Thomas SMITH, packing case maker (again)

[Endsor]

I am hoping that one of the fathers listed here will turn out to be Thomas SMITH, packing case maker, father of Thomas SMITH, packing case maker/joiner (born c.1831-33), so any help narrowing down the roster of candidates would be very much appreciated. All of these christenings of Thomas SMITH the younger took place at Manchester Cathedral.

christened: 11 Apr 1831; father: Thomas SMITH; mother: Mary

christened: 13 Apr 1831; father: Thomas SMITH; mother: Mary

christened: 25 Sep 1831; father Thomas SMITH; mother: Mary

christened: 01 Jul 1832; father: Thomas SMITH; mother: Anne

christened: 03 Oct 1833; father: Thomas SMITH; mother: Rachel

[uksearch]

I could not find the first or last baptisms...maybe the dates are incorrect? The middle three did not have the occupation of packing case maker.

UK

[Endsor]

Thanks for looking into this, UK. Who knows - the first one may just have been a duplicate or mistranscription of the 13 April entry. But I double checked the IGI and foolishly neglected to notice that the last Thomas SMITH I listed was BORN 03 Oct 1833, but only CHRISTENED*censored*25 Jun 1837 at the Cathedral.

Would that I couldn't have SMITHs in my line, but I'm stuck with 'em.

[Endsor]

Hi, UK (and everybody): Just to confirm: for the record of the Thomas SMITH who was christened 01 Jul 1832 at Manchester Cathedral, you noted that the father's occupation isn't "packing case maker" - but is there any occupation listed at all? Something close?

I ask because I finally found the Thomas SMITH family I've been after on the 1851 UK Census:

dwelling: 42 Henry Street, Manchester
Thomas SMITH; head; married; age 46; b. Manchester; Packing Contractor
Ann SMITH; wife; age 45; b. Manchester
Thomas SMITH; son; age 17; b. Manchester; Packing Contractor
Martha SMITH; dau.; age 15; b. Manchester; [?] Maker
Sarah SMITH; dau; age 10; b. Manchester
Thomas JONES; lodger; age 17; b. Bolton; Warehouseman*censored*

And I was wondering if I entirely should rule out the Thomas SMITH, Jr. christened 01 Jul 1832.

Also, the IGI lists a Thomas SMITH who married Ann JONES 11 Oct 1824 at Manchester Cathedral - the JONES makes me hopeful that this is the couple I'm after. Any more details to be had on their marriage?

Thanks as always -

[uksearch]

On reflection...very close...chest maker.What's the piece number and folio number on the census.Henry St (if its the one in Ancoats) is a pain to search.

UK

[Endsor]

Here's the SMITH household data:

1851 UK Census
h. 42 Henry Street, Manchester
HO107/2225 folio 222

Thanks for giving it a second look!

[Endsor]

I tried to find the right candidates on the IGI for the two other SMITH children listed on the 1851 Census. These are the only ones I found that were close:

Martha SMITH
christened: 16 Sep 1840 Manchester Cathedral
father: Thomas SMITH
mother: Anne

Sarah Ann SMITH
christened: 21 Jan 1838 Manchester Cathedral
father: Thomas Smith
mother: Anne

The dates don't quite mesh with the ages given on the 1851 Census, but they do with the following SMITH family on 1861 Census - which may be the same family sans Thomas father and son. Or I could just be wrong all around.

1861 UK Census: h. 5 Foxlows Court
Ann SMITH; widow; age 56; b. Salford
Martha SMITH; age 20; b. Manchester
William SMITH; age 17; b. Manchester
Sarah Anderson; daughter; age 24; b. Manchester
Joseph Anderson; son in law; age 24; b. Manchester
Sarah Ann Anderson; granddaughter; age 5; b. Manchester
Thomas Anderson; grandson; age 2; b. Manchester

[uksearch]

Thomas son of thomas & Rahael SMITH M/c porter
born5th Oct 1832

UK

[uksearch]

Thomas SMITH of this Parish & Town of M,Labourer & Ann JONES of this P & T of M,Spinsterwere married ...by Banns...this 11th Oct 1824.both made their mark.Witnesses Robt HILTON (CO) & John CAWLEY.

UK

[uksearch]

Quote from ENDSOR


I tried to find the right candidates on the IGI for the two other SMITH children listed on the 1851 Census. These are the only ones I found that were close:

Martha SMITH
christened: 16 Sep 1840 Manchester Cathedral
father: Thomas SMITH
mother: Anne

Sarah Ann SMITH
christened: 21 Jan 1838 Manchester Cathedral
father: Thomas Smith
mother: Anne


Sarah Ann's father is list as a Chest Maker and Marth's father is listed as a Trunk Maker.

