Coates Cambridgeshire Policeman death

[dmcr]

Hi all,

I have been trying to find information on my great grandfather's involvement in the Cambridgeshire police for some time now so I am hoping someone with more experience may be able to help.

My great grandfather was John Bishop born C1867 Littleport Cambridgeshire. He is listed on the 1901 Census as a policeman. I have a photo of him in police uniform. It has part of some numbers on his collar _23 on right & 23_ on left.
I believe he may have served with the Coates police.

Tragically he died in April 1904 and I am told he was buried 24th April 1904 at Coates Churchyard. Death registered at Peterborough. Family has told me they thought he died of pneumonia. Family thinks he did or was trying to apprehend salmon poachers at the time he became ill.

So far I have not been able to locate a funeral or obituary notice in a newspaper or any police record for him. :( It must be out there somewhere.

I have tried policememorial.org.uk, cambs.pnn.police.uk with a comment of too busy from the former and no reply from the latter.

Hoping someone can help

DMCR from Australia

[dmcr]

Hi again,

I need to correct my post slightly as I believe my great grandfather may have been part of the Isle of Ely constabulary.

I had in the past contacted a site who had listed him as deceased 1904 with the wording "Death Notice" written beside his name but again no luck with a response.

Hope this may help everyone.

DMCR Australia

[Jan1954]

Hi there,

The Isle of Ely had its own Constabulary from 1841. It included four districts - Ely, Wisbech, Whittlesey and Chatteris, each of which were self-contained and independent from one another. As Coates is almost on the doorstep of Whittlesey, that might be the force on which to concentrate.

[Geoffers]

The Isle of Ely had its own Constabulary from 1841. It included four districts - Ely, Wisbech, Whittlesey and Chatteris, each of which were self-contained and independent from one another. As Coates is almost on the doorstep of Whittlesey, that might be the force on which to concentrate.

..........especially as in 1901 he was living in Stretham (RG13/1543 f8 p67), which is north of the Ouse.

I suspect that the records of the Isle of Ely Constabulary were combined with the other forces that amalgamated into the Mid-Anglia Force in 1965 and then went to Cambridgeshrie in 1974.......However, how much has survived the eyars is another question. Some forces, following reorganisation in the 60s and 70s were quite ruthless in discarding old records.

I could not find anything obvious on the Cambridgeshire Archives web-site catalogue. Very little turns up searching Access to Archives. So what does survive may still be with the present day force.

[dmcr]

Hi again all,

I have again made contact with the only web site I know had listed my great grandfather. This time I have had a reply but unfortunately Alan was unable to help further. He indeed had my grandfather listed as "PC Bishop of Ely force, death notice, 1904" but unfortunately could not help with a copy and could not remember where he had gained the information.

Whilst comparing my great grandfather's picture to others Alan had on his side of Ely force members through time I compared the uniform and helmet badge. Although the badge is not clear on my photo it looks quite like the Ely badge.

The only puzzling thing is my grandfather appears to have stripes on the arm of his uniform similar to that displayed on a photo of a sergeant. Would these stripes indicate rank and if so then why would he be listed as PC Bishop?

Thanks "Jan1954" & "Geoffers" for your input. Any idea where I go from here? As I am not in England I am at a loss especially as I have tried contacting the Cambridgeshire Constabulary a couple of times with no reply. It appears they are too busy to answer my query.

I cannot access local newspapers from here in my town in Australia so also have no chance of finding a funeral notice or obituary for John Bishop although I know his burial was at Coates 24 April 1904.

Hoping someone can still help.

DMCR

[Geoffers]

The only puzzling thing is my grandfather appears to have stripes on the arm of his uniform similar to that displayed on a photo of a sergeant. Would these stripes indicate rank and if so then why would he be listed as PC Bishop?

He may have been an Acting Sergeant - a temporary promotion to fill a vacancy - but then not actually promoted to the substantive rank.

If the stripes are by the wrist of the left arm, it may be a duty band to show he was at work.

Or are the stripes quite short and on the forearm?


As I am not in England I am at a loss especially as I have tried contacting the Cambridgeshire Constabulary a couple of times with no reply. It appears they are too busy to answer my query.

I think you're best bet at the moment is to persist with the police force unless someone knows better what happened to historic records of the force. The surviving records will not be online. As a young cadet in the early 70s I remember carting off sackloads of old records to the incinerator - that was in another force, but it would not surprise me if few Cambridgeshire records survive.


I cannot access local newspapers from here in my town in Australia so also have no chance of finding a funeral notice or obituary for John Bishop although I know his burial was at Coates 24 April 1904.

Some libraries/record offices have access to Gale Group newspapers, which include lots of local newspapers. Other than that the British Library Newspaper Collection (Colindale Library) can provide newspapers on film, but there is a substantial cost.

