adoption possibility?!?!?!?!?!?!

[terraheyez2k7]

I know I'll get told off but i'm not sure exactly where this post should go. This is going to be abit long winded but I shall endeavour to explain it the best i can. My Mothers and Grandfathers name is Currie. As is my Great Grandfathers on his wedding and death certificate. My mum has always told me that her grandfather's (my Great Grandfather's) surname was Beresford and that he was left on the doorstep of his Grandparents. I'm starting to look into this. I visited my Great Aunt and she gave me a mini certificate of Albert Beresford born 1892. I then ordered the cert. It told me that he was born Albert Beresford on Sept' 1892 in the marylebone workhouse, there was no father listed and the mother was named as Isabella Beresford, formally Curran, laundress of 40 Fission street Marylebone. Informant I Beresford, mother, 8 Nightingale street, Marylebone. On his wedding he is named as Alfred William Currie, father listed as William Currie. On his death he is named as William Alfred Currie.

As for the father a Isabella Curran married Edwin Bereford Jun 1886, marylebone. As far as i can see no Edwin Beresford died during pregnancy unless he was in the army. Which as of yet i have not looked into. I am of course looking into the possibility of some form of adoption.

I have found a William Beresford, aged 14, in the 1901 census living at the Marylebone infirmary. As of yet i don'y have any idea whether this is my guy or not, bit of a coincidence though!

For my whole family to have taken the Currie name surely he would of been officially adopted by someone? There also could be a link with Curran/Currie perhaps a name being written down wrong. Any ideas on this would be very helpful

All the best, Shaun.

[carolchipp]

Maybe the Curran is a mispelling of Curry. Could he have been left with his maternal grandparents (the Currys) and taken their name if he was raised by them? Perhaps look for an Albert Curry in the 1901, living with grandparents.
There's an Albert Curry b. 1892 in London on the 1901 but I can't view it - no sub now.

[RobinC]

There's this Albert in 1901:

Thomas W Curry 40
Martha Curry 40
Henry A Curry 21
John Curry 19
William Curry 16
George Curry 14
Albert Curry 9
Sarah A Curry 5
Percy Curry 2

Albert was born in Chalk Farm, London.

[Lizzy9]

An Isabella Curran married Jun qrt 1886, Marylebone, on the same indexed page is Edwin Beresford, vol 1a page 1089.

[Wirral]

I visited my Great Aunt and she gave me a mini certificate of Albert Beresford born 1892. I then ordered the cert. It told me that he was born Albert Beresford on Sept' 1892 in the marylebone workhouse, there was no father listed and the mother was named as Isabella Beresford, formally Curran, laundress of 40 Fission street Marylebone. Informant I Beresford, mother, 8 Nightingale street, Marylebone. ...........As for the father a Isabella Curran married Edwin Bereford Jun 1886, marylebone. As far as i can see no Edwin Beresford died during pregnancy .............
I
Edwin BERESFORD died S1890 Paddington 1a 41 age 22. This would fit with a child born illegitimately to his widow Isabella, 2 years after he died.

1891 census (copyright National Archives) RG12/254 folio 159 page 2, 217 Hackney R (or St, or Pl), Haggerston, London
Elizabeth BERESFORD, dau, S, 22, Shirt Machinist, London, Stepney
Isabella BERESFORD, head, wid, 46, Shirt machinist, New York, America

I know Elizabeth is a better fit for age as the mother, rather than Isabella, but there is a banns entry for Isabel CURRAN & Edwin BERESFORD 1 March 1885 at Christ Church, St Marylebone

[Lizzy9]

Sorry for posting the marriage details which you already had - I missed that in your opening post.

A possible census result for Isabella?

1871, Marylebone. RG10; Piece: 169; Folio: 46; Page: 47 (Crown copyright, in care of TNA)

William Curren 45 born Cork
Julia wife 42 Cork
Mary dau 18 London
Isabella dau 4 London

[AdeleE]

There appears to have been two children of the marriage of Edwin Beresford & Isabella Curran, found on the Ancestry London Births & Baptisms database:

Baptisms - St Augustine Kilburn - 23 Mar 1887

Parents Edwin & Isabella Beresford, 8 Pembroke Road, costermonger

Edwin, born 27 Aug 1885
Alfred William, no date of birth recorded

I think I have spotted son Edwin on the 1901 census at RG13; Piece: 45; Folio: 29; Page: 49 (census Crown copyright in care of TNA

