Divorced?

[Colin Rowledge]

I have a similar problem to yours, Brian, but this happened in the 20th century. My great-aunt married in the US in 1920. For the chap she married, I have his birth, marriage and death certificates along with the birth certificates of 2 children in England.

In 1906 he married and he and his spouse had 2 children. The 1911 census records all 4 and living together. In 1912 - confirmed by outgoing passenger list, he left for the US. In Jnuary 1914 he returned to England. There were now 3 children [one aged 1 year and confirmed by his wife as being fathered by another man]. In November 1914 he returned to the US. Both facts confirmed by passenger lists.

Questions:
1] Could he have obtained adivorce in 10 months?
2] Could he just ignore the relationship and was a bigamist when married in 1920?
3] What happened to his wife after 1914?

Colin

[Colin Rowledge]

My great-aunt married in the US in 1920. For the chap she married, I have his birth, marriage and death certificates along with the birth certificates of 2 children in England.

In 1906 he married and he and his spouse had 2 children. The 1911 census records all 4 and living together. In 1912 - confirmed by outgoing passenger list, he left for the US. In January 1914 he returned to England. There were now 3 children [one aged 1 year and confirmed by his wife as being fathered by another man]. In November 1914 he returned to the US. Both facts confirmed by passenger lists.

Questions:
1] Could he have obtained adivorce in 10 months?
2] Could he just ignore the relationship and was a bigamist when married in 1920?
3] What happened to his wife after 1914?

Colin

Have reviewed TNA but cannot find a record of a divorce. My gut feeling is that no divorce ever took place and he was a bigamist. She retained her married name and I've found possibly 3 more children, but do not want to spend the 21 pounds needed to obtain birth certificates.

Any suggestions, please and thank you

Colin

[Mutley]

Colin, I have split your two posts from Brian's thread and given your question a thread of it's own.

It is very confusing to include your brick wall in the middle of another query. |banghead|

Good Luck

[raineshoe]

I had similar with a Henry Cootes and Sarah Ann Simpson. I found Henry remarried to a Fanny in 1890 and no sign of the first wife and assumed she had died. I hunted high and low for her death, but I did find a divorce in the National Archives records by shear fluke of a chance for 1888. Never expected to find one owing to the nature of their status ie of labourer type stock.

It occurred to me though that some people may have divorced but the papers never submitted to any archive and therefore lost over time. I believe it is reliant on the solicitors who hold the documents submitting them to archives to keep. Therefore, divorce, but no proof left. However, as someone else said cost could be against them.

Having said that our Henry and Fanny claim they are widowers when they marry in 1890, but haven't found any deaths for Fanny's husband or Henry's wife as yet so I am thinking that's unlikely. Therefore, also goes to show you can't necessarily go with what any marriage certificates state either.

[raineshoe]

Oh dear, post has been split and I can't find what I was answering now :confused:

[Geoffers]

It occurred to me though that some people may have divorced but the papers never submitted to any archive and therefore lost over time. I believe it is reliant on the solicitors who hold the documents submitting them to archives to keep.

Divorce is/was granted by Courts of Law and as such finding a record is not dependent on the whim of a solicitor.

Some records have been destroyed over time - see this TNA research guide on divorce from 1858 (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=53) - for information on divorce before (including wife sale) then see this link (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=260)

[Mutley]

Oh dear, post has been split and I can't find what I was answering now :confused:

Sorry raineshoe, you were replying as the posts were moving around the board. ;)

This is Brian's thread (http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52518), if you want to copy your reply to him, it does apply to both posters.

[Colin Rowledge]

Colin, I have split your two posts from Brian's thread and given your question a thread of it's own.

It is very confusing to include your brick wall in the middle of another query. |banghead|

Good Luck

Thanks, Mutley.

Wasn't sure how to post this so I figured some bright 'mod' would soon sort me out

Cheers - from a beautiful sunny day in Southern Ontario
Colin

[Wirral]

Have reviewed TNA but cannot find a record of a divorce.
Have you looked at newspapers such as The London Gazette or The Times? Or local newpapers?

[Colin Rowledge]

Have you looked at newspapers such as The London Gazette or The Times? Or local newpapers?


Hi Wirral

No I had not even thought of those sources. Is the London Gazette or The Times on line and do you know how to search their archives if so?

Thanks
Colin

[Geoffers]

Is the London Gazette or The Times on line

The London Gazette (http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/) - it's free

Use a search engine to look for 'Archive Times online' - it's pay per view

[Mutley]

Thanks, Mutley.

Wasn't sure how to post this so I figured some bright 'mod' would soon sort me out

Cheers - from a beautiful sunny day in Southern Ontario
Colin

You are welcome Colin, mind you, you have learnt a thing or two, you found yourself here without a sign post. :D

- from a beautiful sunny day in Portugal. ;)

[raineshoe]

- from a beautiful sunny day in Portugal. ;)


Now I'm jealous. I love Portugal |sad1||rant|:(

[Colin Rowledge]

The London Gazette (http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/) - it's free

Use a search engine to look for 'Archive Times online' - it's pay per view


I tried the London Gazette, but couldn't find anything there. Given the date range [1914-1916] would a local [in Cornwall] firm have handled it for him 'in absentia' or would he be required to attend the court? Would any records exist in Corwall?

Thanks

[Geoffers]

It depends on grounds for divorce, but he is likely to have been required to atetnd court to give evidence. If there was a divorce the file should exist at TNA, the ercords for the period in question are searchable using the catalogue and appear in document class J77. To go to your initial question, 10 months would be rather quick for a divorce.

Many did not bother with divorce.

TNA's research guide on the subject (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=53)

[Colin Rowledge]

It depends on grounds for divorce, but he is likely to have been required to attend court to give evidence. If there was a divorce the file should exist at TNA, the ercords for the period in question are searchable using the catalogue and appear in document class J77. To go to your initial question, 10 months would be rather quick for a divorce.

Many did not bother with divorce.

TNA's research guide on the subject (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=53)

Having spent several frustrating hours reviewing the sites mentioned above, I have reached a dead end. Can't find any records.

I know that after he left England in 1914 he never returned. As noted above, 10 months would be awfully quick and as the grounds for divorce would have been likely adultery [as his wife gave birth in 1913], he would have needed to prove that he wasn't in England at the time.

Could he just have "abandoned' her and at some point she was granted a divorce?

His liason in 1920 has not yet resulted in a US marriage certificate being located and I can't find either party on the 1920 U.S.census, but by the 1930 census they state they were married and had 3 sons, plus her 2 children from a prior marriage.

Is it likely they never married? Bear in mind that in the 1915-1920 era, Butte, Montana was mostly comprised of mining camps and much would likely have never been formalized.

Suggestions are always welcome but my available tolerance for this chap is fast being eroded. His grandson did extensive research on this but also drew 'blanks' and he was in the U.S. when he did his research [Oregon].

Thanks
Colin

[Geoffers]

Could he just have "abandoned' her and at some point she was granted a divorce?

He could have done a runner and she just didn't bother with the formality of a divorce - just accepting the reality of the situation.