would fit with the family I gave on reply #5 on this thread & also Lilllian's age at death (76 in 1968).

[gen-lady]

Thank you to all for your input its has been much appreciated. l had to leave off my research for sometime due to health, family and moving, now thing are slowly settling hopefully l will have more time to devote to my research.

In the meantime to fill you in l have John and Lillian's marriage cert plus their death certs, and have manage to follow their families back to the early 1800's Lillian came from Lincolnshire her mother remarried in 1900 as Lillian's father had died. John's family came from Workington and there my research comes to another brickwall.

Again my thanks to you all on picking up this thread again possibly what l needed to get myself back together again.

kind regards
gen-lady

[JAP1]

Hi gen-lady!

So sorry to hear of your problems.

Nice that you are back.

I take it that it was the 1911 marriage I mentioned - wrongly transcribed iitially???

Or not?

Anyway, let's know about the new brickwall!!

Regards,

JAP