Jane Hickey, head, widowed, 47, b. London, Chelsea, blind
Edwin Beresford, boarder, single, 15, errand boy post(?), b. London, Marylebone
John Curran, visitor, widowed, 47, bricklayer, b. London, Chelsea

11 Hanover Cottages, Hammersmith

Then this marriage from the Ancestry London Marriages database:

St James Norlands - 16 Nov 1914

Edwin George Beresford, 27, Bachelor, labourer, 12 S. Katherine's Road, father Edwin Beresford (deceased), labourer
Annie Louisa Buckingham, 24, Spinster, domestic servant, 12 S. Katherine's Road, father John James George Buckingham, carman

Witnesses: Isabella Smith, Annie Murphy

And this indexed marriage registration:

Isabella Beresford / Albert E Smith
Year: 1912
Quarter: Mar
District: Kensington
Volume: 1a
Page: 282

While this doesn't answer your question regarding adoption, it does provide a few leads into the whereabouts of the rest of your great-grandfather's possible birth family.

[Waitabit]

I know I'll get told off but i'm not sure exactly where this post should go. All the best, Shaun.
That'll be interesting! don't often see people getting' told off' here.

Usually a gentle nudge to a better Forum from my experience.
Watch & see.

[terraheyez2k7]

Thank you everyone! You have all been very helpful. Lots of avenues to explore. Thank you very much!JUst a quick one regarding the marriage...Is it normal for a marriage to be registered a year later?

[terraheyez2k7]

grrrr!This is wrecking my head! In front of me i have a birth certificate from 1892, but an Albert William was baptised in 1887. Very complicated!

[AdeleE]

but an Albert William was baptised in 1887. Very complicated!

An Alfred William was baptized on 23 Mar 1887 as per my post #7.

And I have found this baptism on the Ancestry Births & Baptisms database:

Register of Biths in the Workhouse of St Marylebone

Date of birth: 23 Sept 1892, mother Isabella Beresford, baptized 3 Oct, Alfred.

Perhaps the first Alfred died or was adopted out as well.

[terraheyez2k7]

Thanks adele, and thanks for the correction! So there was definatly an Alfred born in the workhouse 23 Sept 1892, that is good news! Do you have any idea how i could find out if they were adopted out?

Shaun.

[AdeleE]

An Isabella Curran married Jun qrt 1886, Marylebone, on the same indexed page is Edwin Beresford, vol 1a page 1089.


Do you have any idea how i could find out if they were adopted out?

I don't have any expertise in London adoption records, but if the family story is that Alfred William Beresford/Currie was left on his grandparents' doorstep, perhaps obtaining the marriage registration of Isabella Curran and Edwin Beresford will help in identifying his grandparents.

Lizzy9 has suggested a potential Curran family and the marriage registration would certainly help in establishing if this is the correct family.

[christanel]

There was no legal process for adoption in England until 1927, before this it would have been a private arrangement between the families concerned. This happened to my Dad in 1911. His full birth certificate has his birth parents' names. At age 14 his "adoptive" parents had to obtain a birth certificate for employment purposes.
For a year or so I was convinced that my Dad's two sets of parents were related because of a surname common to both but originating in different counties. Then the 1911 census came out and there were the adoptive parents living two doors up from the brother of the birth mother. Bingo!

[Kerrywood]

So there was definatly an Alfred born in the workhouse 23 Sept 1892, that is good news!

I don't suppose it helps at all, but the creed register for the Northumberland Street workhouse in Marylebone (online via Ancestry) indicates that Isabella BERESFORD, aged 24, a Roman Catholic, was admitted to the Lying-in ward on 14 September 1892 from 40 Lisson Street.

Alfred was born on 23 September 1892 and was discharged on 15 October 1892, with his mother. No destination is stated.


Isabella Beresford, formally Curran, laundress of 40 Fission street Marylebone.
So that'll be Lisson Street :wink5:

[Lizzy9]

I don't suppose it helps at all, but the creed register for the Northumberland Street workhouse in Marylebone (online via Ancestry) indicates that Isabella BERESFORD, aged 24, a Roman Catholic, was admitted to the Lying-in ward on 14 September 1892 from 40 Lisson Street.

The possible 1871 census for Isabella I posted earlier had her parents born Cork Ireland, which means the family were most likely of the Roman Catholic faith.

I looked at the 1891 census address 40 Lisson Street, unfortunately Isabella wasn't there.

[AdeleE]

In paging through the creed register for the Northumberland Street workhouse found by Kerrywood, I've found 7 year old Edwin & 5 1/2 year old William Beresford brought in by the police and placed in the Boys Ward on August 31, 1892. A notation records their mother being admitted 14 Sep 1892. The two boys have been discharged to St Vincent's Home on 24 Sep 1892.

