Utter Confusion - Fresh Eyes Required

[Colin Rowledge]

My Odgers are 'bugging me'!!

I've posted the info before, reviewed the responses and analysed them but still cannot fathom it out.

If I post my conclusions on a new thread will forum members not get mad at me?

Thanks

[Thomasin]

Go ahead and we'll have a fresh look. I got quite fond of your Odgers, those who wanted to be found.

Thomasin

[Geoffers]

Go ahead Colin, it often helps to put things out in order, to see if they make sense.

If you do this in a new thread and it relates to another thread(s), would you include the URL(s) of the other threads so that everyone can easily view them and make sure that they don't dupliacte anything already done, or come up with suggestions that have been shown to be the wrong path.

[Colin Rowledge]

Go ahead Colin, it often helps to put things out in order, to see if they make sense.

If you do this in a new thread and it relates to another thread(s), would you include the URL(s) of the other threads so that everyone can easily view them and make sure that they don't dupliacte anything already done, or come up with suggestions that have been shown to be the wrong path.

Question:

How do I include the URL's as a link? - I've just been posting the THread references in my post

[Sue Mackay]

Question:

How do I include the URL's as a link? - I've just been posting the THread references in my post

Bring your old thread up on the screen.

Highlight the URL (bit beginning http://...) at the top of the screen

Right click and Copy

Open new thread. Sometimes easier to do this in a new window.

Right click and Paste

[Colin Rowledge]

http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50104
http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51477&highlight=Odgers

Hope thjis works for my Odgers link.


Please review and ask away any questions you have.

[Colin Rowledge]

Hopefully, after reading the links in post #6 you'll be less confused than I am!!

Isaac Odgers

I have certificates and other evidence to prove the following:
Isaac is the son of Joseph Odgers and Elizabeth Ann formerly Dunstan. He was born January 28, 1885.
Isaac married Elizabeth Tresidder November 3, 1906

The marriage of Joseph and Elizabeth was in Redruth in 1880 and their 1st son John Henry was born shortly thereafter so that as of the 1881 census [Crown Copyright - TNA] the 3 were living at Treweeg, St. Stithians [RG11/2329/111/15] Joseph's occupation was a Stone Cutter.

In 1885, along came Isaac. The 1891 census should show the 4but it doesn't. What it does show is [RG12/1845/94/14] at Penbroath, Stithians are the following:
Thomas Dunstan age 56 - Master Mason
Ann Dunstan age 53 - wife
John Odgers age 10 - Grandson

1901 census is even worse. This time the only Isaac that fits the age parameter is living with another family. This time there are 2 oyher Odgers [presumably brothers], neither of whom I've seen before. Living at Treskewis, St. Stithians [RG13/2238/187/13]

1906 he [Isaac] marries Elizabeth Tresidder. They have a couple, possibly 3 children, and because of her infidelity [while he is in the US] they part and he goes back to the US

Then the story gets picked by the grandson of Isaac's relationship with my Grandmother's sister.

If this lot isn't confusing enough then I'll await a response before I add details of the other Isaac Joseph Odgers

Cheers

[blue eyes]

Hi Collin,

Would this be Elizabeths 2nd marriage.

1889

District Redruth
Oct/Nov/Dec 1/4

Elizabeth Ann Odgers

Grooms:

George Harris
Joseph Phillips

It may be the the other two Odgers children could be Phillips.

[blue eyes]

Possibly Isaac may be under Isiah Phillips in 1891.

Class RG12
Piece 1845
Folio 52
Page 13

TNA Crown copyright.

[Colin Rowledge]

Hi Blue Eyes
Don't think so.

Isaac was 1st. narried in 1906 when Elizabeth was 18. I do know that after they split she had more kids that were registerd under the names Trseidder/Odgers [up to about 1916]

Told you it was a mess!!!

[blue eyes]

Hi colin,

I meant Isaac mothers 2nd marriage not his wifes, sorry if I didnt make myself clear. :)

1901 has a Lillie Jane Phillips she is with the 1891 family, plus Peter and Joseph, also on the 1901 same page as Elizabeth Philips are a Dunstan family.
I do think this Isiah is your Isaac.

