Joseph Godchaux/Godchaus and Leontine Weill [Archive] - British Genealogy & Family History Forums

harbourlady99

15-08-2009, 1:27 PM

Is there anyway of looking up records on the net or do you have to use someone in the country of origin to help? I am trying to get a birth certificate for my GGF and GGM who both originated in France, moved to the USA then on to the UK. I know a rough year of birth and I believe their youngest daugher was married in Paris in 1897. But as to where in France they were both born I do not know. How can I move forward on this, any suggestions? Joseph Godchaux/Godchaus c1835 and Leontine Weill c1846.

pottoka

16-08-2009, 12:38 PM

There is no centralised system of BMDs in France as there is in England & Wales, so there is no way of looking up a French person's birth (or a British person born in France, etc) on the Internet. There are a few who are on the IGI, but it's very hit and miss.

This explains the French system very well: http://genealogy.about.com/od/france/a/french_ancestry.htm

The biggest problem is that you need to know where exactly a person was born to be able to apply to the Town Hall of that town, city or village to get a copy of their birth certificate. Since I've been part of Brit-Gen, I've noticed that people sometimes gave a town in France for their birthplace, but have not been found there; my theory is that it was easier to give the name of the closest large town, which probably had a name they knew how to spell (more or less) than a little village with a complicated name.

France is divided up into départements, and some départements have got their archives wholly or partially online. But you would still need to know which town to start looking for.

pottoka

16-08-2009, 1:05 PM

What makes you think that one of their daughters was married in Paris? http://www.emoticonland.net/smileys/Drapeaux/drap006.gif (http://www.emoticonland.net)

This could possibly be a lead as marriage certificates in France have information about the couple's parents which could help. There would also be the date and place of birth of the bride (and the groom) which could lead to more information about the origins of her parents.

If you can give me the daughter's name, age, place of birth, date of birth and what you do know about her parents, including if they were still alive at the time of the marriage, I can put a request on a French web-site for you for a volunteer to look for the marriage at the Archives départementales de Paris. Basically, as much information as you have - the more the better.

I can't promise results, and certainly nothing soon as I'm going away until early September and will be without Internet access during that time |help|!

harbourlady99

10-09-2009, 3:13 PM

pottoka

10-09-2009, 6:59 PM

The daughters name is Jeanne Godchaux which has also been spelt Godchaus. She was born in San Francisco at about the time all the records were destroyed. 1877 Her parents are Joseph Godchaus and her mother Leontine Weill (can also be found as Veil or Weil) I believe that at least one of the families is Jewish and maybe originated in Germany many generations before. Jeanne married in Paris to John Shrager (Schrager) 1897 Jan 24. One possible place was Indre et Loire as there was an address on the sheet but it could have been a couple of places in France, Marseilles was another. Sorry not to have got back sooner. Any help whenever it fits in with you is fine. Thanks

If I read you rightly, Jeanne Godchaux/Godchaus married John Shrager/Schrager in Paris on January 24th 1897. Do you by any chance know in which arrondissement (district) of Paris the marriage took place - it would make it easier to look for the record.

There is a famous French politician called Simone Weil who was responsible for legalising abortion in France, among other things. She was deported to Auschwitz as a child, being a Jew, and was one of the few survivors. Maybe the Weil/Veil family is your Jewish family.

I'll get onto the search for Jeanne's marriage certificate this weekend.

pottoka

10-09-2009, 8:54 PM

The daughters name is Jeanne Godchaux which has also been spelt Godchaus. She was born in San Francisco at about the time all the records were destroyed. 1877

What happened? An earthquake, fires after a quake like in 1906 or something totally different?

Coincidentally, the records in Paris were destroyed by a fire in 1871; their website says "all the Parish Registers of baptisms, marriages and burials, recorded before 1792, and all the Registry Office records drawn up before 1859 in the former 12 Parisian arrondissements and in the suburb parishes fully annexed in 1860, were lost in May 1871 in fires which devastated the Archives of the Seine and the Paris Law Courts. It is estimated that some eight million records were destroyed."

They have managed to re-constitute some of them, with people, at the time, taking in their own copies for example, but there are still a lot missing. Luckily, Jeanne got married well after that.

pottoka

18-09-2009, 10:23 AM

One of the volunteers has added Jeanne's marriage certificate to her list of look ups, so things are moving. Keep your fingers crossed!

pottoka

28-09-2009, 11:56 PM

Céline - "my" volunteer - has put a post on the forum to say that she has found the marriage certificate for Jacob SCHRAGER and Jeanne GODCHAUX. The wedding took place on 8th February 1897.

