Illegitimacy talk

[tigercub]

I recently attended a talk on "illegitimacy". It seems things have not changed over the many years. The young women were put under so much pressure that they often lied about who the father of the child was. So one has to be careful in our research just where we tread.They say that right back around 1750 only 3% of births were "out of wedlock", it's not certain as to the % today. Even so,we were told that even today, if the parents marry after the children come along. the children then have to be re-registered to make them legitimate. It makes for interesting reading. I have always been aware that a mother is the person who brought us up & not necessarily as the person who gave birth. I guess that makes sense, just like surrogacy. The dead don't seem to have any rights but I would think we would have to be careful approaching the living as it could be classed these days as stalking, if we have someone determined to point out that we are not wanted in a family.

[MarkJ]

Hi,
I have moved this to a seperate thread as it seems to be more appropriate to have its own thread under "Illegitimacy" rather than being added to your other thread.

Mark (Moderator)

[Peter Goodey]

It seems things have not changed over the many years

I would have said that was one thing that has changed a lot!

[Hollytree]

I would have said that was one thing that has changed a lot!

I worked in the 60's with a girl who (my mother said with bated breath) had a son and not a husband! Today they seem to do the other way around, have the babies and then have the wedding, with the children as bridesmaids and pages! Heigho

Anne

[Guy Etchells]

In pre Victorian times it was quite commonplace to have children before marriage.
It was not frowned on except when the parent(s) could not support the child.
If the father did not accept his parental responsibilities the “parish” made the mother reveal who the father was and he was hounded for payment.

During Victorian times a stigma developed about illegitimacy that still survives today.
People were frightened to talk openly about it and the subject developed a taboo status.

Today there is still the remains of the Victorian stigma about illegitimacy though most accept illegitimacy if the child does not become a burden to the state.
As with earlier times if the father does not accept his parental responsibilities the “child support agency” (the modern version of the “parish” make the mother reveal who the father is and he is hounded for payment.

No, things have not changed much ;)
Cheers
Guy

[Peter Goodey]

This have changed immensely within the last fifty years. When once there was little option for an unmarried mother other than adoption, changing social attitudes and the consequent legal and social security changes have reversed the situation and the rate of formal marriages continues to decline.

[JillyNutton]

Hi all,

Can I ask if it was standard practice for women with illegitmate child(ren) to marry much older men? I have quite a few female ancestors who have 1 or 2 children and then have married widowed men with families. Are they marriages of convenience?

thanks
Jilly

[kaysii]

Having looked at some bastardy orders in the late 18th century recently, it was interesting that the phrasing used when a man was made to pay was that the reputed father provided "no evidence why he isn't the reported father." It would seem you had to prove your innocence rather than being proved guilty.
Kaysii

[terrysfamily]

A relation of mine had an illegitimate child back in the mid 50’s and was treated like dirt even before the birth of her child. Even being told by the local mid-wife that she would make it very difficult for her to have the child anywhere in her district.

The mother to be rang a hospital in a neighbouring district and told them of her plight. The hospital said she could go there to have the child. She arrived a month before the child was born and helped out with the patients until the due date. After giving birth, her brothers said she wasn’t allowed anywhere near home until she had given the child up for adoption.

She had no means for caring for the child and no family that would look after it whilst she was out at work. Therefore, she put the child up for adoption.

Strange that her sister had an illegitimate child 4 years later and was allowed to keep the child at home.

The mother of the adopted child still speaks of her child to this day, very often with a tear in her eye.

She has often said she wished she had never given the child up but she was forced into it.

She heard off the adoptive mother at the time the child got married (they wanted to make sure that the intended was no relationn) and was told that the child doesn’t want to see her.

Heartbreaking.

It isn’t always that the child wasn’t wanted, sometimes people and situations conspire to make the mothers give up their children no matter how much they want to keep them.

[Tatanna]

In the UK and USA it is rare (I think) to find an illegitimate child given up for adoption where the true parents cannot be located. In Italy, complete anonymity is given to a mother who wants to give up her child. She, or a family member or even the midwife, puts the child in the 'ruota' a kind of enclosed revolving wheel, turns the wheel so the child revolves to the other side of the wall into which the wheel is embedded. She walks away and the nun or nurse picks up the child and gets it adopted or fostered. When Italian records say parents unknown, they are not kidding. If, at some point in the future, they go to City Hall and can identify the child, it is returned to them and the surname changed on the birth record, no formal adoption necessary.

[Jeuel]

It was the mother and the child who were condemned, not the father. I've got a few instances of illegitimacy in my family tree, all occurring in rural areas, and the children were all looked after either by grandparents or an aunt.

I did find one poor lad, enumerated with his grandparents, named as grandson in the relationship column, but in the occupation column someone had recorded "bastard"!

Of course even with "legitimate" births there's no guarantee that the father named on the cert is the biological father.