UK

[uksearch]

QUOTE FROM ENDSOR
I ask because I finally found the Thomas SMITH family I've been after on the 1851 UK Census:

dwelling: 42 Henry Street, Manchester
Thomas SMITH; head; married; age 46; b. Manchester; Packing Contractor
Ann SMITH; wife; age 45; b. Manchester
Thomas SMITH; son; age 17; b. Manchester; Packing Contractor
Martha SMITH; dau.; age 15; b. Manchester; [?] Maker
Sarah SMITH; dau; age 10; b. Manchester
Thomas JONES; lodger; age 17; b. Bolton; Warehouseman*censored*


I read the occupations somewhat differently from the person who supplied you with the Census information.What's the "censored" bit?????

HO 107 2225 folio 222
42 Henry st (Ancoats)
Thomas SMITH..H..M..46..Packing Case Maker..Lancs,Manchester
Ann..W..M..45..House Keeper..Manchester
Thomas..S..U..17..Packing Case Maker..Manchester
Martha..D..13..Silk Winder..Manchester
Sarah..D..13..Silk Winder..Manchester
Thomas JONES ..Lodger..U..17..Warehouseman..Lancs,Bolton.

UK

[Endsor]

Thanks for double-checking - and correcting - the above 1851 census piece. Not sure where the censored thing came from - some odd key-command, I think.

We're zeroing in on the right Thomas SMITH family, at last. I have a few more IGI candidates for the elder Thomas SMITH (born c.1805) and wonder if any of the following answer to the profession of chest maker, trunk maker, packing case maker, joiner, or the like.

Thomas SMITH
Nancy THORPE
married: 23 Dec 1827 Manchester Cathedral

Thomas SMITH
Ann WOOD
married: 01 Mar 1829 Manchester Cathedral

Thomas SMITH
HANNAH GODLEY
married: 12 Jun 1831 Manchester Cathedral

Thomas SMITH
HANNAH SMITH
married: 05 Jul 1831 Manchester Cathedral

Elizabeth Smith
born: 11 Nov 1843
christened: 14 May 1845 Manchester Cathedral
father: Thomas SMITH
mother: Anne

[uksearch]

No 1 was a crofter...at least that's what it looked like to me!
No 2 I did not find...there were only 5 marriages that day.
No 3 was a widowed weaver.
No 4 was a fustian cutter.
No 5 not done.

UK

[uksearch]

Man Cath 14 May 1845 Elizabeth dau of Thomas & Ann SMITH.Manchester.Casemaker
Born 11/11/1843

UK

[Endsor]

Thanks for Elizabeth SMITH's data - she's the one I was after.

I wish the marriage records of her parents Thomas and Ann SMITH were more conclusive, but it appears that whoever transcribed the IGI data on Thomas SMITH and Ann WOOD married: 01 Mar 1829 at Manchester Cathedral must have goofed. Maybe they meant 03 Jan 1829?

Now, any hope of finding on the 1841 Census a household such as this?

h. 233 Oldham Road? 42 Henry Street? Manchester
Thomas SMITH; head; married; age 36; packing case maker/chest maker/trunk maker/joiner
Ann SMITH; wife; age 35
Thomas SMITH; son; age 8
Sarah SMITH; dau; age 3
Martha SMITH; dau.; age 1

[uksearch]

I had already checked the transposed date...no luck with that.
The Oldham St address could take hours to find, possibly the same with Henry St.I will check the street index.


UK

[Endsor]

OK - how about THIS couple - could they be the Ann and Thomas SMITH (trunk, chest, case, packing case maker, joiner) I've been after? (I previously overlooked them on the IGI)

THOMAS SMITH
Spouse: ANN LAMB
Marriage: 06 MAR 1825 Manchester Cathedral

[uksearch]

Parish Church of Manchester 1825
Thomas SMITH Bachelor of this Parish & Town of Manchester,Trunk Maker and Ann LAMB of this Parish & Town of Manchester,Spinster were married in this Church by Banns this 6th March.Thos signed Ann marked.Witnesses Robt HILTON (CO) & ??????? ??????????

UK

[Endsor]

Excellent! This must be the right couple. Thank you so much! I gather the names and professions of their respective fathers are absent from the record?

In light of the dates, I wonder if these two children could be theirs:

Robert SMITH
christened: 26 Jun 1825 Manchester Cathedral
father: Thomas SMITH
mother: Ann SMITH

Ellen SMITH
christened: 11 May 1828 Manchester Cathedral
father: Thomas SMITH
mother: Anne

[uksearch]

Details of the bride & grooms fathers were required after July 1837.

UK

[uksearch]

Excellent! This must be the right couple. Thank you so much! I gather the names and professions of their respective fathers are absent from the record?

In light of the dates, I wonder if these two children could be theirs:

Robert SMITH
christened: 26 Jun 1825 Manchester Cathedral
father: Thomas SMITH
mother: Ann SMITH

Ellen SMITH
christened: 11 May 1828 Manchester Cathedral
father: Thomas SMITH
mother: Anne
The first one is listed as Manchester.Joiner.

