Mansfield Census - Savage / Gilbert

[Christine]

Could anyone search 1871 and 1891 census records for me please?

I'm trying to find Henry Savage, baptised 1 Jul 1849 and his mother Sarah Ann Savage, bap 8 Jun 1832 in Cuckney. Her mother Mary Ann Savage married Thomas Gilbert after Sarah Ann's birth. Sometimes Sarah Ann and Henry called themselves Gilbert and sometimes Savage.

I have found Sarah with Mary and Thomas in 1841
1841 West Gate, Mansfield
Thomas Gilbert 35, born Notts
Mary Anne Gilbert 27, born Notts
Sarah Gilbert 8, born Notts
Eliza Gilbert 6, born Notts

And Henry too in 1851
1851 Clerkson's Alley
Thomas Gilbert 46, Brewer born Notts Warsop
Mary Ann Gilbert 36 , birthplace Warsop
Sarah Ann Gilbert 19 Seamstress, Derbyshire Nether Langwith
George 16, Masons Labourer, Notts Mansfield
Elizabeth 15 Cotton Doubler, Notts Mansfield
Henry 1, Notts Mansfield

Here they are in 1861
1861 Census, Valance's yard, Portland Street
Mary A Gilbert, widow 45, Cotton Seamer born Nottingham
Sarah Gilbert 28 Unmarried Cotton Twist doubler, Derbyshire Langwith
Elizabeth 23 Unmarried, Cotton Twist doubler, Notts Mansfield
Henry 13 Cotton Twist doubler Notts Mansfield
John Nelson Lodger unmarried 29 Ag labourer Notts Sutton Ashfield

I can't find Sarah or Henry in 1871 but Henry's 1871 marriage gave me the following info:
In 1871 when he married he was 21, a Moulder living at Stockwell Gate he gave his father's name as Henry Gilbert - Moulder.


Sarah is missing in 1881 but here is Henry
1881 census living at 18 Newgate Lane
Henry GILBERT Head M Male 31 Mansfield Works At Iron Foundry
Jane GILBERT Wife Female 29 Mansfield
Mary GILBERT Daur Female 10 Mansfield Scholar
Hannah GILBERT Daur Female 8 Mansfield Scholar
Henry GILBERT Son Male 6 Mansfield Scholar
John GILBERT Son Male 4 Mansfield
George GILBERT Son Male 1 Mansfield

Henry died in Mansfield in 1899 and Sarah in 1900.

Thanks for any missing information you can find.

Christine

[Magpie1]

I have found Henry in 1891 but not having any luck with his mother Sarah Ann so far.

From 1891 Census, living at 55 Newgate Lane, Mansfield
Henry Gilbert 41 Iron Moulder
Jane Gilbert 39
Mary Gilbert 20 Shoe Hand
Hannah Gilbert 18 Cotton Doubler
Henry Gilbert 16 Iron Moulder apprentice
John Gilbert 14 Scholar
George Gilbert 11
Jane Gilbert 9
Maria Gilbert 6
Elizabeth Gilbert 4
Sarah Gilbert 2


Also found in the Parish Registers, not sure if they are any help

Henry Savage Bapt. 01-07-1849 Mansfield St. Peter
Mother Sarah Factory Hand

Thomas Savage Bapt. 10-06-1853 Mansfield St. Peter
Mother Sarah Ann Spinster

Thomas Gilbert married Mary Ann Savage 18-11-1832 Cuckney (see Norton Cuckney)

[Magpie1]

Also

Thomas Gilbert Born 29-08-1805 Bapt. 22-09-1805 Warsop, Father Saml Mother Sarah

[Keyboard86]

Only an off chance, but a Sarah SAVAGE is shown as a "seamer of hose" in the "Lunatic Asylum at Snenton Nottingham, it sates she was born in Carlton in Notts and aged 49, I do not know where the parish boundarys started and finished at this time, but when i Google all the place names mentioned the distance is not that far apart.

As I say only a possible, but this may give reason for not finding Sarah in the "normal" records. this was found in the PRO ref RG11 3348.