[Kerrywood]

In paging through the creed register for the Northumberland Street workhouse found by Kerrywood, I've found 7 year old Edwin & 5 1/2 year old William Beresford brought in by the police and placed in the Boys Ward on August 31, 1892. A notation records their mother being admitted 14 Sep 1892. The two boys have been discharged to St Vincent's Home on 24 Sep 1892.
Well done, Adele. :smile5:

In that case we might be able to find them in the St Marylebone Board of Guardians' Register of Children at RC Schools, also on Ancestry . . .

[Kerrywood]

The possible 1871 census for Isabella I posted earlier had her parents born Cork Ireland, which means the family were most likely of the Roman Catholic faith
That 1871 looks good because Isabella is aged 4 there. She was said to be 24 on admission to the workhouse in 1892.

[AdeleE]

Just found them! Image 137 and 138

William was removed from St Vincent's Home to Convalescent Home Margate 1/5/97
Edward (sic) was removed Nov 20 1894 Mother's request (does this mean in care of mother?)

Mother's addresses: both crossed out ?29 Mitcham Street / Lisson Grove + a few more markings.

I need some assistance in deciphering the addresses....

London, England, Poor Law Records, 1834-1940 > Westminster > Saint Marylebone > Register of Children > Register of Children At Rc Schools > 138

[Kerrywood]

Mother's addresses: both crossed out ?29 Mitcham Street / Lisson Grove + a few more markings.

I need some assistance in deciphering the addresses....

London, England, Poor Law Records, 1834-1940 > Westminster > Saint Marylebone > Register of Children > Register of Children At Rc Schools > 138

I think it's W.H. (for workhouse, deleted), 29 Mitcham Street, Lisson Grove, N.W.

[Lizzy9]

Excellent work, ladies.

[Kerrywood]

I think it's W.H. (for workhouse, deleted), 29 Mitcham Street, Lisson Grove, N.W.
Not there in 1901, unfortunately, but it might be worth looking around the area?
RG13; Piece: 115; Folio: 46; Pages: 32-33

[AdeleE]

I'm wondering if Isabella Curran/Beresford is already living with Albert Smith in 1901. Here is a family at 35 St Katherine's Road in 1901, the same street that son Edwin George Beresford is living at when he marries in 1914.

Albert Smith, head, married, 28, bricklayer's labourer, b. London, Notting Hill
Isabella Smith, wife, married, 30, laundress wash, b. London, Marylebone
Thomas Smith, son, 3 mo, b. , London, Notting Hill
Ellen Smith, daughter, 6, b. London, Marylebone

Kensington, London
RG13; Piece: 24; Folio: 69; Page: 20
(census Crown copyright in care of TNA)

And perhaps given the gap in ages of the children, daughter Ellen is a Beresford?
And Isabella's dropped off her son Edwin in 1901 with her brother John Curran (see post #7).

[Kerrywood]

I'm wondering if Isabella Curran/Beresford is already living with Albert Smith in 1901. Here is a family at 35 St Katherine's Road in 1901, the same street that son Edwin George Beresford is living at when he marries in 1914.

Albert Smith, head, married, 28, bricklayer's labourer, b. London, Notting Hill
Isabella Smith, wife, married, 30, laundress wash, b. London, Marylebone
Thomas Smith, son, 3 mo, b. , London, Notting Hill
Ellen Smith, daughter, 6, b. London, Marylebone

Kensington, London
RG13; Piece: 24; Folio: 69; Page: 20
(census Crown copyright in care of TNA)

And perhaps given the gap in ages of the children, daughter Ellen is a Beresford?
And Isabella's dropped off her son Edwin in 1901 with her brother John Curran (see post #7).

I was just going through the SMITHs but you are quicker :smile5:
It looks very persuasive, given the address in the marriage register for Edwin in 1914.

