Death En Route To Australia

[Jenjen]

My great grandfather, Richard Whiteside, emigrated from Lytham, Lancashire via Liverpool to Australia in 1899. Unfortunately he died at sea off Madeira, as family lore has it. His wife and two sons returned (from Madeira we believe) to Lytham. I am unable to find his death recorded by the GRO on 1837 Online. Where might I go next to learn of his death, his burial, his ship and his location?

Thanks.

David Stocker

[ChristineR]

I think his death may have been recorded in the Australian state that was the destination of his ship. Do you know which the name of the ship and it's destination? On arrival a passenger manifesto was prepared which listed deaths and births at sea. Not all these survive, however his death will show up in our death indexes if it was registered here.

Christine
Australia

[Geoffers]

My great grandfather, Richard Whiteside, emigrated from Lytham, Lancashire via Liverpool to Australia in 1899. Unfortunately he died at sea off Madeira, as family lore has it. His wife and two sons returned (from Madeira we believe) to Lytham. I am unable to find his death recorded by the GRO on 1837 Online. Where might I go next to learn of his death, his burial, his ship and his location?

It is just possible that the death may not have been indexed, but still be registered. It may be worth checking the registers of marine deaths at TNA in class BT334.

How old was Richard? Could he have been Thomas Richard Whiteside?......

Index to marine deaths 1900
WHITESIDE, Thomas, 22, Dulwich, 270

Geoffers
Charlbury, Oxfordshire

[Jenjen]

Dear Geoffers - thanks for your help - Thomas John is not the one; his name was Richard Whiteside and I am pretty sure that the year was 1899. I do not know the source of the index at 1837 online but is it possible that BT 344 (1891-1972) in the National Archives ("The Board of Trade: Registrar General of Shipping and Seamen: Registers and Indexes of Births, Marriages and Deaths of Passengers and Seamen at sea") is an independent source.

Regards.

Jenjen

[Geoffers]

Dear Geoffers - thanks for your help - Thomas John is not the oneCurses


I am pretty sure that the year was 1899. I do not know the source of the index at 1837 online but is it possible that BT 344 (1891-1972) in the National Archives ("The Board of Trade: Registrar General of Shipping and Seamen: Registers and Indexes of Births, Marriages and Deaths of Passengers and Seamen at sea") is an independent source.You've got me at a bad time - I'm getting what will basically amount to a new library/office :) but this means that I have c.900 books piled on the floor of our conservatory waiting delivery of the bookcases and storage tomorrow - and guess what, my notes and books on TNA sources are right at the back of the pile :( - so what follows is from memory from using the marine deaths about 20 years ago, my memory should be considered highly suspect!

I believe that the index on 1837online is the official index created from the BT Registrar of shipping registers. I think these are BT158-BT159 (c1850-1891) and BT334. So if he died at sea, he should be in there - unless of coruse someone missed him off the index, in which case it may be worth checking the register (BT334).

An alternative is - what if he didn't die at sea? But became ill and was put off the ship in Spain/Portugal? in which case if he died in hospital there, his death may be registered amongst the Misc Foregin Deaths, which are also at TNA in RG(35?) and cover up to about 1920-ish.

Geoffers

[Judy M]

I have found that most often registration of death was made at the next port of call on an outward bound ship....So it would be well worthwhile checking the shipping route.
eg if in the Indian Ocean bound for Melbourne but calling in to Freemantle or Adelaide first..the death registration would be there...
So it would be worthwhile checking the next British port after Madeira (assuming it was a British ship?)

[Jenjen]

I have found that most often registration of death was made at the next port of call on an outward bound ship....So it would be well worthwhile checking the shipping route.
eg if in the Indian Ocean bound for Melbourne but calling in to Freemantle or Adelaide first..the death registration would be there...
So it would be worthwhile checking the next British port after Madeira (assuming it was a British ship?)


The "other" family version has Richard's bereaved family returning from South Africa (not Madeira). I think my best bet is to check death registrations in Cape Town and Durban ( the first "British" port of call) to search for Richard. I shall hope that the Family History Library in Salt Lake City has these but if anyone out there has access to these records, the name is Richard Whiteside and the year is 1899 - that's all I know.

[Jenjen]

Curses

You've got me at a bad time - I'm getting what will basically amount to a new library/office :) but this means that I have c.900 books piled on the floor of our conservatory waiting delivery of the bookcases and storage tomorrow - and guess what, my notes and books on TNA sources are right at the back of the pile :( - so what follows is from memory from using the marine deaths about 20 years ago, my memory should be considered highly suspect!

I believe that the index on 1837online is the official index created from the BT Registrar of shipping registers. I think these are BT158-BT159 (c1850-1891) and BT334. So if he died at sea, he should be in there - unless of coruse someone missed him off the index, in which case it may be worth checking the register (BT334)

An alternative is - what if he didn't die at sea? But became ill and was put off the ship in Spain/Portugal? in which case if he died in hospital there, his death may be registered amongst the Misc Foregin Deaths, which are also at TNA in RG(35?) and cover up to about 1920-ish.

Geoffers

I must check the BT 334 - I hope that the Family History Library in Salt lake City has a film - otherwise i must wait until December when I shall visit Kew.

The consistent part of the story is that he died at sea. Judy M has suggested checking the first "British" port of call which would have been Cape Town or Durban. I shall do that first either with help from anyone who has access to the death-at-sea registers in those ports, or the Family History Library.

Good luck with your new library!

[ChristineR]

Would the opening of the Suez canal change the way that ships came to Australia? I've never thought about it, apparently it was really treacherous going around the bottom of Africa so they may have come the other way, thus would the first call may be at Sydney, Australia?

Christine

[kmdward]

The Victorian Public Record Office has an online search of Marine Births, Deaths and Marriages, for people booked to Victoria. It might be worth a look, it is pay to view, at http://www.dvc.vic.gov.au/bdm.htm click on Registry of BDM then search Historical Indexes.