Total Transcription - A Waste of Resources?

[Ken Boyce]

Guy Etchells raised an interesting point elsewhere regarding the need for transciptions which did not seem to be followed up on. What follows is my slant on the topic.

Is it really necessary to fully transcribe a census in this day and age where access to the workbooks is readily available to all

It's nice if you can get it but it ain't necessary

The time should be more usefully spent transcribing just sufficient data - name and age - to produce an index (before anyone gets mad I have/am a transcriber of a number of pieces from various censii)

The more detail that is transcibed the more errors creep in and the more laxidazical becomes the norm for so called family history research. If one truely vets all primary sources then surely a simple index is all that's necessary to enable convienient location of the document.

If commercial companies then wish to put the icing on the cake so be it but we should quit bemoaning about the quality or commercial practices used.

And yes I have used a transcription service to obtain Piece/folio references so that I can find all the say London 1891 Hinds in my CD set. And yes I have and do deserving and unusual lookups from my collection of primary references but no longer do this on a reular basis because of the mass of requests now plaguing our hobby to the detriment of companies like our site sponser.

[Geoffers]

Is it really necessary to fully transcribe a census in this day and age where access to the workbooks is readily available to all.....The time should be more usefully spent transcribing just sufficient data - name and age - to produce an index
I have some sympathy with this view. I index the odd piece of information myself to try and help others make best use of their limited time in record centres, or to make it easier for folks to use their CDs purchased from Archive CD Books. My observation may be worng, but in communicating with others over the last few years, I get the impression that many are happy to just to rely on transcripts provided by others.

I like browsing old and original documents, I still get a buzz from looking at a subsidy from 500 years ago, or trying to translate a 1,000 year old land grant in Old English, or even just browsing parish registers, old maps, anything like that. But, I appreciate that not everyone wants to go to that level - or is able to get to record centres in the first place, some have limited funds and have to scrimp and save to buy a single CD. For them, every bit of information is like Gold dust.

It's a tricky problem. I think that those on these forums with more experience need to (and frequently do) try and encourage the newer researchers to use available indices and then refer to the original document.

It must though be accepted that this is a hobby like any others, it does cost money and we don't have the right to be subsidised by others.

[Geoffers]

If commercial companies then wish to put the icing on the cake so be it but we should quit bemoaning about the quality or commercial practices used.I'd disagree with bemoaning the commerical practices used, which in many cases are illegal or border on being illegal and prey on lack of knowledge amongst those new to this hobby.


And yes I have and do deserving and unusual lookups from my collection of primary references but no longer do this on a reular basis because of the mass of requests now plaguing our hobby to the detriment of companies like our site sponser.Here too I can support this. Through a website that I help to run, I received over 4,000 requests for help and advice and responded to them all over a period of several years. About one in six bothered to acknowledge receipt of my replies. I'm not after grovelling thanks, but it is nice to know that someone at least read my response. I now ignore e-mails unless someone is in my address list, and only respond to requests made through these forums and reply through them too.

Geoffers

[mary elms]

The time should be more usefully spent transcribing just sufficient data - name and age - to produce an index ....
The more detail that is transcibed the more errors creep in and the more laxidazical becomes the norm for so called family history research. If one truely vets all primary sources then surely a simple index is all that's necessary to enable convienient location of the document.
Agreed. And this appraoch should also mean that far more material gets indexed making it easier for people to find the information they're looking for.


I like browsing old and original documents
Me too. There's a sense of connection that you don't get from a transcript. On a more practical note, browsing a CD or film of the orignal - rather than buying a single page or looking at a transcription - you get a feel for the nature of the document and, with the censuses, what the area is like and what the major work in the area is. If I hadn't trawled through the 1841 census for Bethnal Green I would never have realised how important Silk was to the area and why it was a good place for my anscestors to make umbrellas in.


but it is nice to know that someone at least read my response.
It's called common courtesy. In the days when FreeBMD contained fewer entries and 1837online didn't exist I was going up to the FRC once a month and I used to allow an hour or so during each visit for lookups. Because I had a waiting list I used to e-mail people when they first contacted me and again before I went. Those who didn't reply to the first e-mail didn't get a second and those who ignored the second e-mail got ignored. It's a matter of self-preservation in the end - no one can work in a vacuum.