Check it out, maybe you can find out from her death certificate where she died.

Best Regards
Keyboard86

[Christine]

Thanks to the 1891 Census I have a more accurate DOB for Sarah Gilbert.
I was very interested to learn of the Baptism of Thomas Savage (1853) as I didn't know Henry had any siblings. I now see from Free BMD that Thomas's death was registered Jun 1953 so he didn't live long.
Sarah Ann died in Mansfield, working as a housekeeper. I'd seen the 1881 Census for her in the Asylum and although agree that seems to be the only possible person, I don't see how she went from there to working back in Mansfield. I do have her death cert. and a report from the newspaper.

[Christine]

I think my only hope of more information is find Sarah Ann in the 1891 census and to search in the Poor records in Mansfield to see if she received any support. I'm not sure when I will be able to do this but she is my GG Grandmother and it would be very interesting to fill in the gaps for her.

Thank you for your support.

[Keyboard86]

Hi Christine, as you have Death Certificate for Sarah Ann is she shown as a Gilbert or Savage, and did she die in Mansfield area 1900

Best Regards
Keyboard86

[Christine]

Hi Keyboard,

Her death was registered as Sarah Ann Savage and she died on 3 Feb 1900. She slipped in the snow coming out of a house in Rock Valley, Mansfield, fell over a wall and into the road where she died. She was single and a Housekeeper.

After her the family couldn't decide whether to call themselves Savage or Gilbert, which has made for interesting research.

I've not done much family history research for about 5 years and I see there has been some additional info added to records in that time. I've now found another child of Sarah Ann's, George baptised 11 Dec 1863 - died March 1863 - she was living at Mount Pleasant in Mansfield when he was baptised.

Best regards,

Christine

[Keyboard86]

Hi Christine, using mobile so excuse typos!
What does Death Cert say as to informant, etc.
Where is MitchinNotts when you need him?!
Caroline I am not at work, contact Mitch sure he will help.
Best Regards
Keyboard86|5cups|

[Mitch in Notts]

Just to clarify because I`m getting lost (I have just come in from work yawn)

We are looking for Henry Savage (born 1849 out of wedlock) on the 1871 census. AKA Henry Gilbert.
He marries late 1871 so is still single on the census.
(He marries as Henry Savage).


We are also looking for Sarah Ann Savage born 1832 out of wedlock (so she may be going under the surname Gilbert) on the 1871/81/91 census. I think the 1881 suggestion at Sneinton is a reasonable suggestion and shouldn`t be ruled out.

Right further investigation needed.

Mitch

[Mitch in Notts]

A possibility for Henry on the 1871 census:

RG10 3473 4 1

Sutton Road Mansfield

Mary Ann GILBERT 59 Head
George GILBERT 32 Son
Henry GILBERT 21 Son

While I realise its not Mary Anns son we are looking for do you have Mary Ann elsewhere on the 1871?
Was he brought up believing he was Mary Anns son?

Drawing a blank with Sarah I`m afraid.

Mitch

[Christine]

Keyboard asked: What does Death Cert (for Sarah Ann Savage) say as to informant, etc?

Not much joy on this. The informant was "Certificate received from D. Whittingham Coroner for Nottinghamshire - inquest held 6th February 1900."

I've not had any experience getting coroner's reports but the press report doesn't say who found her.

Christine

[Keyboard86]

Christine, what leads you to believe the Death Cert/News article is "your Sarah Ann?
Best Regards
Keyboard86

[Christine]

A possibility for Henry on the 1871 census:

RG10 3473 4 1

Sutton Road Mansfield

Mary Ann GILBERT 59 Head
George GILBERT 32 Son
Henry GILBERT 21 Son

While I realise its not Mary Anns son we are looking for do you have Mary Ann elsewhere on the 1871?
Was he brought up believing he was Mary Anns son?

Drawing a blank with Sarah I`m afraid.

Mitch

The names fit and although the ages are a bit awry (Mary would have been 51, George 36, Henry 22), I think this is them. I don't have Mary Ann elsewhere on the 1871.

