Trying to find a will

[markmorgan]

I have found a reference to a will on the FindMyPast "Index to death duty registers 1796 - 1903"


PCC AND COUNTRY COURTS 1848-1848 WILLS
Testator: Attwater, Alexander H
Residence: Exmouth, Devon
Executors: Ann Attwater, same place
Court: PCC:Exeter
Register: 3
Folio: 666


Under court it appears to say PCC:Exeter although PCC stands for 'Prerogative Court of Canterbury' doesn't it? Unless it is referring to the Peculiar Court of the Dean and Chapter of Exeter, but that should be PCDE.

I have asked Devon Records Office and they haven't got it - I have already bought his executor Ann Attwater's (nee Faulconer / Noakes) will from them. The National Archives Online haven't got it indexed either so I'm assuming they haven't got it.

Where do I go next or do have have to conceded that it may have been destroyed in the bombing of Exeter in 1942?

Thanks,
Mark.

[Vance Mead]

I checked in Documents Online, but they didn't have a PCC will for him. However, they have some Admiralty records for him from the Royal Navy Continuous Service Engagement Books in 1847.

[Peter Goodey]

I too think PCC stands for Prerogative Court of Canterbury.

I'm not familiar with the FMP implemenation but the index includes wills and admons. You didn't avoid death duty by omitting to write a will :D.

Vance says there's no PCC will so perhaps it's an admon.

Now that you have the index reference, I would suggest that the next stop is the actual Death Duty Registers in series IR 26 at the National Archives.

[Kerrywood]

Court: PCC:Exeter

Looking at the image, it is definitely a will and not an admon. I don't think it says PCC, but Pec: Exeter, presumably an abbreviation for the Peculiar Court of the Dean and Chapter of Exeter (as mentioned above).


I have asked Devon Records Office and they haven't got it
Where do I go next or do have have to conceded that it may have been destroyed in the bombing of Exeter in 1942?

The Devon Wills Project (http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/DevonWillsProject) acts as a sort of finding aid to what survives ... but maybe you've tried that already?

As Peter says, it would be worth looking at the Death Duty Register itself (at TNA Kew), as that may be the only information that survives in relation to the probate. The register entry should give the testator's date of death, the names of the executor(s) and beneficiaries, the value of the estate and of individual bequests, and should specify any duty paid.

But looking again at the image of the index, there is something written in the far right column which I suspect could be NE ( = no entry, indicating that no duty was payable). :(

Kerrywood

[markmorgan]

However, they have some Admiralty records for him from the Royal Navy Continuous Service Engagement Books in 1847.
Thanks for that. I'd got one of those records but I've just downloaded the second one. They are actually both for his grandson born in 1847.


Now that you have the index reference, I would suggest that the next stop is the actual Death Duty Registers in series IR 26 at the National Archives.

As Peter says, it would be worth looking at the Death Duty Register itself (at TNA Kew), as that may be the only information that survives in relation to the probate.

Will this involve an actual visit to Kew? Or do they provide a internet / postal service for copies? I have other death duties I could look up and a three year court case too, so maybe I should take a visit myself.


I don't think it says PCC, but Pec: Exeter, presumably an abbreviation for the Peculiar Court of the Dean and Chapter of Exeter
Looking at it again myself, I think you could be correct with Pec.


The Devon Wills Project acts as a sort of finding aid to what survives.
I've looked at their lists, including the one for the Peculiar Court of the Dean and Chapter of Exeter, but it is not listed and I haven't contacted them either. I guess they may be able to help too and also may be interested in indexing the information I have about the existence of a will so I'll drop them a line.


But looking again at the image of the index, there is something written in the far right column which I suspect could be NE ( = no entry, indicating that no duty was payable).
I hadn't noticed that! Does that mean there will be no entry in the IR26 death duties registers?

Thanks for your help,
Mark.

[Kerrywood]

Will this involve an actual visit to Kew? Or do they provide a internet / postal service for copies? I have other death duties I could look up and a three year court case too, so maybe I should take a visit myself.

They used to provide copies of DDR entries through online ordering, but they appear to have changed policy on this, as several recent requests have failed. One of the reasons is that the register page at this period is very large, and it doesn't copy well. I'd advise visiting yourself, if you can, especially if you have other things to look at.


Does that mean there will be no entry in the IR26 death duties registers?

There should be a register entry, since a page number is cited. If the index does say NE (and that is just one of several possibilities), there will have been no tax liability, and consequently the register entry will be less detailed. But there should be something there and it's worth a look, especially if no will survives.

To order the relevant register you will need to convert the page number in the DDR index to an IR26 piece number. There have been several BG threads explaining how to do this. I'll post the link in a minute, if I can find the thread ;)

Kerrywood

[Kerrywood]

you will need to convert the page number in the DDR index to an IR26 piece number. There have been several BG threads explaining how to do this.

This post by arthurk (http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/showpost.php?p=204248&postcount=12) explains how to convert the numbers.

This was written at a time when copies could be provided online by TNA, but the same principle applies when finding the relevant microfilm at Kew, though of course you can get guidance from the staff when you're there. ;)

Kerrywood

[markmorgan]

Many thanks Kerrywood.

I found this quote on another site


Wills of the Diocese of Exeter were destroyed in the Blitz, but were calendared in typescript before WW2; these calendars are in the Westcountry Studies Library.

http://www.buildinghistory.org/wills.shtml


I'm not sure what they mean by calendared in typescript but I'm guessing it means something like written up in date order. Anyone any ideas? I think I'll contact this library too to see what they have.

Mark.

[Kerrywood]

I'm not sure what they mean by calendared in typescript but I'm guessing it means something like written up in date order.

I would expect it to be a typed list of probate records arranged in chronological order of the grant of probate, giving basic details such as name of testator, date and place of probate, perhaps (if you are very lucky) the name(s) of executor(s) and the value of the estate.

It could be worth an enquiry, but the DDR entry would probably give you more details.

Kerrywood

[sidney easton]

PCC = Perogative Court Of Chancery.
Chancery Lane, London.
Dealt With large wills that were unresolved.

[Vance Mead]

I'm curious about the Prerogative Court of Chancery. I googled it and had a few hits, but not many. There is nothing about it on the National Archives site - lots about High Court of Chancery and Prerogative Court of Canterbury, but not Prerogative Court of Chancery. Its records are not still at Chancery Lane, are they? I thought they had all been transfered to Kew. I know the Court of Chancery dealt with trusts, estates and inquisitions post mortem, but I didn't know they also had wills. Are there any indexes available?

[arthurk]

I think there's been some confusion, and the information from The National Archives is correct here. PCC normally refers to the Prerogative Court of Canterbury, and the High Court of Chancery only got involved in probate matters if there was some kind of dispute.

I don't know if there's an index to chancery cases, but I suggest you head to the Research Guides (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/researchguidesindex.asp) at TNA; look down the list for Chancery and Wills - the one entitled "Wills and Probate Records" mentions Chancery cases among other topics.

Arthur