St Katherine's Road is now Wilsham Street, W11

But where is Alfred in 1901 - or have I missed a trick? (I came to this thread a bit late ... )

[AdeleE]

I think it's coming together now... 1911 census:

Albert Smith, Husband, Married 13 years, 38, Laundryman, b. Kensington
Isabella Smith, Wife, Married 13 years, 4 children born, 3 still alive, 42, Laundry Woman, b.Chelsea
Ellen Smith, Daughter, 16, Factory, b. Marylebone
Thomas Smith, Son, 10, School, b. Kensington
Emma Smith, Daughter, 6, School, b. Kensington

15 Fowell Street Notting Hill
RG14PN154 RG78PN5 RD2 SD2 ED15 SN268
(Census Crown copyright in care of TNA)

Marriage from the Ancestry Marriages & Banns database:

St Clements Church, Notting Hill, Kensington - 16 Aug 1914

George Ayton, 19, bachelor, labourer, 97 Becklow Road, father John Ayton, labourer
Ellen Beresford, 19, spinster, ----, 28 Bangor Street, father Albert Beresford, laundryman

witnesses: Samuel James Parkinson, Elizabeth Kirk

[AdeleE]

But where is Alfred in 1901 - or have I missed a trick? (I came to this thread a bit late ... )

I don't know....He's Alfred William something ...Beresford....Currie.....? And I can't find him in 1911. It goes back to the original question. How did Alfred William Beresford become a Currie on his marriage registration in 1920?

And a question that hasn't been asked of Shaun: How did Alfred William Currie's family/descendants come to have his original birth certificate that named him as a Beresford?

[Lizzy9]

I was just going through the SMITHs but you are quicker :smile5:
It looks very persuasive, given the address in the marriage register for Edwin in 1914.

St Katherine's Road is now Wilsham Street, W11

But where is Alfred in 1901 - or have I missed a trick? (I came to this thread a bit late ... )

No, Kerrywood, you aren't missing a trick. We do need to find Alfred, if possible, in 1901. I've searched and better searched and come up with zilch.

Adele's approach is the same as mine, ie: search for other family members' and just maybe the elusive one will show up! We live in hope!

I have also searched the 1911 census looking for Isabella and Albert with children Thomas and Ellen, again no result.

But, they must be somewhere! Maybe transcribed wrongly - though I find it difficult to imagine how Smith could be mistranscribed - so, they may be living as Bersfords', or Currans'/Curries'.

My bedtime now, I'll leave you two ladies to it. Good luck

[Kerrywood]

I think it's coming together now... 1911 census:
Isabella Smith, Wife, Married 13 years, 4 children born, 3 still alive, 42, Laundry Woman, b.Chelsea


Yes, I think that is the right Isabella. A birthplace of Chelsea ties in with this birth index. She is aged 4 in the 1871 that Lizzy found.

Jun Qtr 1867
CURRAN Isabella
Chelsea 1a 234

The deceased child referred to in 1911 could be the Albert Edward SMITH baptised 2 April 1899 at All Saints, Notting Hill. Address 20 Hunt Street, father a labourer.


It goes back to the original question. How did Alfred William Beresford become a Currie on his marriage registration in 1920?
And a question that hasn't been asked of Shaun: How did Alfred William Currie's family/descendants come to have his original birth certificate that named him as a Beresford?

Both good questions -- for tomorrow!
Good Night :smile5:

[Lizzy9]

Both good questions -- for tomorrow!
Good Night :smile5:

I agree.

Good night - tomorrow is another day.

[Lizzy9]

I have also searched the 1911 census looking for Isabella and Albert with children Thomas and Ellen, again no result.



But, Adele did find them - oh deary me! I'm obviously tired out and no use to man nor beast right now.

See you tomorrow, when - hopefully - I'll have a clearer head!

[terraheyez2k7]

Hey! U lot have been busy! Came in from work and lots of useful infomation thanks alot! I'm going to order the marriage cert. but if the last one i ordered was anything to go by it could take a couple of weeks to get it! Thanks again this has been really helpful.

Shaun

[terraheyez2k7]

oh and as for the question, i dont't know where the beresford cert came from. I'm guessing it's been passed down. I'm going to hopefully go see my great aunt (Alfred Currie/Beresfords daughter) on Sunday. On the death cert i have William Alfred Currie's DOB is 23rd Sept 1892. He died 13th Dec 1969 in newham. Another point is at some time he must of moved to east london. Thats where my Grandad grew up. Would it be a fair assumption to make that they were living on the street? And Isabella lied about her address out of pride?

Thanks...the ever grateful Shaun.

[terraheyez2k7]

I'm sorry i keep posting but I keep having random idea and it wont let me edit :( i have just found this

Orphan Working School and Alexandra Orphanage; 1758; Haverstock Hill, N.W. : Convalescent Home, Harold Road, Margate. OfficeS:- 73, Cheapside, E.C.; For orphan and other necessitous children, admitted between infancy and 11 years of age. Children remain until about 15 years of age. Upwards of 6000 children have been benefited.

on victorianlondon.org/charities/charities.htm (put www. in front)

Would this be where he would of been moved to?

