Anstruther Catholic Marriage Index

[junedye64]

I noticed that Mutley mentioned this Index on another thread.

I have a couple who were probably catholic and I have never found a marriage for.
They are Thomas Scott and Catherine(Kate) Burns.
If anyone has access to this index would they do a look up for me please.
The only dates I can suggest are when the children were born which was 1863 and 1868 St. Johns Wood Marylebone.
They wern't in the 1861 census and Kate and the children were alone in 1871 as Thomas died just before the census was taken.

June

[Mutley]

Hello June,
I do have the CD, in my hand, sadly my CD Drive on the PC is not working at the moment. It makes a terrible grinding noise. :(
As soon as it is fixed I will take a look for you.

Do you know any more details of Thomas and Kate, there are some other non-conformist registers on the Internet.

[junedye64]

Hi Mutley

My Grandmother Annie Norah Scott was Thomas and Kates first daughter ( I think) born in 1863. However I have had a thread on here before trying to trace her birth so I didn't want to start another thread on the same subject. As I've never found a marriage for them the Index was another possibility. Look forward to the grinding noise going.

Thanks

June

[Birder]

Hi,

Any chance you could look up a Joseph Martione/Ellen Cleary (or variants) I am looking for a marriage c1863 and bapt. of a Joseph c1864 and Louis 1867.
Would be so grateful, catholic marriages are hard to find.
thanks
Birder

[Mutley]

Sorry folks, my CD drive has sadly died. It is not worth replacing as I will shortly have to buy a complete new system. :(

The Anstruther Catholic Marriages and Baptism Index (http://www.parishchest.com/index.php?cmd=viewproduct&cat=&id=P80695&pageOffset=0) is available from Parish Chest for only £8.00 and worth every penny if you only find one of your family. :wink:

[Colin Moretti]

Hi,

... catholic marriages are hard to find.
thanks
BirderThe GRO marriage certificate will tell you the name of the church where the marriage took place, with that information you can check in Michael Gandy's Catholic Missions and Registers 1700-1880 to see where the church's registers are held - they're quite likely to be with the parish priest still. Michael's book will also tell you if the registers have been transcribed, the dates covered and who has a copy.

Anstruther's baptism index is mainly adult baptisms in London & Essex from about 1795-1888 so it's far from comprehensive. The marriage index has far more entries (over 30,000) but again is mainly London & Essex, up to 1940. It is not just an index of the registers but also has entries taken from The Times, Catholic Record Society publications, The Gentleman's Magazine, The Tablet, Burke's Peerage, the Catholic Magazine and the University Press.

Colin

[Birder]

Sadly I cannot find a GRO note and as before mandatory registration was hoping to find it in an index.
Thanks for the help i will go those routes.



The GRO marriage certificate will tell you the name of the church where the marriage took place, with that information you can check in Michael Gandy's Catholic Missions and Registers 1700-1880 to see where the church's registers are held - they're quite likely to be with the parish priest still. Michael's book will also tell you if the registers have been transcribed, the dates covered and who has a copy.

Anstruther's baptism index is mainly adult baptisms in London & Essex from about 1795-1888 so it's far from comprehensive. The marriage index has far more entries (over 30,000) but again is mainly London & Essex, up to 1940. It is not just an index of the registers but also has entries taken from The Times, Catholic Record Society publications, The Gentleman's Magazine, The Tablet, Burke's Peerage, the Catholic Magazine and the University Press.

Colin

[Peter Goodey]

as before mandatory registration was hoping to find it in an index.

I'm not quite sure what you mean but all marriages in England and Wales from 1837 must be registered. To put it another way, if it wasn't registered, it wasn't a marriage.

Furthermore, an 1863 Roman Catholic marriage would have to be in the registrar's register (as if it were conducted in a register office), not in a church register. That cuts out one possible source of error.

Marriage was not as universal among Roman Catholics in the 19th century as some people think.

[Kerrywood]

Please see Peter's reply above.

Also, is this the family in 1871?

1871 census (record held by TNA, Crown copyright)
RG10; Piece: 371; Folio: 80; Page: 61
4 Richbell Place, St George the Martyr, Holborn
Ellen Marttioni? Head Wid? 25 Tailoress born Ireland Dublin
Joseph Marttioni? Son Unm 7 Scholar born Middlesex Soho
Louis Marttioni? Son Unm 5 Scholar born Sussex Brighton

Perhaps if you'd like to tell us what information you already have about the family (birth certificates? other census?), members might be able point you in the right direction for further research.

[Birder]

Yes, I believe this is the family as I have them in 1881 similarly. I have followed a Joseph Horris (sic)Martione marrying (under Martin but this is definitely him) and the family continued with either Martone or Martin mostly Martin which makes it difficult. In subsequent census' he has consistently said born 1864 St. Giles area. Louis/Lewis changed to London later. I have followed Louis to NY 1888 and back again 1899, I have all his children. Joseph briefly went to NY 1894 until 1895. My difficulty is that the marr. certs for both children stated the father was also called Joseph and was a wood carver and it is known the family were Italian.But I cannot find him, his death, or the marriage of the parents. I have followed an Ellen Cleary, father Jeremiah, in the St. Giles area but cannot find her marriage to see if it is her. Family know she was Irish. I have found her siblings marrying in London but not her.I have also looked to see if the children were registered as Cleary. Not finding a positive in GRO I was hoping maybe to find a marr or at least baptisms in RC church in the area. I appreciate the comment that registration began in 1837 however in a number of books I have read that it was expensive for the poor (which I believe this family was) and that it was not actually mandatory until c1874.Any assistance greatly appreciated to get past this brick-wall.

[Birder]

I would also mention that I have seen the film of the actual marr. of Louis in NY and whilst transcribed as mother Elsie Clory the writing is very poor indeed but easily read as Elnn /Ellen. Father Joseph.

[Peter Goodey]

I appreciate the comment that registration began in 1837 however in a number of books I have read that it was expensive for the poor (which I believe this family was) and that it was not actually mandatory until c1874.

No. Nothing changed in 1874 regarding marriage. The position is as I described it in message #8 above. You may be getting confused with the Chinese whispers that circulate about birth registration.

There is no such thing as an unregistered marriage. Many people lived together as man and wife without being married.