Mary.

[Ken Boyce]

Hi Geoffers

Re the icing on the cake bit

I was thinking more of the use of offshore cheap labour to transcribe the censuses in bulk

Regards

[Ken Boyce]

I like browsing old and original documents, I still get a buzz from........

What pumps me up is when transcribing a census piece and finding a few schedules on or just around the corner an obvious strong link to a nearby family - or seeing the strays from some distant county - or seeing the odd collection of stray children (in one case about 50+) housed in non-institutional residences under the care of a "house mother" All of which one knows will likely never come to light from the common practice of requesting name index lookups instead of browsing the neigbourhood in the primary document. An index or a transcription simply does not convey any sense of context.

[busyglen]

It's called common courtesy. In the days when FreeBMD contained fewer entries and 1837online didn't exist I was going up to the FRC once a month and I used to allow an hour or so during each visit for lookups. Because I had a waiting list I used to e-mail people when they first contacted me and again before I went. Those who didn't reply to the first e-mail didn't get a second and those who ignored the second e-mail got ignored. It's a matter of self-preservation in the end - no one can work in a vacuum.

Mary.

Here, here!!

I don't know about others, but I find I will go out of my way to help someone, if they haven't actually `asked' for specific help. ie. Someone abroad asked if I knew where the local Cemetery records were kept, and I responded with the address. However, living 5 mins. away from the Cemetery, and armed with the names, I went to have a look. After 15 mins. I located the grave and sent the relevant details to the researcher who was over the moon. I get such a buzz from helping others and it's not because I want recognition, it's the fun of saying `here you are'. I've even been known to scan local newspapers for obituaries, without being asked. Probably a bit daft, if the researcher finds the details themselves before I have, but the knowledge I gain from doing this is satisfying. I now know more about my hometown and what went on than I ever envisaged. It's a pity that all my ancestors were further afield!

I too have received a lot of help from people, and I believe `what goes around comes around' so I always say `thank you', but it's true, there will always be those who were never taught the simple manners of saying those two little words! :(

Glenys

[Rod Neep]

And yes I have used a transcription service to obtain Piece/folio references so that I can find all the say London 1891 Hinds in my CD set. And yes I have and do deserving and unusual lookups from my collection of primary references but no longer do this on a reular basis because of the mass of requests now plaguing our hobby to the detriment of companies like our site sponser.Please remember to tell that to people when they ask "when is the 18xx census for nnnnnnnnnn going to be released by Archive CD Books". Or for that matter, by S&N, as both of us are nowadays in the position of not covering costs on the replication of censuses.

There are three reasons:
1. the plague of the "lookup syndrome"
2. the illegal copying of CDs
3. the illegal use of the CDs contravening the licence of use

Even the on-line services are suffering from the same problems. Not enough income from people using the on-line indexes and images - too many people wanting the free ride.

Unfortunately, I can see a time coming in the not too distant future, when the lack of income to all suppliers of the real material will dry up to the extent that there will be no more of the real material made available on CDs and online.

Then.... the public, or rather those who feed the "lookup syndrome" will only have themselves to blame. Will it matter? No. Because 95% or more of the public want the free lookups.... and they are in the vast majority. They will win.

Rod

[busyglen]

Then.... the public, or rather those who feed the "lookup syndrome" will only have themselves to blame. Will it matter? No. Because 95% or more of the public want the free lookups.... and they are in the vast majority. They will win.

Rod

I guess then Rod, that Forums such as this or mailing lists, which were intended to help by pointing people in the right direction, have been partly instrumental in the `free lookups'?

Although I have purchased CD's etc. I have also been guilty (if that is the correct word) of asking for confirmation of a family on a census, in order to pinpoint them. But....it is human nature to ask for help if someone is offering.
I don't think `most' people realise that by asking for lookups, they are causing the CD, books, whatever, to eventually fold, due to lack of sales. Until I joined this forum, I hadn't even been aware of Archive CD Books.

