JOHN CHARLES - THOMAS CHARLES link?

[Bookman]

I have already written about this link that I am trying to form (if there is one) on the Merionethshire forum, where Thomas Charles can be found.

As my progress there has halted I am trying to approach the link from the other side of the chain. I have a marriage cert. that shows that Eliza Charles married John Jones in Merthyr Tydfil in 1850 and that her father JOHN CHARLES was a CABINETMAKER. She was apparently born in Monmouthshire about 22 years earlier. I think her age is unreliable as in later census returns she seems to add a couple of years each time.

I would like to trace this John Charles who presumeably was in Monmouthshire when his daughter was born. Perhaps he was married there. I have found an 1851 census of Merthyr Tydfil with John Charles, cabinetmaker, and a daughter Eliza aged 18. This could be them, but it is a little odd that she was married the year before (1850).

I would be most grateful if anyone can give me a lead on this JOHN CHARLES.

Regards
Bookman

[John Nicholas]

Hello Bookman,

Is there more information on where in Monmouthshire she was born? Perhaps the most helpful site is a free enquiry site and yahoo discussion group called monfh (just google it). You have to register to join the group but there are quite extensive transcriptions of Monmouthshire registers for you to search.

Good luck,
John

[Bookman]

Hi John

She was born in Pontypool, although other records suggest Trevethin - which may, in the end, be the same place. I know they are in the same area.

I am now going to try your "monfh" discussion group and see where it leads.

Thanks ever so much, this search for a link has been hanging around me for a long time.

Kind regards

Bookman

[John Nicholas]

The same site has a parish map, which will show you which parishes to look in - Trevethin and Panteg are two of the larger ones in the Pontypool area, but there are others too. Also bear in mind the possibility of non-conformism, where the records are sparser.
John

[Bookman]

Hi John
I have been to the Monfh site and registered - still waiting to be accepted. Your point about non-conformism is apt as Eliza Charles was married in a Calvanistic Methodist chapel in Merthyr - and Thomas Charles of Bala was also a Calvanistic Methodist. Here's hoping I get to the bottom of this search.
Kind regards
Bookman

[helachau]

You can access Monmouth Parish Records w/out registering if you google 'monmouth parish records on line', select 'Genuki. Genealogical Research Informatiion etc', select 'Church Records' and finally 'Monmouth Parish Record Transcriptions'. I was checking Trevethin earlier this week.

regards

[Bookman]

Hello helachau
I have taken up your advice and found Elizabeth Charles born 6/6/1833 to John and Mary Charles in Trevethin, Monmouthshire. Also, I have found a marriage record between John Charles and Mary Williams for 10/9/1832 - about 9 months before Elizabeth was born.
I have a rather difficult to read 1851 census from Merthyr showing a John Charles (68) and daughter Elizabeth (18). It is a little odd that she is seen as his daughter/housekeeper a year after she was married, but I suspect she falsified the marriage cert giving her age as 22 when she was only 17. Perhaps her father did not know about the marriage. The census also says that the father (John Charles) was born in Carmarthenshire, but there does not seem to be same easy access to Carmarthen parish records as for Monmouth.
Still, I feel I am making progress. Many thanks for your help, it has been most encouraging.
Regards
Bookman

[spison]

Hi Bookman,
I can't help with your research but if it makes you feel better I have my GGgrandmother never appearing on a census with her husband and on one she is living with her three children with her parents and all of them have her parents' surname. I have the marriage certificate so I know they were married.
Jane

[Bookman]

Hello Jane
I find the Internet amazing. What are you doing out in Australia when I'm searching for a relative in Wales? I can still remember the days when going Down Under was by boat and it was like going on a very long holiday just to get there. Those were the days when cricket was at a much slower pace!
Really, I am delighted that we can 'talk' and be involved without time or distance making much of a difference. Thank you for taking an interest and for your words of encouragement.
Kind regards
Bookman

[helachau]

Bookman,
So pleased you appear to have got a result.
John (55), Mary (45), Elizabeth (7) and a 2nd daughter Margaret (1) were living in Coity, Bridgend on the 1841 Census (copyright TNA).

I'm due a visit to Carmarthen shortly (combining a to visit the Archives with purchasing seeds in the local market). Could check out your John if required?

regards

[Bookman]

helachau
You are brilliant!! I have tried, in the past, to find John Charles in the 1841 census without any success. It is all the more amazing that he was in Coity, as I grew up in Aberkenfig which is just 3 miles from Bridgend. (Apart from a hundred years difference, our paths could have crossed!).
I would be especially grateful if you could find out anything about John Charles when you are in Carmarthen, provided it does not distract you from what you need to do for yourself.
Many thanks for your help so far and the offer to look further for me.
Kind regards
Bookman.

[helachau]

Bookman,
While there was no chance of you and John crossing paths there's every possibility that our paths may have crossed. From the tone of one of your earlier posts ("leisurly voyage to Australia, the slower pace of cricket") we would appear to be of the same era. I'm a Bridgend boy, though I haven't lived there some years. But living just down the road in Swansea I visit fairly often, moreso now that I use the Archives there.
The 1881 Census has my gt grandfather "Licensed Victueller, Star Inn, Aberkenfig".
I'll be off to Carmarthen shortly and will check out your John + anything else it may throw up.

regards, helachau