Trethowan

[warncoort]

Folks,
I have Ann Trethowan who married Frederick Reeves at Shoreditch,Middlesex in 1788 and the marriage record shows they were both of the parish,however i cannot find any mention of them prior to this.
I have found an Ann in Cornwall b1773,seems to young to marry at 15.
Any ideas?
Eric

[birdlip]

Hi Eric,

a few thoughts..

'of this parish' simply means they were living in the parish prior to the marriage, it doesn't mean they were born there.

It wasn't unheard of for people to marry at fifteen, but they needed parental consent, which would normally be recorded on the marriage entry, in the parish records

Was the date 1773 the birth date or the baptism date? Baptisms were often carried out when children were older, not always as babies.

[birdlip]

The surname is obviously Cornish, BUT a quick look at IGI shows a John TRETHEWEN baptised in London as early as 1645 at St Dunstan, Stepney.

A hundred years later, Francis TRETHOWEN[ TRATHOWEN, TRATHAVEN or TROTHOWEN] and Margaret baptised four children..James, John, Francis and Margaret between 1744-1757 at St Lukes, Old St, Finsbury.

So there were TRETHOWEN's around in London, they were just thin on the ground!

[warncoort]

Thanks for the help,was aware "of this parish" is flexible.Will do more checking in London for both parties.Is there a map of London parishes available?
I searched IGI for Frederick b 1763 and found him to be son of Henry and Elizabeth Bosson but recorded in Hannon? Cornwall and Harrow on the Hill,London.Is there an explanation for duplicate records?
Eric

[birdlip]

Hi Eric,

it looks like the Frederick Reeves entries you've found on IGI are member submitted, so unlikely to be accurate unfortunately.

Genuki has a good page on London Parishes, with links to maps, old and new.

http://homepages.gold.ac.uk/genuki/LND/parishes.html

[warncoort]

Birdlip,
Why do you doubt the IGI entry?
Eric

[birdlip]

Birdlip,
Why do you doubt the IGI entry?
Eric

Extracted entries are more likely to be correct that's all, because they're taken directly from the parish records.

[birdlip]

Is there an explanation for duplicate records?


A recent thread called 'IGI Query' answered this one really well. It was in General Family History Queries. If I was better at this, I'd be able to give you a direct link.. sorry!

[JAP1]

Hello Eric,

You are fortunate to have managed to trace your ancestors to their marriage way back in 1788 - Frederic REEVES m Ann TRETHOWEN, St Leonards Shoreditch in the IGI (extracted) and in the London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921.

That may well be as far as you can get.

As birdlip said, entries in the IGI which are submitted by LDS members need to be treated with caution - sometimes they are nothing more than pure guesswork.

However, leaving that aside, I wonder
a) why you were searching for a Frederic REEVES born ca 1763, and
b) why you would think that the submitted entry which you found is your Frederick?

Frederick REEVES is not an uncommon name!
It may well be that the Frederick REEVES you found, despite the similarity of name and birthdate, is not your Frederick at all.
Be careful! Don't just latch on to someone! Proof is needed.

If you look at the various submitted entries, you will see that some of them give his death date as 1842. There is a death in the Dec qtr 1842 for a Frederick REEVES in Richmond, Surrey. Richmond includes Mortlake.

If you look at the 1841 census, you will find the following household in Mortlake:
Fredk REEVES, 75, Ind., not born in the county
Fredk Do, 35, Cl., not born in the county
Sophia REEVES, 30, not born in the county
Harriet Do, 4, born in the county
Catherine Do, 3, born in the county
Fredk Do, 2, born in the county
Julia Do, 6 months, born in the county

Ages of persons over 15 were supposed to be rounded down to the nearest 5. So Frederick, 75, in the household listed above could be aged anywhere between 75 and 79 i.e. born anywhere between 1762 and 1765.

So, it is looking likely that the submitted Frederick is not yours!