This is a great Forum and I have `met' some interesting people and learnt a lot, and I really hope that all the hard work that you are doing for ACDB doesn't go to waste, but sadly, I suspect that you are right in your assumption. :(

Glenys

[Geoffers]

I was thinking more of the use of offshore cheap labour to transcribe the censuses in bulk
This is something which has been discussed on another thread. To make an attempt at indexing accurately, you do need to know the area and names which occur locally. I wouldn't attempt to index anything for the South West of England, or Wales, etc But I think I have sufficient knowledge of Norfolk to make a fair attempt at records there; to work out if the place name is Marham, Martham or Marsham, to establish which Plumstead is meant, to distinguish between the surnames FRAREY and TROREY - which can be difficult; and so on.

Get cheap labour with no local knowledge and unnecessary mistakes are bound to occur.

Geoffers

[mary elms]

Unfortunately, I can see a time coming in the not too distant future, when the lack of income to all suppliers of the real material will dry up to the extent that there will be no more of the real material made available on CDs and online.

Then.... the public, or rather those who feed the "lookup syndrome" will only have themselves to blame. Will it matter? No. Because 95% or more of the public want the free lookups.... and they are in the vast majority. They will win.

Rod
And we will all be poorer - even the 95% - becuase there will be nothing to do the lookups from!

Mary.

[Ken Boyce]

I guess then Rod, that Forums such as this or mailing lists, which were intended to help by pointing people in the right direction, have been partly instrumental in the `free lookups'?



Perhapse the guilty are those of us that spoon-feed the innocent and not so innocent alike. At one time I responded to census lookups by providing the file reference only for which many were truely grateful. What stopped me from even doing that was the number of well meaning people who then openly supplied copies of the image

At one time my forte was locating and pin-pointing old streets and addresses in London from a rather extensive collection of Archive CD PO Directories, Motco and Godrey Maps, modern A_Z, and a self developed program that has the ability to scan the dozen or so principle online 18, 19 and 20C street and place indexes (and gives credit to the authors) for the given reference. If that failed I would resort to a manual search of my extensive collection of PRO and LDS street indexes and if necessary would even follow an Enumerator on his route (I've never come across a female Enumerator - but that's for another thread!) to locate that illusive residential complex "John Doe Place" - great fun for a retired engineer used to logically working through complex problems.

But guess what no one appears interested in locating the neighbourhood these days I haven't seen a request for a difficult street lookup for a long time - I guess a sign of the times where family trees are more important than historical substance. Of course only those who care will respond to this thread and the silent majority will remain silent which is a pity because for the good of our hobby it would be nice if a win win situation could be worked out. - but being a little cynical I equate it to the handicapped parking syndrone - difficult to tell but why are so many users far more dexterious than me but I would not dream of applying for one of those blue and white stickers which are meant for the truely handicapped.

[AnnB]

But guess what no one appears interested in locating the neighbourhood these days I haven't seen a request for a difficult street lookup for a long time - I guess a sign of the times where family trees are more important than historical substance.
But could that not mean that people are doing the 'looking up' for themselves? With all the resources now available, it is not beyond anyone who wants to find out where a place/street is/was to do so for themselves.



I too have received a lot of help from people, and I believe `what goes around comes around' so I always say `thank you', but it's true, there will always be those who were never taught the simple manners of saying those two little words!
I agree entirely with Glenys, and I enjoy helping people out, and will do what I can, sometimes spending ages looking for something which I never find, but I still enjoy it otherwise I wouldn't do it!

