1861 census look up Manchester

[TerryK]

Could someone please help me with a look up in the 1861 census.
I am searching for William Turner-wife Anne-at least one son, Jeremiah, born
1838 IN Ancoats, Manchester.

Many thanks
Terry

[Pam Downes]

Hi Terry,
The bad news is that unless a large town/city has at least a surname index any request for a look-up is almost certainly doomed to fail. I would suspect that Manchester in 1861 was at least the same size as Norwich - and Norwich's 1861 census has over 2700 pages.
You are slightly luckier than most people though. Firstly you live near enough the local Record Office to be able to go and spend many happy hours trawling through all those census pages. :D
Or it would appear that the 1861 census for Lancashire is available online pay-to-view at
thegenealogist.sandn.net/index.php

Pam Downes

[TerryK]

Pam,
Thank you for your efforts.
When it`s a bit warmer I`ll have ride down to the record office. Let me know if I can return your favour.
Kind regards
Terry

[uksearch]

Just to add to Pam's message.Certain parts of the 1861 census for Manchester have been surnamed indexed,Chorlton On Medlock, Didsbury, Hulme and Moss Side.With a common surname like TURNER there could be numerous entries.I have just had a look at the 1861 Trade Directory for Manchester & Salford.There were in excess of 200 Listings for TURNER and 44 alone for Williams or Wms TURNERs.Do you have any idea of a trade or address for William?

UK

[Pam Downes]

Certain parts of the 1861 census for Manchester have been surnamed indexed,Chorlton On Medlock, Didsbury, Hulme and Moss Side.

Hi UK,

I did see on the Manchester & Lancashire FHS page that these places had been indexed but dismissed them as not relevant because in the A-Z index they weren't listed under Manchester. I know that they are part of Greater Manchester today, but were they and similar places such as Crumpsall and Burnage officially classed as Manchester way back then?

Pam Downes

[John]

Hi UK,

I did see on the Manchester & Lancashire FHS page that these places had been indexed but dismissed them as not relevant because in the A-Z index they weren't listed under Manchester. I know that they are part of Greater Manchester today, but were they and similar places such as Crumpsall and Burnage officially classed as Manchester way back then?

Pam Downes
Pam,
that would depend on whether you were talking about the City of Manchester or the Parish of Manchester:)

John

[TerryK]

Thanks John,Pam and UK
The areas I mentioned were all in Manchester. William Turner worked in a cotton mill as a spinner.
Many thanks for your efforts,
Regards, Terry

[TerryK]

Pam, John and UK,
How stupid of me (old age !) I have the birth (1838) and marriage (1862) certificates of William Turners son, Jeremiah, both in Ancoats and both showing William as a cotton spinner and still living in 1862.
The marriage shows they were living at 49 Jersey st. I think this may have been Williams address.
I need to find if William had any more children.
Williams wife is shown as Ann Fielding but I can find no record of the marriage.
All marriages and christenings I have found were at Manchester cathedral.
Kind regards
Terry

[Pam Downes]

Pam,
that would depend on whether you were talking about the City of Manchester or the Parish of Manchester:)

Trust a man to complicate matters. :)

Hi John,
So obviously if someone says that great granddad was born in Manchester you have to ask them if they mean the Parish or the City and if they say that they don't know, you tell them that they've got a problem.
Terry was able to say Ancoats which I presume would have been part of the City, as would have Didsbury, Hulme, etc, even back in ye olde days, just as you have all the different parts of London?
(Sorry to be so thick but my only acquaintance with Manchester so far has been the M60 between the M62 and the M61. )
I supose what threw me was that other cities I've come into contact with (Lincoln and Norwich) are mainly
just 'divided' into parishes.

Pam Downes

[TerryK]

Pam,
You almost passed my front door, you would have been welcome to a cup of tea.!
Regards
Terry

[Pam Downes]

Pam,
You almost passed my front door, you would have been welcome to a cup of tea.!

Sorry to sound ungrateful Terry but after those 3 roads something a little stronger than tea is called for. :D
(The M25 is a piece of cake compared to the M62.)

Pam Downes

[uksearch]

Hi UK,

I did see on the Manchester & Lancashire FHS page that these places had been indexed but dismissed them as not relevant because in the A-Z index they weren't listed under Manchester. I know that they are part of Greater Manchester today, but were they and similar places such as Crumpsall and Burnage officially classed as Manchester way back then?

Pam Downes


Hulme and Chorlton on Medlock are very close to the city and Moss Side is next to Hulme.Didsbury is a few miles to the south of the City.C on M was incorperated into the City in 1838,Hulme was certainly under control of the council by 1844 as they passed a law banning the building of any more back to back houses there.Moss Side wasn't incorperated untill 1904 and I would guess about the same would apply to Didsbury.Burnage came into the City in 1904 whilst Crumpsall joined 14 years earlier.

