95th foot soldier

[geoffct]

I am trying to find out about a Robert Whiteside of the 95th foot
Married Maria Lemmon in Newtownards (his home town) 21 sept 1865
Had a daughter born in Bombay 1870 she died a year later in Portsmouth
Had a son Robert James Whiteside born Pembroke Dock 14 sept 1875
Father drowned Hobbs Point St Mary Pembroke 18 Oct 1875

I could do with some military records, I realise these will be at Kew
Does anyone know a quick way to find him?

Thanks Geoff

[Geoffers]

Welcome to the B-G forums

Army service records (WO97) are being put online via the pay-per-view site Findmypast. Those who were discharged up to 1900 are presently available. 1900-1913 discharges will follow.

Militia records (WO96) will also be made available in due course.

[Peter Goodey]

Father drowned Hobbs Point St Mary Pembroke 18 Oct 1875

Are you saying he died while he was still in the army? Records of soldiers who died in service are hard to come by.

[geoffct]

My assumption is that he was still in the army. My mother had some pay books of his but unfortunately these were stolen in the 50's and she believes he was a bit of a drinker, as he had many deductions for being drunk. I think she also has a death certificate and I believe it says on it he was a soldier in the 95th.
For a while we have not been able to trace my Mother's family past the said Robert Whiteside, so I am hoping to get enlistment (attestation?) records for him and so perhaps find his parents.( Actually his father James is on his marrage certificate)
He was in the army when he married and died aged 38, so born 1837, I would say in Newtownards Northern Ireland.
If I assume he could sign up aged 15 onwards, does anyone know which records ie 1852 > i should look for?

[Peter Goodey]

I think you need to be clear whether he was still in the army when he died and order another death certificate if you can't lay your hands on the family copy.

Assuming he was, I'm afraid you are not going to have an easy task. The records with the best survival rate are for soldiers who were discharged to pension.

Records that come to mind where you might find birth details are Pay and Muster Lists (WO 12 and other series), on the soldiers first appearance in the lists. Also, perhaps a likelier source, the Description Books (WO 25, mainly).

[Lawrence W. Crider]

Dear Geoff:

A cursory review of the Medal Roll for the 95th in the Crimea does not show Robert Whiteside present with the regiment. If he married in 1865 (and was a young man, 20-25 at the time) he would have been too young to have served in the Crimea. Kevin Asplin has a list of the recipients of the Indian Mutiny Medal at his website "The Asplin Military History Resources"; it indicates that "Robert Whitesides" of the 95th Regiment was entitled to a medal for service in the Indian Mutiny. You might try contacting the regimental museum . . . or posting your query with a discussion group related to the Indian Mutiny.

[MUMMYG]

I dont agree that he was too young to serve at the Crimea, I have a soldier who enlisted in 1854 Born 1837 and served in Sebastopol 54-55 then went to India in 58 and retired in 1876 with long service, he had an excellent service record but also was demoted for being drunk twice once on the death of his first child shortly after birth and again after the Indian Mutiny march, what a very hard life these soldiers had and I think part of their pay was alcohol, no wonder they relieved their lot by getting drunk now and again.

If he died in service or his W097 can not be found you can try the National Archives Medal Rolls W0100

http://origin.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATLN=3&CATID=13160&SearchInit=4&SearchType=6&CATREF=WO+100

These will confirm that he saw active service at Crimea, give his service no and any clasps he was entitled to.

Then you can try the Muster Rolls and Pay lists in W012 to track his movements. If he was an officer you could try Harts Army Lists.
You will have to search by Regiment first as there is no name index. There may be someone on a forum that has a list of Crimea medal recipients that you can ask. (sorry, just noticed someone has looked already above)
Good luck as I never can use the TNA properly, its too complicated.

