Training/Apprenticeships

[ashbee]

Can I check with someone that anyone wanting to become a tailor in the early 1800s would need to undergo an apprenticeship and that the parents/guardian would have to pay for the training unless the child was in the care of the parish?

[Peter Goodey]

It depends what you mean by early 1800s but the answer is probably no. 'Where' as well as 'when' is also relevant. Have a read of this. (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=295)

The old system was breaking up in the early 19th century. Indentures arranged by the parish (until 1834) and then by poor law unions are the ones you stand a realistic chance of finding.

Key dates are 1811 (end of duty payable on apprenticeships and hence central official recording) and 1814 (Apprentices Act).

[belinda]

hi new to site. my great x3 grandfather (tailor) had an apprentice in 1861 census. do not know about payment but he lived with the family. hope that helps.
is there any information on mst tailors around 1881

[Walkeringham]

Thankyou, Peter. I read about the1814 Apprentices act and I think it might solve one of my puzzles!
John Lovett (Leicestershire) married in 1833. I have a copy of the marriage certificate but nothing else; I have never found his birth or death.The 1841 census gives his age as 25 - so perhaps born 1816? If he was a tailor-as he said- I doubted he could have married in 1833. But if I have read the 1814 Act correctly, he would not have had to serve 7years? So he could have been a tailor AND married at 17?
After 1841, he disappeared altogether!!!

[helachau]

Allowing for the "rounding down" required on the '41 Census, John could be between 29 and 25 - born 1812 - 1816. With him is an Alexander Lovett, age 6, b. 1835? (ref HO107 592 8/11 15)

On the '51 Census (ref HO107 2090 627 29) there is an Alexander Lovell (as transcribed), age 15 (1836), born Barrow, patient at Leicester Infirmary. Have looked at the original image and the last 2 characters do not appear to be crossed but did wonder if this could be Lovett. Checked the '41 Census for an Alexander Lovell but no one of that name in Leicestershire.

[helachau]

Did he marry Sarah Dexter at Barrow on Soar 17July 1833?

1851 Census (ref HO107 2087 134 26)
There is a Sarah Lovett, age 34, married, seamstress + 6 children (3 of whom born after 1841) + father John Dexter. The youngest child is only 9 mths.

[helachau]

Derby Mercury, Wed 3 Sept 1851
Sarah Lovett (wife of one John Lovett who has deserted her), and her six children, were sworn to their settlement, and orders were granted for their removal to Thurcaston, in this county, they now living at Barrow-upon-Soar.

Possibly "your John"?

[Walkeringham]

Thankyou, helachau - I very much appreciate a new view on this. I've got to the stage where I can't see the wood for the trees!
Yes, that's my John Lovett - 20yrs a brickwall!
I've always fancied John Lovett (1841) as his father, because he was a tailor and had a son Israel (another tailor at 15!) which was a recurring family name. Other than that, there is John, son of John,F.W.K. and Alice (Phipps ), 1815, NonConf. OR John, son of John,F.W.K. and Ann (H/Ainsworth )
The removal order is another puzzle. Why Thurcaston? Sarah Dexter was born in Barrow on Soar and I haven't found a John Lovett in Thurcaston. Some years ago a professional researched found no evidence that the children went to school in Thurcaston.
Daughter Sarah,1851, m. 1871- no father's name was given. Daughter Elizabeth was born in Barrow in 1853.
Alexander went to London- was John there?

[Walkeringham]

I have John Lovett married Alice Phipps 1810 in THURCASTON - A tenuous link to the Removal Order?!
At the time of their John's bapt. they were living in Barrow.

[helachau]

John Lovett (Leicestershire) married in 1833. I have a copy of the marriage certificate but nothing else; I have never found his birth or death.The 1841 census gives his age as 25 - so perhaps born 1816?

Family search has the christening (Community Indexed not Contributed) of a John Lovett, 19 May 1816, Barrow upon Soar, parents John and Anne. Have you been able to discount this possibility?

[Walkeringham]

No.
I have a choice between John 1815, son of John and Alice Phipps or John 1816, son of John and Ann H/Ainsworth.
John, tailor, possibly the father, was a widower in 1832 - he married his second wife,Elizabeth Lockwood.But I can't find a death for either Ann or Alice. So no help there!
Thankyou for your interest.

[Walkeringham]

Just found I.G.I. John 1816, son of John and Ann died 1821.