Brock Family - Camberwell

[AnnB]

Is there anyone who could have a look at a couple of addresses in the 1851 census of Camberwell for me? The family concerned were John and Sarah Brock and, by 1851, their children were Elizabeth, Matilda, George, Charles, Elias, Samuel and Reuben. In 1849 they were living at 40, Edmund St., Camberwell and in 1852 (when their last child, Susan, was born) they were living at 3, James St., Camberwell. Were they at either of these addresses in 1851? I need to confirm that John was born in Lambeth and what age he gave in 1851. So far, his date of birth (gleaned from various sources) ranges from 1804-1809!

Many thanks

Ann

[Alan Grove]

Ann,

I had a look at my copy of the 1851 census and could not find the Brock family at Edmund Place. However I did find John & Sarah Brock at 3, Mosely Place, James Street, Camberwell. Not all of the names of the children match up with your posting, but there are enough similarities to convince me that this is what you are looking for.

My copy of the data is quite awful, but there should be enough to answer your queries. I have commented in brackets where I could not decipher the writing.

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HO107/1580 - folio 348
Parish of St Giles, Camberwell
Ecclesiastical Division of Emmanuel
Borough of Lambeth (This appears to have been crossed out on the original document)
Village of Camberwell


Schedule 126 - 3, Moseley Place, James Street


Name - Relationship to Head of Family - Condition - Age - Occupation - Where Born


John Brock - Head - Married - 40 - (Occupation indecipherable) - Surrey, Lambeth
Sarah Brock - Wife - Married - 42 - (No occupation) - Surrey, LambethParish of St Giles, Camberwell
Ecclesiastical Division of Emmanuel
Borough of Lambeth (This appears to have been crossed out on the original document)
Village of Camberwell


Schedule 126 - 3, Moseley Place, James Street


Name - Relationship to Head of Family - Condition - Age - Occupation - Where Born


John Brock - Head - Married - 40 - (Occupation indecipherable) - Surrey, Lambeth
Sarah Brock - Wife - Married - 42 - (No occupation) - Surrey, Lambeth
John Brock - Son - Unmarried - 16 - Labourer - Surrey, Lambeth
Charles Brock - Son - (No Marital Status) - 14 - Labourer - Surrey, Lambeth
Elias Brock - Son - (No Marital Status) - 13 - (No Occupation) - Surrey, Lambeth
Samuel Brock - Son - (No Marital Status) - 10 - (Occupation indecipherable) - Surrey, Lambeth
(Looks like Mary Brock) - Daughter - (No Marital Status) - 8 - (Occupation as for Samuel) - Surrey, Lambeth
Henry Brock - Son - (No Marital Status) - 7 - (Occupation as for Samuel) - Surrey, Lambeth
Rachael Brock - Daughter - (No Marital Status) - 4 - (No Occupation) - Surrey, Lambeth
Reuben Brock - Son - (No Marital Status) - 2 - (No Occupation) - Surrey, Camberwell

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John Brock - Son - Unmarried - 16 - Labourer - Surrey, Lambeth
Charles Brock - Son - (No Marital Status) - 14 - Labourer - Surrey, Lambeth
Elias Brock - Son - (No Marital Status) - 13 - (No Occupation) - Surrey, Lambeth
Samuel Brock - Son - (No Marital Status) - 10 - (Occupation indecipherable) - Surrey, Lambeth
(Looks like Mary Brock) - Daughter - (No Marital Status) - 8 - (Occupation as for Samuel) - Surrey, Lambeth
Henry Brock - Son - (No Marital Status) - 7 - (Occupation as for Samuel) - Surrey, Lambeth
Rachael Brock - Daughter - (No Marital Status) - 4 - (No Occupation) - Surrey, Lambeth
Reuben Brock - Son - (No Marital Status) - 2 - (No Occupation) - Surrey, Camberwell

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James Street was just off Southampton Street and is now known as Harris Street. My GG-Grandfather (Charles Grove) lived nearby with his family in 1844 in Westmoreland Place (now Sedgemoor Place). Unfortunately they seem to have moved on by 1851. If you ever come across them in the area around this time I would love to hear about it.

[AnnB]

Alan

Thank you very much for tracking down my husband's Brock's on the 1851 census. The unreadable occupation for John could be 'grave digger', as that is what he aspired to on a couple of his children's birth certs.! The whole family are proving a real pain, but that is not your problem! I will certainly keep my eyes for your Grove family. Strangely enough the Brocks did have a distant connection with a family of Groves, but they came from High Easter in Essex in the 1700's.

Many thanks again
Best wishes
Ann

[N Grove]

I am trcing my Grove ancestors who came from High Easter and would be interested in any information that you have on the Grove family connected to your Brock family

[AnnB]

I'm afraid I don't have much info on them at all. It isn't a line I have done much with!

However, what I do know is that my husband's 3x gt grandmother was Jane Groves (daughter of James Groves and Ann) baptised at High Easter on 12th March 1797. Jane married Allen Little at High Easter on the 15th September 1818. It was this couple's gt grandaughter, Lydia Eliza Little, who married into the Brock family.

Best wishes
Ann

[N Grove]

Ann. Thank you for that it has helped to add some more to my tree.
I am descended from Joseph Groves b. 1800 at High Easter brother of Jane Groves. I have not managed to get back before James and Ann and am still researching his descendants.

Thanks again
Norman

[AnnB]

Hello Norman

I've had another look at the info I have on the Groves and found the following -
George Groves bapt 12th March 1797 at High Easter married Elizabeth Little on the 5th December 1821, also at High Easter. (From parish registers)
They went on to have the following children - William born circa 1823, Joseph born circa 1826, Eliza born circa 1829, Charlotte born circa 1831, Ann Born circa 1833, Susan born circa 1836 and Lucy born circa 1838. (From 1841 census HO107/328/10 Folio 29 Page 14 - living at Staylen Cross Farm, High Easter)
George Groves was brother to Jane Groves and Elizabeth Little was sister to Allen Little - so, brother and sister marrying brother and sister :)

Pretty sure I haven't got any more about the Groves, but will keep looking

Best wishes
Ann