[ddqpm]

Try the Cambridgeshire Family History Society website at cfhs.org.uk This has a wide range of indices available.Also Google ' Wisbech Newspapers ',which couldprove of assistance.

[ddqpm]

You may have referred to this photograph already but if you Google Isle of Ely Police and then go to theera.free-online.co.uk/pages/isle-of-ely.htm you will find photographs of early I of E Constabulary men,including one depicting two men,one of whom wears the collar numeral 23,he is also wearing the ' duty armband' on his left lower arm.

[SueNSW]

Whilst it may not clarify his police service and I can appreciate this is your primary aim at the moment - you should at least be able to confirm his cause of death by ordering a death certificate. British ones don't give anywhere near as much information as Australian ones though - but with the high flying Aussie dollar rate at the moment - they are considerably cheaper

Presume you know how to go about this- if not just yell out

Cheers
Sue

[steve-fuff]

Hi all,

My great grandfather was John Bishop born C1867 Littleport Cambridgeshire.

DMCR from Australia

From the Cambridge records online:
http://www2.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/db/ridbirths.nsf/AllDocs/97FD3FC86C4264AB80256F070045C2CF?opendocument

Surname: BISHOP
Forename: John
Middle Initial:
Year of Birth: 1866
Reference: 332/B-LIT14/247
District: ELY (the Registration District in which the birth took place)

Hope that helps for the beginning of his life.

[dmcr]

Hi all,

I am still struggling with my great grandfather's police involvement. As I live in Australia I also know little about Cambridgeshire and each time a name of a town or area arises in my research I google it. It is a geography lesson in itself.

In response to ddqpm. I have came across the same photo of the Ely policeman online with No 23 on his collar at http://www.theera.free-online.co.uk/pages/isle-of-ely.htm. This photo seems to be taken some time earlier than the one I have as the men have top hats and not helmets. The man with No 23 on his collar is fresh shaved and with wavy hair and the arm band is quite different to what I am talking about.

The photo raises two questions. One, is a policeman's number his own even after death or leaving the force or could there be more than one man using the number 23 over a period of years? I wonder if this is in fact an earlier photo of my great grandfather when he first entered the force.

Two, when did the dress change? The photo of my great grandfather in uniform shows him with a police helmet on his head and he has quite a full mustache so it is quite hard to compare facial features.

The marking on his arm is not a band like the photo you refer to but is two distinct V-shaped stripes paired together on the lower part of his right arm with the point of the V pointing upwards. They are a single light colour. Otherwise than the fact his gloves are a dark colour rather than light as most of these photos depict the uniform is unchanged. The helmet badge is hard to pick out as it is dark on a dark helmet but is could be the Isle of Ely badge.

It may be as pointed out by Geoffers that he was a relieving sergeant for a period of time.

Thanks SueNSW for the suggestion to get John Bishop's death certificate. I had been waiting for our Aussie dollar to regain it's strength so it might be a good move. Any suggestions on where I would be best to obtain a certificate from. I believe the most likely death for him is Bishop, John, 37 yrs, Peterborough, 3b, 129, June 1/4, 1904. A John Powell Bishop died in the same year who I believe could be his father. It must have been a sad year.

Thanks steve-fuff for John Bishop's birth registration entry would that be a parish reference for this birth found on free BDM: Bishop,John, Ely,3b,547, Sept 1/4, 1866?

Thank you all for your suggestions regarding the newspapers. I will try the Cambridgeshire Family History Society again. They were the source for John's burial information but at that time did not find a newspaper entry. I will also keep trying online.

As to the Cambridgeshire Constabulary. I will send them another email. I have tried 3-4 times over a period of about the same number of years with no response so I don't know how I will go. But, it they are the answer I will keep on it. I do hope that the records have not been destroyed.

Thanks once again.

DMCR Australia

[SueNSW]

You can order the death certificate online via this page

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

You need to register first - then complete the details of the year, area, volume and page etc that you have - pay your money (CC) - and wait for it to arrive

The cost of 7 Pounds include airmail postage - and as the good old Aussie dollar surges onwards and upwards (for the moment anyway) this is certainly a good time to get it

Just thought - if the GRO site is considered to be commercial (I would have thought it was a service) and this gets edited/deleted - PM me for the information

Good Luck with your other lines of enquiry

Cheers
Sue

[Geoffers]

Two, when did the dress change? The photo of my great grandfather in uniform shows him with a police helmet on his head and he has quite a full mustache so it is quite hard to compare facial features.

Uniform changed over time, both headwear and style of tunic/coat.


The marking on his arm is not a band like the photo you refer to but is two distinct V-shaped stripes paired together on the lower part of his right arm with the point of the V pointing upwards.

These are likely to mark good conduct/length of service.

If you have had no reply to e-mail, you might try a letter and enclose IRCs with a self adressed envelope, or possibly telephoning either the police or the records office.