Oh and another thought, isit possible he was "adopted" by a curran, grew up a Curran but on his wedding they wrote Currie? He didnt have the best start in life, and probably couldnt read or write.

[Kerrywood]

Orphan Working School and Alexandra Orphanage; 1758; Haverstock Hill, N.W. . . . Would this be where he would of been moved to?
If he was in the care of the St Marylebone guardians and was sent away to school, the most likely place is St Vincent's, the RC school at Mill Hill where we found yesterday that his brothers had been sent. The registers are online (via Ancestry) but as yet I haven't had time to look further at them.

The other place he might have been sent is the St Marylebone School at Southall, but as the family is recorded as Catholic an RC school does seem more likely.

He could also have been boarded out with a family and be enumerated under their surname in the census, which may be why he hasn't been found as yet. Lots of possibilities!


Oh and another thought, is t possible he was "adopted" by a curran, grew up a Curran but on his wedding they wrote Currie? He didnt have the best start in life, and probably couldnt read or write.
Quite possible.

Back later ... :seeya:

[Kerrywood]

I haven't been able to find him in any of the online registers of the schools used by the St Marylebone Board of Guardians. These are not indexed, I could have missed him, and you might want to try looking yourself if you can access Ancestry, perhaps at a library?

At the London Metropolitan Archives there are a number of other resources for the St Marylebone Board of Guardians that could be searched. These include some agreements for the adoption of children, apprenticeship records, registers of boys sent to training ships etc. All of these would be standard destinations for children in the care of the poor law union. If you can't get to the LMA yourself, they do offer a research service.

On the other hand, he may not have been in the care of the union at all. He may instead have been taken in by a family on an informal basis. But unless that was arranged through the union there is unlikely to be any paper trail.

I'm afraid it's back to searching the census, unless anyone has other ideas.

[terraheyez2k7]

Hey. Yes i've got an ancestry sub. To be honest i didnt even know about that database, its wuite fascinating to read really. I was looking through the RC schools of westminster yesterday, got half way through and had enuff...only about 80 more pages to go! I'll just keep searching, i was hoping that by going back a little bit it would make it easier to go forward if you know what i mean.

Thanks for all your efforts anyway, you've really helped me on my way

Shaun.

[AdeleE]

I'm going to hopefully go see my great aunt (Alfred Currie/Beresfords daughter) on Sunday. .

Potential questions to ask your great aunt which may help further your research:

Did Alfred Beresford/Currie serve in WW1?
Did he know from childhood that he was adopted?
Did he have contact with his birth mother or any of her family/children?
Is there any indication that Alfred Beresford himself changed his name to Currie to avoid debts, a previous liaison etc?
And of course, any details on the provenance of the birth certificate that is in the possession of his descendants.

[terraheyez2k7]

I can answer one of them, Yes he did serve in WW1 apperently. I've got a few photo's which need uploading so that maybe someone can indicate a regiment.

What exactly do you mean by provenance?

Shaun

[geneius]

Hello

Have not read all 4 pages, Adoption pre 1930 was usually a private arrangement either by the child's mother or family or by a 'charitable' organisation Adoption as we understand it was not introduced until the circa 1927

It was not unusual for the child to be taken in / fostered by a family member, i.e a couple who had no children...not even change its name....

geneius

[Kerrywood]

Have not read all 4 pages, Adoption pre 1930 was usually a private arrangement either by the child's mother or family or by a 'charitable' organisation

. . . or arranged by a poor law union, as was common at this period in London.

[AdeleE]

I can answer one of them, Yes he did serve in WW1 apperently. I've got a few photo's which need uploading so that maybe someone can indicate a regiment.

What exactly do you mean by provenance?

Shaun

Hi Shaun,
Good to hear that he served in WW1. Hopefully his records survived and they can yield some clues, if we can discover what name he used at that time in his life.

By provenance, I mean the history of the ownership of the certificate, starting with who first obtained it and its chain of ownership after that.

[terraheyez2k7]

Ah i see. I will ask, the cert is dated 1957, so i'm guessing its probably to do with a pension. But i will ask on sunday, i'll also try to find what name he used for the army, on his marriage it does say ex army under his occupation.

[terraheyez2k7]

Been to Great Aunt Joyce's. She said the beresford name came about when he tried to get a pension under the name Currie. They refused him because there was no record of a Currie. Apperently they looked into it and he got told he was a Beresford. Apperently he wasn't very happy about this because he grew up thinking he was a Currie, he must of been adopted at an early age for him to believe this was his name. Is there a way i can ask the pension people about what happened?