Did my grandad ever divorce?

[lynnegreen05]

Hi all BGers
Does anyone know how to find Divorce records? My grandfather married 2 ladies named Ada- |blush| one in 1930 and my own grandmother in 1937. Both in Halifax and with similar surnames Jackson and Johnson |banghead|
Is is possible he could move across a valley and marry again without getting a divorce?
Any help would be greatfully received - am I missing the obvious here?
Thanks
Lynne

[Peter Goodey]

What do the two marriage certificates say?

[lynnegreen05]

What do the two marriage certificates say?

Hi Peter,|wave|
Thanks for the prompt reply, the first marraige cert says my Grandad was a "Bachelor" - I have a copy of this, my cousin has the Second one (I have just ordered a copy of it as I found the record on A*)- she "says" it also states Bachelor - but cannot find it! Hence me ordering a copy - she could well have got it wrong I suppose - it should say divorced for him if they did - shouldn't it?

I have tried searching J77 records of the National Archives -but am I right in thinking that these are not complete records?

Did they put divorces in the local newspapers in the 1930's does anyone know?
I may just have to wait for a copy of the marraige cert ?
Cheers
Lynne

[Peter Goodey]

I think you need to have both certificates in front of you to confirm that they do indeed relate to the same man and different women.

By the way, I can see births in Halifax in that sort of period where the mother's maiden name is Jackson, Johnson and Johnston. The earliest "Johnson" birth is 1934. You may need some of those birth certificates.

[Jane Gee]

If you watched the recent WDYTYA Kim Cattrells grandfather appears to have done just that.
Jane

[lynnegreen05]

If you watched the recent WDYTYA Kim Cattrells grandfather appears to have done just that.
Jane
Thanks for this,we have found one son to the first 'jackson' marraige,who sadly died before we knew of him,he would have been half brother to my dad-- who said there was always a "rumour" of something - but in those days "children were seen and not heard" ! It seems that they took this secret to the grave -along with many others ,no doubt, will keep searching, thanks everyone!

[Jonesy]

Hi all BGers
Does anyone know how to find Divorce records?

Have you already searched the National Archives' website?

[lynnegreen05]

Have you already searched the National Archives' website?

I have not had much success with NA -maybe I am doing something wrong? If anyone has any advice it would be appreciated.
|bowdown|
Thanks
Lynne

[Peter Goodey]

You said that you have already searched series J 77 in the National Archives catalogue without success.

Have you read the relevant research guide?
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=53

Have you now received the second marriage certificate and can you confirm that they both definitely relate to the same man and different women?

[Nicolina]

do you have proof that the first Ada didn't die?

[lynnegreen05]

Eureka
Finally got a copy of the original marraige cert and it clearly shows him as the divorced husband of the first Ada - thrown up a few more interesting challenges - we have now worked out that he clearly married 5 months before my fathers birth and 3 YEARS after my aunties birth !
So I assume divorces took about 5 years in the early 30s. Now I need to track down if possible the actual divorce records circa 1931 to 1937 - nothing on the NA that I have found - any help or ideas appreciated!
Thankfully we now know he was NOT a bigamist. Because he surely must have had to present the divorce cert to marry the second time?

Thanks to all for all offers of help -we have also worked out the first wife remarried too- been a busy time!
Thanks
Lynne:D

[Peter Goodey]

I've already pointed out the research guide. If you've followed the advice in there about searching the catalogue and drawn a blank, all that's left is to apply to the Principal Registry of the Family Division as described in section 2.

All this will do is confirm that there really was a divorce. Whether or not you think it's worthwhile is up to you.

[Geoffers]

Finally got a copy of the original marraige cert and it clearly shows him as the divorced husband of the first Ada.....Now I need to track down if possible the actual divorce records circa 1931 to 1937

Read the TNA research guide on divorces and in particular when records end and the percentage of records that survive.

Keep searches simple - in the word or phrase field just enter a surname; if the name can be spelt in different ways, either use wildcards or repeat the searhch for the different variants.

If you must limit the year range (e.g. because the surname is one that occurs lots), allow some latitude in your search, say 1930-1940.


Thankfully we now know he was NOT a bigamist.

No you don't, the marriage certificate merely records him as a divorcee; it does not record whether any proof of his marital condition was provided. However, he may have divorced and the record is no longer held in J77 at TNA.

[lynnegreen05]

Read the TNA research guide on divorces and in particular when records end and the percentage of records that survive.

Keep searches simple - in the word or phrase field just enter a surname; if the name can be spelt in different ways, either use wildcards or repeat the searhch for the different variants.

If you must limit the year range (e.g. because the surname is one that occurs lots), allow some latitude in your search, say 1930-1940.



No you don't, the marriage certificate merely records him as a divorcee; it does not record whether any proof of his marital condition was provided. However, he may have divorced and the record is no longer held in J77 at TNA.

Geoffers you are right... how trusting I am? I was shocked enough (as all the family )to think he had this secret life (wife and another son) -despite the rumours over the years,- but, "oh" the secrets they kept!.

The certificate say the marraige was at the registry office (interesting enough as my grandmother was a devout church go-er, and interestingly the registrar has crossed out the word "by" and inserted "by certificate before me"/ The status as to my grandfathers condition at marraige states "the divorced husband of xxx formerly xxx spinster".
So yes,as there are so few records surviving according to TNA we may never really know!

I would still like to "think" the best of him as was a super grandad -so I suppose that is all that matters - albeit one with "secrets" -but who hasn't eh?

Will think about this a bit more before deciding what to do -thanks all=mabe a large chardonnay will help?
|5cups|
Cheers
Lynne:confused:

[Geoffers]

The status as to my grandfathers condition at marriage states "the divorced husband of xxx formerly xxx spinster".

It might take some nerve to include all that detail and not be divorced!

See Peter's replies above as an to alternative way around things.

Also, although the records in J77 at TNA are now incomplete, I believe that the index in J78 is complete (The Catalogue shows these documents (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/searchresults.asp?SearchInit=0&txtsearchterm=divorce&txtfirstdate=1930&txtlastdate=1938&txtrestriction=j78&hdnsorttype=Reference&image1.x=34&image1.y=11)between 1930 and 1938) , so it might be another way of confirming the divorce. Sadly the index cannot be searched online.

[lynnegreen05]

Cheers Geoffers.
Tried Peters ideas, still drawing a blank even on wildcards. The j78 record looks like my only hope.
The chardonnay may have helped - as thinking about it -surely grandma would not have waited till 2nd Jan 1937 (already two months pregnant with my father and they already had his elder sister) before marrying -unless they were waiting for a divorce to be finalised!!!

So it must have been final between Summer and Dec 1936 and they had to have banns read etc and this was probably the first date they could after the Xmas break (also it would be easier to hide during the festivities) as we don't even recognise the witness names it is likely they were already living as man and wife and had a very "quickie" ceremony?
Dad said they were always very coy about their anniversary in particular when the family tried to organise a Ruby Anniversary party - now we know why! How times change?
Back to the Chardonnay for me.... if only they knew we really did not mind - but then it would not make my search interesting would it?

Thanks again all.
Lynne;)

[Peter Goodey]

"by certificate before me"

In case you're concerned, this is the normal wording for a standard register office marriage certificate. By 'standard', I mean the equivalent of "by banns" in a CofE church.

[Peter Goodey]

The j78 record looks like my only hope.

One of two hopes, the other being an application to the Principal Registry in First Avenue House.

[lynnegreen05]

One of two hopes, the other being an application to the Principal Registry in First Avenue House.

Did not know about this - will definitely search further now.
What a great source of knowledge - thank you ever so much
Regards
Lynne|bowdown|