Just to add that in 1838 The City only covered the very central districts of Cheetham,Beswick,Ardwick,Hulme and C on M. Take a look at
www.manchester2002-uk.com/towns/manchester1.html

UK

[uksearch]

Pam, John and UK,
How stupid of me (old age !) I have the birth (1838) and marriage (1862) certificates of William Turners son, Jeremiah, both in Ancoats and both showing William as a cotton spinner and still living in 1862.
The marriage shows they were living at 49 Jersey st. I think this may have been Williams address.
I need to find if William had any more children.
Williams wife is shown as Ann Fielding but I can find no record of the marriage.
All marriages and christenings I have found were at Manchester cathedral.
Kind regards
Terry


Now you have given me ALL the details many will think that this should be easy to find...possibly...possibly not.That part of Manchester is like a rabbit warren.Jersey St appears in 7 EDs so it may take me a while to find it.Here's hoping the street was numbered in the Census


UK.

[uksearch]

I ploughed through Census returns for Ancoats taking a magical mystery tour of the area.(As an aside I used to park my car in Jersey street when I worked for the Daily Express).I eventually found 49 Jersey St but a Peter Morris aged 46,a grocer from Wigan was living with wife,child and servant plus 7 lodgers.From the TD I got another couple of addresses for Ancoats.Yet again no luck.

I decided to take another tack and tried to find Jeremiah's baptism and his wedding.He was baptised at what was to become Manchester Cathedral 25th Apr 1838 Jeremiah son of William & Ann TURNER,Manchester,Spinner.
The IGI gives A Man Cath wedding for Jeremiah to Alice CLAYTON 9th Nov 1862 NOT to Ann FIELDING.Where does your certifcate state the marriage took place?
Here's the details from the PRs.
Jeremiah TURNER,24,Bachelor,Maker Up,25 Maria St.Father,WilliamTURNER,Spinner &
Alice CLAYTON,20,Spinster,25 Maria St.Father,Andrew CLAYTON,Collier were married ...by Banns..Witnesses Joseph ROBERTS and Eliza STOTT.They were not at Maria St for the Census.


UK

[John]

Trust a man to complicate matters. :)

Pam, sometimes I should learn to keep my mouth shut :D
It's really one of those very lose things. If I'm talking to a stranger to the area, I would tell them that I was born in Manchester, if I was talking to somebody familiar with Manchester, I would tell them Blackley.
All made more complicted by the fact that the City of Manchester was incorporating seperate towns and districts well into the 20th century, and shedding other districts.
Hulme, for instance was a township in the parish of Manchester, but was not a part of the city,
But enough of this, I'm taking off my pedants hat.

John

[TerryK]

Thanks for your efforts UK,
I think we have our wires crossed.
I have Jeremiahs birth and marriage certificates, the details of which you speak are correct. - William Turner was Jeremiahs father, who married Ann Fielding previous (?) to Jeremiahs birth in 1838. It is details of William that I am searching.

Both certificates were copies of the originals and show Manchester Cathedral.
Again, many thanks for your time.
ps. my wife is from Blackley and considers herself a Mancunian. I am from Failsworth (now part of Oldham) and consider myself a Mancunian.

[Pam Downes]

Pam, sometimes I should learn to keep my mouth shut :D
It's really one of those very lose things. If I'm talking to a stranger to the area, I would tell them that I was born in Manchester, if I was talking to somebody familiar with Manchester, I would tell them Blackley.
All made more complicted by the fact that the City of Manchester was incorporating seperate towns and districts well into the 20th century, and shedding other districts.
Hulme, for instance was a township in the parish of Manchester, but was not a part of the city,
But enough of this, I'm taking off my pedants hat.

Hi John,
I insist that it's my fault entirely. :D
As I said before, because my brain had been used to seeing cities except London divided into parishes for some reason I never thought that some cities would be like London with areas known by specific names.
At least I know who to ask for advice if I ever I find any of my lot lost in Manchester. :)

Thank you to everyone for extending my knowledge of Manchester.

Pam Downes

[uksearch]

Pam, John and UK,
How stupid of me (old age !) I have the birth (1838) and marriage (1862) certificates of William Turners son, Jeremiah, both in Ancoats and both showing William as a cotton spinner and still living in 1862.
The marriage shows they were living at 49 Jersey st. I think this may have been Williams address.
I need to find if William had any more children.
Williams wife is shown as Ann Fielding but I can find no record of the marriage.
All marriages and christenings I have found were at Manchester cathedral.
Kind regards
Terry


I am sorry but you have lost me now! The PRs that I have access to of Jeremiah's wedding give both their addresses as 25 Maria St.You say their marriage (certificate) shows 49 Jersey St as their address.Is it a photo copy of the original certificate or is it a hand written copy? Or I am missing something?

UK

[TerryK]

uksearch,
please accept the delay in answering.
You were righr, MY FAULT again !
It was jeremiahs Birth cert. that showed the jersey st. address.
My apologies and thanks again.
Terry

[uksearch]

No problem at all Terry.

UK

[uksearch]

This looks like Jeremiah in 1861 Living with a MOSTON family.

RG 9 2889 folio 103
Jeremiah TURNER..Lodger..U..22..Packer & Maker Up..Manchester

I can't as yet find William...any idea when where he was born?;)


UK

[pammy]

hya ,just checking what william you seeking an did your family have connections with any turner's in 1930'sfrom manchester or stoke-on-trent as i am trying to find family on my mum's side for time an come the a stop ,if not thanks anyway an good luck in your search .regard pam

[lancsbank51]

Hi all i seem to be blessed with the same problem mine is a bertha turner daughter of william turner and betty .both parents 35 in the 1881 census.Problem is 2 bettys for the b m d index.