[Colin Rowledge]

Hi colin,

I meant Isaac mothers 2nd marriage not his wifes, sorry if I didnt make myself clear. :)

1901 has a Lillie Jane Phillips she is with the 1891 family, plus Peter and Joseph, also on the 1901 same page as Elizabeth Philips are a Dunstan family.
I do think this Isiah is your Isaac.

OK - no problemo.

1901 census [Crown Copyright - TNA] has tne following for 1901- Crown copyright RG13/2238/187/13:Treskewis, St. Stithians
Phillips El.? Married - Head - age 43
ditto Lillie Jane - Dau - age 11
ditto Jos. Hen. - Son - age 8
ditto Elizh. Anne - Dau - age 6
ditto Edwin Charles - Son - age 1

Odgers Joseph - Stepchild - age 16
ditto Isaac - ditto - age 15
ditto Peter - ditto - age 11


Joseph, could well be be the son born between John Henry and my Isaac and Peter was born before something happened to 'old-man Joseph' in 1890. That could well account for John Hen. being with his grandpaents in 1891.

I'm still grasping for a life-saver but does this make sense?

Colin

P.S.
Sorry for the delay in responding

[Colin Rowledge]

When I get to the 2nd part of the puzzle you may understand why I was totally befuddled by this mess.

Colin

[Colin Rowledge]

I've just checked the 1891 census [crown copyright - TNA] after sending my reply to Blue Eyes post and unfortunately I think we're back to square 1

Here's why. RG12/1845/52/13 lists the following:
Phillips Joseph - Head - Married - age 38
ditto Elizabeth A. - Wife - age 31
ditto Mary An - Daughter - age 13
ditto Edward J - Son - age 9
ditto Joseph - Son - age 7
dittp Iasiah - Son - age 6 [transcribed as Isaac in 1901 census]
ditto Peter - Son - age 4
ditto Lilliey Jane - Daughter - 8months

With the exception of Lillie Jane, these kids appear to be from the marriage of Joseph and Elizabeth Ann Bennett [FMD Dec. q. 1871 vol.5c. page 459.]

If something happened to [his] Elizabeth A. and he married another Elizabeth A. [mine] why in 1901 when she [mine] completed the census report that the 3 boys abovs above were stepchildren and the Lilley Jane and the other 3 children [Joseph Henry, Elizabeth Anne & Edwin Charles] were hers with Mr. Phillips?

Goodnight for now
Colin

[blue eyes]

Hi Colin,

A death registration for a Joseph Odgers in 1887 born abt 1858 district Redruth, so this could well be your Joseph. It would then make sense for the marriage of Joseph Phillips to Elizabeth Odgers.

There is one birth registration showing for a Peter Odgers in 1886 district Redruth.

Elizabeth and Joseph have a son Joseph between them, so why would they have another elder son called Joseph, and as I cant find a suitable birth for him under Odgers, he may be one of these assuming the registration district is Redruth.

Year 1883

Joseph Arthur Phillips
District Redruth

1885

Joseph Henry Phillips
District Redruth

It could well be that the enumerator made the mistakes when copying the household information into the enumerators book.

[blue eyes]

I missed this one a birth in 1883 for a Joseph Odgers Redruth, so he could be the right one.

[blue eyes]

Could have Joseph Phillips first marriage have been to a Mary Ann Temby, a death is registered in Redruth 1883 for a Mary Ann Phillips and can only find Joseph, Mary A and dau Mary A Phillips in 1881 in the civil parish of Camborne RD Redruth.

[Colin Rowledge]

Could have Joseph Phillips first marriage have been to a Mary Ann Temby, a death is registered in Redruth 1883 for a Mary Ann Phillips and can only find Joseph, Mary A and dau Mary A Phillips in 1881 in the civil parish of Camborne RD Redruth.

Hi Blue Eyes
The responses certainly tend to clean up some of the 'fluff' that is lying around. I'll review and see what I can piece together

Cheers
Colin

[Astoria]

Sorry if I am repeating information, but do you have this entry

1891 census TNA crown copyright

RG12; Piece: 1845; Folio 52; Page 13

Joseph Phillips 38 born Cambourne - tin miner
Elizabeth A Phillips 31
Maryan Phillips 13 born Cambourne
Edward J Phillips 9
Joseph Phillips 7
Isaiah Phillips 6
Peter Phillips 4
Lilley Jane Phillips 8/12

All the rest born Stithians

[Astoria]

Just noticed you have this already. :o