[geoffct]

I managed to get an afternoon in TNA and found my man WO12/9554. He enlisted on 16th December 1854 in Newtownards Co. Down aged 18 and then was sent to Malta on way to the Crimea, although I seem to have missed any record of his enlistment. At this time he was in the 1st Battalion with a service no. of 3489 and his name is recorded as Whitesides throughout the military records. I didn't have the patience to go through every year's muster records but there were several years when he wasn't present (one occasion he is recorded as being in England), did they swop regiments or battalions? His service record seems pretty clean until the year of his death when he spent two occasions in the cells, he is later recorded as drowned at Pembroke. Having found my man I was hoping to find out about his parents, should I have looked somewhere else for his attestation record?

[MUMMYG]

Attestation papers would normally be within the WO97(Chelsea Pension) records if Im not mistaken and there wouldnt be a record for a soldier who died in service as he didnt make it to pension. My soldiers record didnt contain any info on parents spouse or children though so not everyone is lucky, later records are better.

I did find him on an Indian mutiny medal roll as Whitesides Robert 95 foot Private but that doesnt help much, you could try the for the Crimean medal rolls at the TNA

Not sure if it would be worth searching WO96 Militia Attestation papers? someone else will have to explain them.

You could try military records on Findmypast, they have birth marriage deaths and other records

Heres a helpful site http://www.
the-dicksons.org/army/soldier_search.htm
Sorry cant be more help, if anything else comes to mind Ill post back.

[Bertie]

geoffct - while you do not have everything you want, I just wanted to say you are lucky you have your man's regiment which is a precious thing to have in the absence of any attestation papers! I have at least 2 rellies about which I can find nothing and , as I do not have their regiments, I have an almost impossible task of finding them!

[Peter Goodey]

should I have looked somewhere else for his attestation record?

As he died in service, his attestation document is probably lost. You've looked in WO 12 and it appears that you now have his date and place of enlistment.

The only other place that comes to mind is the collection of Description Books which are mostly in series WO 25. It's usual to find information such as physical description, trade, age and place of birth. This is about as much as you'd find in the actual attestation.

I haven't checked the availability of records for your man's regiment.

Edit: I have now looked at the catalogue and unfortunately it doesn't look very hopeful :( Sorry.

[geoffct]

Thanks for your help. For the present time I shall leave him and move onto his father, which will probably be in a different forum, so thanks once again for your interest.

[Geoffers]

Before you move there is one other place you might try from the comfort of home with a cuppa in hand. It's a slim chance, but as it's free, worth a try.

As you mention your chap was from Newtownards, you might look to see if he was educated at the Royal Military Hibernian School (RHMS), Handily someone has transcribed the admissions (originals commence 1847-ish and are held at TNA in document class WO143) and put them online. Use a search engine to look for 'RMA searcher'

You'll get a hit which has links to the RHMS and also the Royal Military Asylum at Chelsea. The site is simple to use.

It's only a slim chance that he was educated there, but worth a look if only for the purposes of elimination. Information in the admissions includes when a pupil enlisted in the army and the regiment.

[Lawrence W. Crider]

Just a little note on your question about sometimes being absent from the Musters. Men did transfer between regiments, which would show up during the respective muster on the form 20 or form 24 (they were used somewhat interchangably, depending on the regiment). Regiments were also divided into "service troops" (those on deployment somewhere) and "depot troops" (the troops remaining at home). If they haven't been lost or destroyed, there should be copies of both the depot and service musters at the NA.

[Lawrence W. Crider]

A friend has e-mailed that he owns this man's Crimean Medal with S (sic) Clasp. If you would like to contact him, pls advise.

[moulesman]

I have Robert's Indian Mutiny medal disc (not the suspender or clasp - apparently he was entitled to "Central India") I picked it up in a Coin Show in America...!

[geoffct]

A friend has e-mailed that he owns this man's Crimean Medal with S (sic) Clasp. If you would like to contact him, pls advise.

I’ve only just seen this, I’d “lost” this forum I’m afraid. Your information is very interesting and yes I’d really like to contact your friend. Many thanks Lawrence, Geoff.

[geoffct]

I’m sorry for such a long delay in replying but I had “ lost” this forum. Your information is very interesting would you be interested in parting with it? Best wishes Geoff.