Incidentally, from later censuses it is interesting to see that the 35yo Frederick from the 1841 was Frederick J H REEVES, a clergyman, born ca 1804 in India.

And his death, Frederick John H REEVES, 87, Mar qtr 1891, Richmond S.

If you Google for
"Frederick J H REEVES"
(with the quotes) there are a few hits.

Regards,

JAP

[warncoort]

Birdlip/Jap,
1. Frederick who married in 1788,i have nothing on him beyond his marriage and have extract from Parish record.More work there.
2. His son,Frederick Trethowan Reeves appears on census etc and have his death certificate on order.
3.If you see a Reeves with second given name of Trethowan after 1788,I am interested,though i don't think i have missed any.
4.Mum's maiden name is Reeves.
5.Thanks for your help and direction.
Eric

[JAP1]

Hello again Eric,

I hope that it was clear why I was convinced that the submitted entry in the IGI for a Frederick REEVES born 1763 is not yours - and that this saves you from following a false trail.

You didn't mention which REEVES people with second name of Trethowan you already have ...

Extracted IGI entries include the following:
* Frederick Trethouen (sic) REEVES, born 26 Apr, bap 20 May 1798, parents Frederick & Ann, All Hallows the Less London
The following (no middle name) might be to the same parents:
*Jane REEVES, born 9 Jan, bap 11 Feb 1792, parents Fredrick & Ann, Holy Trinity the Less London

* Frederick Trathoun (sic) REEVES, born 20 Nov, bap 26 Dec 1824, parents Frederick & Ann, St Leonards Shoreditch London
* Jane Trathoevan (sic) REEVES, born 18 Apr, bap 11 May 1828, parents Frederick & Ann, St Leonards Shoreditch London
* William Frethowan (sic) REEVES, born 28 Aug 1829, bap 5 Sep 1830, parents Frederick Frethowan (sic) & Ann, St Leonards Shoreditch London
* Charles Trethowan REEVES, born 13 Mar, bap 26 Apr 1835, parents Frederick Trethowen & Ann, St Leonards Shoreditch London
* Thomas Trethowen REEVES, born 26 Dec 1826 (sic), bap 16 Apr 1837, parents Frederick Trethowen & Ann, St Leonards Shoreditch London

Some of these are in the London Baptisms on Ancestry where Frederick's address and occupation are also shown. They include:
- Frederick (Webbs Square, Coal Merchant)
- William (Holywell Lane, Porter)
- Charles (Holywell Lane, Coal Dealer)
- Thomas (Holywell Lane, Coal Dealer)

JAP

[JAP1]

And on FreeBMD:
* Ann Trethowen REEVES, birth, Jun qtr 1838, Greenwich
And her death (middle name shown as Tre-awan), Sep qtr 1838, Greenwich

[warncoort]

Jap1,
Your queries about my search,
a,i was never looking at Frederick Reeves b1763,i had seen Ann Trethowan b1773.
b, Frederick Reeves i agree is not a common name,however Frederick Trethowan Reeves is distinctive,and the only ones you will find are post 1798.
And the IGI entry is perfectly accurate and matches the entry i have beside me.
c,Reeves you show born India or living in Mortlake are not related.
d,i have not entered any information on my tree which is not confirmed.
F T Reeves died in 1854.
Will keep searching,
Eric

[JAP1]

Hi Eric,

1. Re the 1763 chap (emphasis added to the quote by me)

... a,i was never looking at Frederick Reeves b1763 ...
:confused:
But it was you who mentioned Frederick REEVES b 1763 (see your post #4 etc). That is the only reason why I pointed out - with detailed reasoning - that he seemed to be a different chap from the Frederick REEVES who married Ann TRETHOWAN in 1788 and fathered Frederick Trethowan REEVES.

2. Incidentally (this just for your information) I have submitted a correction to FreeBMD for the middle name of Ann Trethowan (as I read it) REEVES died 1838. If it is not accepted, I will submit a postem.

Kind regards,

JAP