She is sending me a photocopy. There are a few hiccups in the postal system at the moment with lightning strikes and go-slows, because it's due to be de-nationalised, but the post seems to be getting through. I'll let you know as soon as it arrives.

harbourlady99

01-10-2009, 12:26 PM

Sorry to sound ungrateful but sadly the obvious certificates I already have. I was hoping to go slightly further back and get the parents births/marriage. I know they are called Louis and Rachel and their address at the time of the marriage you mentioned but I can't find anything further back. I am not sure if there is a census done in France because that might be a way of verifying how long they were there. As they are jewish families I have also been searching on the jewish gen site but again alot of the surnames were changed so looking for them is more difficult. Thanks

pottoka

01-10-2009, 2:34 PM

The marriage certificate arrived today, and I find it difficult to believe that you have a copy of it for various reasons:

1) you don't seem to know the daughter's date of birth
2) you say you know where the Schrager parents were living at the time of the wedding
3) you say that the wedding took place on January 24th 1897

According to the certificate:

1) Jeanne Godchaux was born in San Francisco on 23rd March 1877
2) the Schrager parents were both dead at the time of the wedding of their son to Jeanne Godchaux
3) the wedding took place on 8th February 1897 at half past ten; it was the banns which were published on 24th - and 31st - January 1897.

pottoka

01-10-2009, 5:15 PM

Censuses in France are not at all like censuses in Britain and, from the few that I have seen, in Canada. They were taken first with a view purely for having fiscal information; now they concern statistics about the population.

Since the revolution, it was decided that the census would be taken every five years, but Paris was exempted because of the difficulty of the task. The first proper Census taken in Paris was in 1926.

In Paris, there are Censuses from 1926, 1931, 1936 and 1941. To look somebody up on the Census, it is necessary to know where they were living at the date when it was taken. It is not possible to trace a family as they moved around the city for one reason or another; that information needs to be known beforehand.

harbourlady99

01-10-2009, 8:57 PM

Sorry if I mislead you I knew about San Fran but I was unable to find details of the birth day just year. I was informed by someone on line that the records had been destroyed I think by an earthquake which led to fires and destroyed a huge number of records in SF. If the parents of Jacob John were dead at the time of marriage would it be nomal to list them on the banns? Wow I can't believe you have found something that is brilliant. It was the banns that I had the date for you are absolutely right. Apologies all round!! How do I go about getting this marriage certificate?

harbourlady99

01-10-2009, 8:59 PM

Definitely NOT a waste of time!!

pottoka

02-10-2009, 2:28 PM

I'll transcribe and translate it for you and scan it and send everything to you by email. If you want the actual photocopy, with Paris Town Hall written down the side, please give me your postal address, by email or PM.

If you look at the banns carefully, it says:

NAME: Schrager
FIRST NAMES: Jacob John
ADDRESS: 29 rue Bleue
DESCENT: from Louis and Rachel Schrager

So, in fact, the address is given for Jacob. Usually, as is the case on the other sheet, for Jeanne Godchaux, the descent line includes the mother's maiden name, so it would appear that Jacob didn't know it.

pottoka

02-10-2009, 4:50 PM

Sorry to sound ungrateful but sadly the obvious certificates I already have. I was hoping to go slightly further back and get the parents births/marriage. I know they are called Louis and Rachel

According to the marriage certificate, Jacob Schrager was born in Calcutta on 3rd August 1868, so you will have to look for his birth certificate there, and perhaps his parents' marriage lines.

Coincidentally, the records in Paris were destroyed by a fire in 1871; their website says "all the Parish Registers of baptisms, marriages and burials, recorded before 1792, and all the Registry Office records drawn up before 1859 in the former 12 Parisian arrondissements and in the suburb parishes fully annexed in 1860, were lost in May 1871 in fires which devastated the Archives of the Seine and the Paris Law Courts. It is estimated that some eight million records were destroyed."

If the Godchaux/Weill couple were born and married in Paris, their birth and marriage records may well have gone up in smoke in this fire, and, if they weren't in Paris to have them re-constituted, then they will not exist any more. Do you know when Joseph Godchaux and Leontine Weill emigrated to the U.S.? Do you have their entry through Ellis Island? Were they married then?

harbourlady99

03-10-2009, 9:46 AM

I am not sure if they emigrated as they had a number of children there but three of them were back in Paris for their weddings. I haven't looked at the Ellis Island bit yet. Thanks

harbourlady99

12-10-2009, 3:24 PM

Hello Pottaka
I have had some luck with another person on a different angle which has increased my knowledge on the birth dates and towns. I now know that the relation I was trying to find was born in the Alsace region of France in a place I believe to be Bibliesbruck or Bliesbruck sorry something like that anyway. Would I use the same method as before to get a birth cert? The marriage certificate was awesome so much useful info. Thanks so much

pottoka

12-10-2009, 8:52 PM

I'm glad to see that you received the marriage certificate etc alright; I was beginning to think that my email had gone astray, or that you hadn't been able to open the attachments.

It's good to know that it was of use to you, too. :)

pottoka

12-10-2009, 9:28 PM

Hello Pottoka
I have had some luck with another person on a different angle which has increased my knowledge on the birth dates and towns. I now know that the relation I was trying to find was born in the Alsace region of France in a place I believe to be Bibliesbruck or Bliesbruck sorry something like that anyway. Would I use the same method as before to get a birth cert?

I have found a village called Bliesbruck in the Moselle (57) department of France, but it is in Lorraine, not in Alsace.

If by the same method as before, you mean asking a volunteer to look up your relation's birth through the French forum, then, yes, it is possible. I have checked that there is a forum for the Moselle. However, you will need to be precise about the name of the town or village where the person was born.