The second one is Manchester.Chestmaker.

UK

[Endsor]

I'm still on the trail of Thomas SMITH, case, packing case, chest, or trunk maker. As trunk (etc.) maker seems to have been a family trade and as Thomas SMITH's eldest son was named Robert, I wonder if the following Thomas SMITH was son of a trunk (etc.) maker.

Thomas SMITH
christened: 27 May 1804 Manchester Cathedral
father: Robert SMITH
mother: Martha

And if the above Robert SMITH was, in fact, a trunk (etc.) maker, I wonder if this is the same man:

Robert SMITH
spouse: Martha MOOR
married: 11 Seo 1803 Manchester Cathedral

Any help, anyone? Thanks.

[uksearch]

QUOTE

I'm still on the trail of Thomas SMITH, case, packing case, chest, or trunk maker. As trunk (etc.) maker seems to have been a family trade and as Thomas SMITH's eldest son was named Robert, I wonder if the following Thomas SMITH was son of a trunk (etc.) maker.

Thomas SMITH
christened: 27 May 1804 Manchester Cathedral
father: Robert SMITH
mother: Martha

Sorry...all it states is

Thomas son of Robert & Martha SMITH.

UK

[uksearch]

QUOTE
And if the above Robert SMITH was, in fact, a trunk (etc.) maker, I wonder if this is the same man:

Robert SMITH
spouse: Martha MOOR
married: 11 Seo 1803 Manchester Cathedral

Any help, anyone? Thanks.26-05-2005 02:18 PMManchester Parish Church 1803
Thomas SMITH of this Town & Parish of Manchester(?),Ostler & Martha MOOR of the Parish & Town of Manchester(?),Widow were married..by Banns..this 11th Sept.Both marked,no witnesses.

UK

[Endsor]

Thanks again, UK. I guess those folks are a no-go. But I'll attempt to limit my search for the parents of Thomas SMITH, trunk maker (born c.1804-05 Manchester), to only the most viable candidates.

Pigot's 1821-22 directory lists a John SMITH, trunk-maker, at 184 St. George's Road, and I wonder if he is father of either one of the two Thomas SMITHs christened 28 Oct 1804 and 16 Mar 1806 at Manchester Cathedral, both sons of John and Catharine SMITH.

And I wonder if this John SMITH is the same one who married Catharine LEAH on 27 Jan 1794 at Manchester Cathedral. (The IGI actually lists two marriages of John SMITH and Catharine LEAH: the one above, extracted from the register, and one dated 05 Aug 1797, submitted by a LDS member, so I gather the 1794 date is the correct one).

One of their bona fide offspring, John Leah SMITH, was christened 20 Aug 1798 at St. Clement's Church, Manchester.

I hope that the profession of John SMITH might be found on one of these registers. Any help would be greatly appreciated. No hurry!

[uksearch]

[QUOTE=Endsor]Thanks again, UK. I guess those folks are a no-go. But I'll attempt to limit my search for the parents of Thomas SMITH, trunk maker (born c.1804-05 Manchester), to only the most viable candidates.

Pigot's 1821-22 directory lists a John SMITH, trunk-maker, at 184 St. George's Road, and I wonder if he is father of either one of the two Thomas SMITHs christened 28 Oct 1804 and 16 Mar 1806 at Manchester Cathedral, both sons of John and Catharine SMITH.


I did not find the Oct 28 1804 baptism,the IGI listed it as Manchester not Manchester Cathedral.

1806 Coll PC of Manchester 16th March
Thomas son of John & Catherine SMITH.

UK

[uksearch]

[QUOTE=Endsor].

And I wonder if this John SMITH is the same one who married Catharine LEAH on 27 Jan 1794 at Manchester Cathedral. (The IGI actually lists two marriages of John SMITH and Catharine LEAH: the one above, extracted from the register, and one dated 05 Aug 1797, submitted by a LDS member, so I gather the 1794 date is the correct one).

Coll & PC of Manchester 1794
John SMITH of this Parish & Town of Salford,Cordwainer & Catherine LEAH of Salford,spinster were married...by Bannns...this 27th January.Jsigned,catherine marked.Witness John HARRISON (CO).

UK

[uksearch]

[QUOTE

One of their bona fide offspring, John Leah SMITH, was christened 20 Aug 1798 at St. Clement's Church, Manchester.


The PRs for this time were unreadable.Where did you get the information from?

UK

[Endsor]

That's odd. I re-checked the IGI and there are four different records for the 28 Oct 1804 christening, but the extracted one says it occurred at Cathedral, Manchester. The St. Clement's record for John Leah SMITH also came from IGI - maybe they were sloppy that day.

It's all acadmic, though, because at this point I don't have any other indication beyond the hunch gleaned from Pigot's that these are the folks I'm after.

So I'll let you off the hook for now - and thanks for following these leads!