Henry's birth was registered as Savage, he was baptised as Savage, married as Savage but his death was registered as Gilbert. His first 4 children were baptised Savage, Nos 5 & 6 Gilbert, 7 & 8 Savage, 9, 10 & 11 Gilbert.

I think Gilbert was his usual name and Savage his Sunday name. One of his children, my Grandmother, changed from Savage to Gilbert and back again.

Christine

[Christine]

Christine, what leads you to believe the Death Cert/News article is "your Sarah Ann?
Best Regards
Keyboard86

Hi Keyboard,

Her name, age and Mansfield, circumstantial evidence I'm afraid.

Best regards, Christine

[Keyboard86]

Hi Christine, think I may have found Henry on 1871 census ref rg10 3745, he is shown as a boarder at 323 George street Birkenhead born Nottinghamshire.

He is shown as working as a bricksetter(Moulder?)

He has reverted to Gilbert as surname.

Hope this helps
Keyboard86

[Keyboard86]

Just an add on he lives beside the yard and sheds of the Great Western Railway, lots of iron there then!

Best Regards
Keyboard86

[Keyboard86]

Sarah Savage shown on 1871 census still in Nottingham asylum, now going for 1891 census to see if she was allowed out, as you may know she was shown on both census as a Pauper. may not be her but accounts for 2 missing census.

Keyboard86

[Keyboard86]

Sarah Savage shown on 1871 census still in Nottingham asylum, now going for 1891 census to see if she was allowed out, as you may know she was shown on both census as a Pauper. may not be her but accounts for 2 missing census.

Keyboard86 Just a thought re death certificate/newspaper article, on the 1891 census a Sarah Ann Savage, born Chesterfield Derbyshire, is shown working in Oldham Lancs as a Housekeeper, she is not shown on 1901 census ? died in Mansfield possibly in 1900? Am I correct in thinking Chesterfield is not to far away from Mansfield.

Bests regards
Keyboard86

[Christine]

Just a thought re death certificate/newspaper article, on the 1891 census a Sarah Ann Savage, born Chesterfield Derbyshire, is shown working in Oldham Lancs as a Housekeeper, she is not shown on 1901 census ? died in Mansfield possibly in 1900? Am I correct in thinking Chesterfield is not to far away from Mansfield.

Bests regards
Keyboard86

Chesterfield is 11 miles from Mansfield and 9 miles from Nether Langwith, which is where Sarah Ann is shown as being born on the 51 and 61 Census. The death certificate I have is for 1900.

[Christine]

Hi Christine, think I may have found Henry on 1871 census ref rg10 3745, he is shown as a boarder at 323 George street Birkenhead born Nottinghamshire.

He is shown as working as a bricksetter(Moulder?)

He has reverted to Gilbert as surname.

Hope this helps
Keyboard86

Is this Henry single? If so I think you may well have found all the missing Census for both Henry and Sarah Ann.

|bowdown| Well done and thanks very much.

Regards, Christine

[Keyboard86]

Chesterfield is 11 miles from Mansfield and 9 miles from Nether Langwith, which is where Sarah Ann is shown as being born on the 51 and 61 Census. The death certificate I have is for 1900.

Hi Christine, what I am saying is that is the death certificate you have stated that the Sarah Ann Savage who died in 1900 was a Housekeeper, this bears out the finding of the lady from Chesterfield, I know she was in Oldham in the 1891 Census, what I am suggesting is that inbetween the 1891 and 1901 census she returned to the locality as a Housekeeper, (possibly in Mansfield)
and it is she who died in 1900, and not our lady.

Only a thought but I think this is her.

Best Regards
have not given up on what I believe is our lady, will ask advise re Paupers records, one further thing is on the 2 census 1871/1881 she has dropped the Ann part of her name, if this is her .....why?

Keyboard86

[Christine]

I agree Keyboard, this looks like her. She probably was just known as Sarah and so only gave that part of her name - my lot seem to do that quite often. Henry married someone whose father changed his name back and forth on each census - but that's another story ...

Christine