I know there are always going to be people who take what they can get, but we can't tar everyone with the same brush. If someone asks for help or advice, that is surely what this forum is all about. I would like to think that if someone is helped by being given information from an index or a transcript, they might think it a good idea to buy a copy of the original on CD to see what else they might find. I know I have bought several CD's from Archive CD Books on the strength of such information, but then maybe I am just naturally curious, and able to afford to do so.
Best wishes
Ann

[Guy Etchells]

I agree but feel the three reasons rather too simplistic.
When I did talks to family history societies the first obstacle I had to overcome was the fact that 95% of the society members had no idea what a newsgroup or a mailing list was let alone a forum.
There are a vast number of potential purchasers out there who have never had the privilege of having a look-up carried out for them.
Thousands of potential sales for those who produce cds; that is one of the reasons why everybody and their dog produces cds for sale.

The problem of low sales is not so much look-ups - manymessage=I agree but feel the three reasons rather too simplistic.
When I did talks to family history societies the first obstacle I had to overcome was the fact that 95% of the society members had no idea what a newsgroup or a mailing list was let alone a forum.
There are a vast number of potential purchasers out there who have never had the privilege of having a look-up carried out for them.
Thousands of potential sales for those who produce cds; that is one of the reasons why everybody and their dog produces cds for sale.

The problem of low sales is not so much look-ups - many of those who ask for look-ups would not purchase a cd whether the look-up is done or not) but rather of market penetration.

I remember I did a talk at a Yorkshire FHS which I was later told resulted in an order worth over one thousand pounds for the society itself, yet before the talk they had no idea such cds were available. That was going back two or three years but I would not be surprised to hear that there were still thousands of genealogists who could not name the producers of cds, unless their own particular FHS carried them.
Cheers
Guy

[busyglen]

I remember I did a talk at a Yorkshire FHS which I was later told resulted in an order worth over one thousand pounds for the society itself, yet before the talk they had no idea such cds were available. That was going back two or three years but I would not be surprised to hear that there were still thousands of genealogists who could not name the producers of cds, unless their own particular FHS carried them.
Cheers
Guy

I agree with you here Guy. A couple of years ago, it was just LDS, SN and whatever FHS's were able to produce, and they were few and far between. Until I `found' British-Genealogy last year by accident, I had no idea that Archive CD Books existed. I often Google to find things, but unless you put in the right criteria, it wouldn't come up.

I have recommended BG and Archive CD books many times of late to people who have never heard of them. So yes.....there are a heck of a lot of potential buyers still out there who don't know what they are missing!

Glenys

[Ken Boyce]

But could that not mean that people are doing the 'looking up' for themselves? With all the resources now available, it is not beyond anyone who wants to find out where a place/street is/was to do so for themselves.



That is a possibility in which case we don't have a problem because people would be buying and/or using the necessary resources to go it alone, but this would seem to be bucking the trend.

[Jo Simpsons]

I have been reading this with interest and feeling very guilty too :confused:

I do love to help people out and have never really thought of the consequenses of how it would be to the retailer :o Even though I have spent a pretty packet for my info. I do always recommend archive cd books on mailing lists etc. and say whats new or on offer. I also subscribe to Ancestry among other things and groups.
I just think that what ever hobby you have the ones who are keen and eager, will buy all the "gear" to progress with it and ones who half heartedly attempt the hobby, and borrow. BUT you can encourage the ones who are new and learning. May be from a look up we could say this is from, as most people do, or you can find more information from www.archivecdbooks.org (http://www.archivecdbooks.org/) what ever and list where the information is available to buy?
What makes me wonder too is that I transcribe for freecen and freereg and have for freebmd. I just think it encourages people to look further, a little bit of info makes you want to know more. Relatives near by, who else was about. I would hate to think my transcribing would deter people from buying their own. May be mind block but I don't see it as being any different than helping with a look up.
Open my eyes so I can see.
Jo :)

[Terry]

Hi, transcriptions and indexes, in my opinion, should only be used to help people to locate family in the census- they should then check the original, because with the best will in the world we all know mistakes happen either because the writing cannot be read or just plain human error. At least with the FreeCEN projects the data is checked after transcription.

[Jo Simpsons]

Thats what I was trying to say, its like a tool to get you where you need to be. Even transcriptions that are checked can still be wrong and you have to write "as is" even if you know it's wrong.