[steve-fuff]

Hi all,

Thanks steve-fuff for John Bishop's birth registration entry would that be a parish reference for this birth found on free BDM: Bishop,John, Ely,3b,547, Sept 1/4, 1866?

DMCR Australia

Sorry, perhaps I was being overly brief.
The URL I quoted will take you to the CAMDEX records - which are the local Cambridgeshire copy of the GRO records. The GRO records indexes are the source material for FreeBMD.
However, the Cambridgeshire records have the advantage of including a parish reference with the entry reference. "B-LIT" in this case.
With a little detective work you can identify birth parishes.

I thought the URL would be useful for many people as the system holds all Cambridgeshire GRO records - Births, Deaths, and Marriages so there is a trail from 1837 through to 2003.

Unfortunately Littleport happens to be one of the parishes I don't have transcripts for so I can't help much further there.

[ddqpm]

You could also try the Littleport Society,a family history and heritage group, on

littleportsociety.org.uk

who claim to have data files on 59 Bishop families in the area.

[dmcr]

Thank you all for your help once again.

It looks like I have some airmail letter writing to do. I will certainly try emailing again but as suggested it might just work to write to both the Cambridgeshire Constabulary and the Cambridgeshire Archives.

I will keep my fingers crossed.

Thanks to Geoffers for his expertise with the uniform. I will try sending a copy of the photo with my letter for clarification. Thanks also for confirming my suspicions that collar numbers were reallocated. John Bishop was listed on the 1891 census as a

Thanks SueNSW & steve-fuff for your informative advise on certificates. I am new at these English certificates.

Thanks ddqpm for the tip re the Littleport Society. I went to their site and noticed quite a few of my family surnames on there so it may be worth a try contacting them. I note the 59 Bishop names but was astounded by the 1337 Gotobed names. I only have one way back in my tree so far and I had never heard of the name before.

Keep your fingers crossed I get a result from somewhere.

I will let you know how I go.

DMCR Australia

[SueNSW]

but was astounded by the 1337 Gotobed names. I only have one way back in my tree so far and I had never heard of the name before.

DMCR Australia

I'll have to have a look there too - I have the gloriously named Ellen Measures Gotobed who "escaped" to darkest Essex and married a Gregory (my mother's family) in Rainham in 1871

Cheers
Sue

[Chas]

I'll have to have a look there too - I have the gloriously named Ellen Measures Gotobed who "escaped" to darkest Essex and married a Gregory (my mother's family) in Rainham in 1871

Cheers
Sue
I see she married a Gregory and died aged 73, do you know who her parents were?

[SueNSW]

Haven't pinned them down for sure Chas - she is only a small twig and I can't justify the purchase of a cert for her (till my lotto numbers come up - then I'll buy 'em all)

There are a couple of trees on Ancestry that give Anngier/Aungier Gotobed and Hannah Chapman - but I haven't been able to tie it in with census entries

Cheers
Sue

[Jax123]

Did you have any success in finding anything more out about your great grandfather. I have just come across your post and John was also my great great grandfather. His son Thomas Bishop was my great grandfather.

Jax



Hi all,

I have been trying to find information on my great grandfather's involvement in the Cambridgeshire police for some time now so I am hoping someone with more experience may be able to help.

My great grandfather was John Bishop born C1867 Littleport Cambridgeshire. He is listed on the 1901 Census as a policeman. I have a photo of him in police uniform. It has part of some numbers on his collar _23 on right & 23_ on left.
I believe he may have served with the Coates police.

Tragically he died in April 1904 and I am told he was buried 24th April 1904 at Coates Churchyard. Death registered at Peterborough. Family has told me they thought he died of pneumonia. Family thinks he did or was trying to apprehend salmon poachers at the time he became ill.

So far I have not been able to locate a funeral or obituary notice in a newspaper or any police record for him. :( It must be out there somewhere.

I have tried policememorial.org.uk, cambs.pnn.police.uk with a comment of too busy from the former and no reply from the latter.

Hoping someone can help

DMCR from Australia

[dmcr]

Hi Jax123, Sorry for being so long in getting back to you.

Are you sure that your great great grandfather was my John Bishop. My John did have a son Thomas but sadly Thomas Bishop died during WW1 at the age of 18 in France. Is you great great grandfather maybe my John's father John Powell Bishop. John Powell Bishop did have a son Thomas Bishop born 1874 in Ely Cambridgeshire. Is this maybe him?

I would love to hear more.

DMCR from Australia

[Clarinetguy]

I have been following this thread for some time and I tried to contact the OP with no success. Just a small point; the records I have (on a CD) give the burial date as 25th April 1904. There is a report in the Peterborough Advertiser of 30th April 1904 of Constable's funeral - PC Bishop 37 which I will obtain when I am next in Peterborough.

[Clarinetguy]

The OP and I are now in touch.