Jo :)

[Ken Boyce]

I would hate to think my transcribing would deter people from buying their own. May be mind block but I don't see it as being any different than helping with a look up.
Open my eyes so I can see.
Jo :)
The thread has moved from the question of transcribing onto the difficult subject of freebies

Dealing with the issue of transcriptions which is how best to utilize the available workforce in the short and long terms

FreeBMD is in effect just keying in of a hardcopy index and cannot be simplified further. I would question the need for the urgent effort of completing it now that the whole index is available commercially. The manhrs could be better redirected for now.

I spent 15UKP in a 3 day binge on the BMD at Xmas and tentatively filled in more early 20C missing links in my family than I have from any source for the past five years. Now comes the really expensive part if I try the cert route to verify my findings.

Incidentaly would not pay by view stop a lot of the abuse of subscription services

If freecen is doing a transcribtion of the complete census record then I would suggest that a fast track of a simple index would be much more useful (including the infamous 1901) - a full index could be produced later if there was a demand.

I'm not familiar with what is being transcribed from the registers or of the situation with regard to access of the primaries

As far as freebies spoiling the pot goes one could debate whether the availability of the free 1881 index has any bearing on the fact that we may never see the 1881 images on CD


Regards

[mary elms]

Incidentaly would not pay by view stop a lot of the abuse of subscription services
Yes and it's the only way I'll pay as I have a very large forgettery and would at some point 'fall for it' with my eyes open just because I was in a disorganised period. But as long as they can catch people with the abuses I'm afraid they'll continue to do so.


If freecen is doing a transcribtion of the complete census record then I would suggest that a fast track of a simple index would be much more useful (including the infamous 1901) - a full index could be produced later if there was a demand.
I would agree with this. We'd get more, faster and it would also have the effect of encouraging people to look at the primary source.


As far as freebies spoiling the pot goes one could debate whether the availability of the free 1881 index has any bearing on the fact that we may never see the 1881 images on CD
Archive CD Books has some of the 1881 registration districts on CD and Ancestry has added the images to the index. However, I suspect that you're right that the index is why this hasn't been a priority - they have to be able make them pay.

Mary.

[Ladkyis]

The plain and simple fact is that everyone wants a bargain and *free* is the best bargain of all. The majority of name collectors do not confirm any information by looking at original sources. I have spoken with people at family history open days who are surprised when I say that they can "Find their ancestor in the 1861 Census index and then look it up more easily on the film or fiche at the library". One gentleman even asked me why he would want to do that when he had found the information in the index.

My suggestion that he could confirm who else was in the household AND see who lived next door was met with an incredulous stare and a "what for? I know what children they had".

Those people who are family historians will want to see the film of the originals whether or not the whole thing was transcribed while the less serious researcher will be happy to get their information second or third hand - and nothing we say will change the way they do things.
Ann

[Rod Neep]

Those people who are family historians will want to see the film of the originals whether or not the whole thing was transcribed while the less serious researcher will be happy to get their information second or third hand - and nothing we say will change the way they do things.
Ann
Quite.... and what's more, they can become extremely antagonistic if you attempt to educate them into what is, after all, good practice. Something along the lines of "How dare you tell me how I should do my research!"

Unfortunately, the "quick fix genealogy" band of people are in the vast majority ;)
Oh well....

Regards
Rod

[SwineTown]

I would be very interested to know what role people on this forum believe that public libraries (in the uk) could, should or actually do play in this debate.

My local library service offers the Complete GRO, Census 41-01, IGI, Parish records and much more on fiche, a wealth of transcriptions, directories, bishops transcripts, wills, etc etc

It also offers free in-house access to Ancestry (library Edition). Many of us make great use of this service and also send enquiries by phone/email/letter/in person on genealogy related questions.

[Peggy]

I'm on a couple of Rootsweb UK county mailing lists. Probably 1/3 of the posts ask for lookups. Without BGF, people would still find lookups, but would be less likely to learn about Archive CD Books. Even libraries do free lookups. About 8 years ago a kind librarian in Ireland found my ancestor in a book, and mailed me the page. Knowing that other surnames of interest were likely to be in it, I hunted for the book and ordered the CD as soon as I found it listed as available from ACDB.

I'd bet that the "quick fix" band will either begin to do research or tire of "genealogy" fairly soon. I saw a survey in which a high % of genealogists cited "the thrill of the chase" as a major reason for persisting. I've had distant cousins send me pages of names and dates, or entire gedcoms. I'm grateful, but most people listed aren't "real" to me. The ones I've sweated over & chased for years count the most.

Peggy

[Guy Etchells]

Hi, transcriptions and indexes, in my opinion, should only be used to help people to locate family in the census- they should then check the original, because with the best will in the world we all know mistakes happen either because the writing cannot be read or just plain human error. At least with the FreeCEN projects the data is checked after transcription.
I would suggest that using transcriptions in such a manner is to miss out on the greatest advantage they provide for beginners; experience.

I get the impression that some feel transcriptions and their use & abuse is a new phenomenon, it is not. I made use of transcripts 40 years ago to help my research.

Suggestion -
In my opinion one can get best value from transcripts by using them as a learning aid.
How many times have you seen requests asking what a census entry or register entry says. Transcripts provide the answer, benefit from the experience of other researchers by using transcripts to interpret difficult handwriting.
Cheers
Guy

[Ladkyis]

There! you see! that's the reason why people like Guy are so important on forums like this. They have experience and they are pleased to be able to share that experience with everyone. I have often used transcripts to decipher handwriting but had never actually realised "out loud" as it were, that this was what I was doing.

So many times Guy or Geoffers and others have vocalised something that I do but had not translated into words. This is what we need, as well as transcriptions we need the people to teach us how to use them well.
Ann

[Clive Blackaby]

Transcripts provide the answer, benefit from the experience of other researchers by using transcripts to interpret difficult handwriting.
Cheers
GuyThat doesn't help much if (for example) the transcript puts the population of Wellington Somerset in SOMALIA.

Transcripts and indexes carried out without the knowledge of the subject are worse than useless. Those who sell or market them with little or no attempt at quality control are doing us all a great dis-service. And I do not exclude The PRO 1901 census from this.

[Ken Boyce]

I would suggest that using transcriptions in such a manner is to miss out on the greatest advantage they provide for beginners; experience.

I get the impression that some feel transcriptions and their use & abuse is a new phenomenon, it is not. I made use of transcripts 40 years ago to help my research.

Suggestion -
In my opinion one can get best value from transcripts by using them as a learning aid.
How many times have you seen requests asking what a census entry or register entry says. Transcripts provide the answer, benefit from the experience of other researchers by using transcripts to interpret difficult handwriting.
Cheers
Guy

An interesting different side of the coin but there are a number things that detract

Many do not get anywhere near the transcript of a document but get some stranger who are often themselves novices to do the transcript look up the transcript having itself often been produced by a novice - blind leading the blind leading the blind?.

The question of the short and long term efficient use of resources still applies - basic index vs full transcript

There is no comparison between the skills needed to transcribe a one liner such as a census Name and age entry and that required for transcribing say a will or a census occupation and place of birth entry.

The greatest experience gained is that of the transcriber - at least it is/was for me.

Regards

[Frank W]

If freecen is doing a transcribtion of the complete census record then I would suggest that a fast track of a simple index would be much more useful (including the infamous 1901) - a full index could be produced later if there was a demand.


Hi Ken
I've posted a reply to this at
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/cendexes/basic_indexes.html

(to avoid the Forum 'duplicated-text' bug)

Not intended as a put-down, though its mainly negative.

Regards ..........Frank W

[Ed McKie]

[QUOTE=Ken Boyce]

If freecen is doing a transcribtion of the complete census record then I would suggest that a fast track of a simple index would be much more useful (including the infamous 1901) - a full index could be produced later if there was a demand.

The problem with simple indexes is that in many instances, particularly in large conirbations and with commons names they are a complete wast of the transcribers time. For instance there was available many years ago an index of some London areas of the 1851 cenus. just surname, forname and age with the rg number. Now with a failrly common name- say Hall, let alone Smith this barebones detail would not help the average researcher to identify the families they were looking for so as to look at the correct enumeration district. The only way was to search the census districts yourself- so therefor the index was no help.

If an index is going to be substantially useful for a reasonable numer of people then barebones is not going to be enough.

I transcribed a section of the 1891 in this way, when first available ,for a FHs and on completion realised this very real drawback to the work I had done. I drew the attention of the organisors to this, but they failed to see the point I was making, so I did no other sections.

[mary elms]

When I started out on my family history and was faced for the first time with looking through censuses these simple surname indexes were a godsend. Looking for ABEL in the East End of London (a very common name in that locality) they gave me much needed clues as to where to look and taught me how to refernce my findings. And most of all they taught me the value of seeing the original. No instant results but a steady build up of information that increased my knowledge both of the family and the area in which they lived.

Perhaps what we need is not either transcriptions or indexes but both as both seem to have value as teaching aids - which seems from all the comments on this thread to be their real value. All good things can & will, unfortunately, be abused. It's probably down to us to help people to learn how to get the best value from them

Mary.

[busyglen]

What makes me wonder too is that I transcribe for freecen and freereg and have for freebmd. I just think it encourages people to look further, a little bit of info makes you want to know more. Relatives near by, who else was about. I would hate to think my transcribing would deter people from buying their own. May be mind block but I don't see it as being any different than helping with a look up.
Open my eyes so I can see.
Jo :)

I feel the same as you Jo, although I can see other people's points of view.

I also have transcribed for FreeCen and I think it is the nearest thing to `perfect' (apart from Archive CD Books of course) that a transcription can get. As it also goes through checking and validation, a lot of the `errors' can be rectified...however, they are not infallible! A good lesson I learnt, is that it taught me how to look at the writing and to understand the way to decipher difficult words. I find this experience invaluable in helping me now, when I look at the CD's.

I guess that we shall never be able to please everybody, and therefore I think there is room for all methods, whether it be indexing, full transcribing, or CD's. Each fulfils a way of research, that a few years back was unheard of.
In this way, people make up their own minds on how they want to proceed, and use whatever ways they can afford, whether it be monetary or time.

I have gained information from all sorts of sources....indexes, BMD, FHSoc. fiche, CD's on-line searches, forums, mailing lists and simple `Googling'. So...as I say, I think there is room for all methods. If you can't find what you want in one way, you explore another. However, I have to say that if everything I wanted to know was on Archive CD Books, then `no contest'!

Glenys

[Ken Boyce]

The problem with simple indexes is that in many instances, particularly in large conirbations and with commons names they are a complete wast of the transcribers time......Now with a failrly common name- say Hall, let alone Smith this barebones detail would not help the average researcher to identify the families they were looking for so as to look at the correct enumeration district. The only way was to search the census districts yourself- so therefor the index was no help.

If an index is going to be substantially useful for a reasonable numer of people then barebones is not going to be enough

Hi Ed
Thanks for putting a different slant on the issue

I agree that a comprehensive transcript has the potential for greater flexibility. However in practice the usefulness is limited by the sophistication of the search engine and the ability of the masses to use it. - there is a vast difference between the online and CD versions of the LDS 1881 full index search engine and few know how use either to full advantage. My experience with the search engnes of the online full indexes is limited to that of the 1901 which, despite the errors in the transcriptions, is reasonably sophisticated enough to take advantage of the full record transcription. How do the other commercial and free services compare.

Dealing with the Smith and Jones problem the basic index reduces the number of records to search from 100% to say 5% still quite a number. However, there are ways in which to reduce the work by downloading each screenful of names, ages, and file refs as text to say Excel, converting text to columes and then using the sort and filter features to group into households by Reg Districts - sounds complex but is in fact quite straightforword several hundred records can be downloaded and sorted in 1-2hrs - however not for some people

Regards