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Carmy
13-05-2009, 12:05 AM
I found three with birthdates within a few years of each other. Which one should I follow?

Newcastle Emlyn, 1885 or 1887 (mentioned twice)

Page numbers found are 11b, 27, 28, 32.

How can I find out which one is mine? Where should I go to access those pages?

Procat
13-05-2009, 7:27 AM
You will probably need to get some at least of the certificates from the GRO (http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/).

They cost 7 pounds but you can ask them to check the name of a parent (probably the name of the mother is best in case Dad is not recorded) and to only provide a certificate if it matches. They will charge 3 pound to do the search but if they find a match they do not charge the search fee for that certificate.

John Nicholas
13-05-2009, 10:07 AM
Hello Carmy,

Procat has given good advice (he's not just a pretty face!). But I wonder how sure you are about, in particular, the registration district. A FreeBMD search on Sarah Ann(e) Davies across those years in Carmarthenshire, Cardiganshire and Pembrokeshire produces between one and 5 results per quarter.

Newcastle Emlyn is technically in Carmarthenshire, although it does straddle the Cards border. Perhaps you know all this but I thought I'd flag it up before you start spending money.

John

Carmy
13-05-2009, 2:59 PM
Many thanks to both of you.

The information I have came via BMD. Sarah Anne Davies was my grandmother, married to Thomas Edward Crompton in 1902. They lived at Penlanganol Farm, Cwmpengraig, Drefach Velindre, CMN just a mile or so from the Cardigan border. So far, anything registered for the family occurs in Newcastle Emlyn, i.e., all births of children and marriages.

The Crompton burial plot is at Penboyr Church, CMN and Sarah Anne us buried there, but I can't find additional details of her family or, for that matter, anything for my grandfather. He appears to be the first generation of Cromptons in the area.

I guess I'm against a brickwall until more transcripts appear on BMD. I'm one of the volunteers, so I'm doing my bit to them on line.

Carmy
13-05-2009, 3:03 PM
p.s.

On BMD, the marriage record shows Sarah Anne Davies as page 11b and 37, so she's the one I need.

John Nicholas
13-05-2009, 5:06 PM
That looks good. I assume you realise that the marriage certificate should give the names and occupations of both fathers, if they are in any doubt.

Have you tracked either grandparent through the censuses?

By the way, Thomas Edward CROMPTON was registered at Newcastle E in June quarter 1880, vol 11b page 27 (source FreeBMD).

John

Carmy
14-05-2009, 12:00 AM
Many thanks for the information, John.

I found my grandfather's brother, James Morgan Crompton, registered in Newcastle Emlyn in 1878. I assume it's the same family because the name is fairly rare in Wales. I think it means there are great-grandparents around somewhere, unless they moved down from Lancashire where most Cromptons seem to live.

I haven't checked many censuses yet but I seem to have hit a dead end with my mother's side of things so that's my next move.

BMD is a wonderful resource and much easier to use than some other places I could mention. And I'm very grateful for the help I'm finding here.

Carmy
15-05-2009, 2:03 PM
I'm finding it hard to get any information from censuses and I'm ready to scream at Ancestry. Although I have UK & Ireland set up in Favourites, the minute I log on Ancestry kindly redirectes me to Ancestry.ca and I have to go all through the process of getting to the UK all over again. This is harder than the process of emigrating.

I believe I've found Sarah Anne's mother Elizabeth (40) and her grandmother Dinah (70) in the 1981 census. Both were widows. I also think I've found Thomas Edward's father David S (24) born in 1877 who lived in the Penbryn, Newcastle Emlyn. There is also a connection with Edward in Llandyfriog in 1880 but the transcriber typed the last name as Cromton

Most (all, I think) the information is coming through FreeBMD because I'm not having much luck with finding free information on censuses.

John Nicholas
16-05-2009, 7:50 AM
Carmy,

I got really confused by your last posting. In the 1881 census, Tom Edward Cromton (sic) is on RG11/ 5433 f 13 p 20:

Penffin, Llandyfriog, Newcastle Emlyn, Cardiganshire (sic)
Edward Cromton Head Mar 30 General labourer London
Mary Cromton Wife Mar 26 - Carmarthen, Cilrhedyn?
David Johnson Cromton Son 5 Scholar Cardigan Llandyfriog
Tom Edward Cromton Son 11 months - Cardigan Llandyfriog

So now you know where Edward senior came from, which may or may not help! The border problem is a bit confusing. By the way, Cromton is not a variant which comes up readily on A* if you search for Crompton (Crump and various others come up much more). So you might be wise to search specifically for it.

Edward CROMPTON married Mary EVANS Sep 1875 Newcastle Emlyn Vol 11b p 45 (or rather, those names are on the same page and match the census info above).

John

John Nicholas
16-05-2009, 8:07 AM
In 1891, Edward Crompton senior is on his own, lodging in Glamorgan (near where I grew up, in fact!): RG12/ 4410 f 92 p5.
Here is says he was born London, Somerset Place, which might help you later on.

I could not readily see Thomas Edward and the rest of the family, but that is on a cursory search only.

John

Carmy
16-05-2009, 2:11 PM
You are a great help to me, John. Thank you.

I came across the Cromton (sic) entry while searching for Crompton. It appeared half way down the page so even the search site thought it appeared valid. Some people don't sound the p when they say the name so a clerk or transcriber could easily be confused.

Birth Year <1880>
Birthplace Llandyfriog, Cardigan, Wales
Age 11 m
Head of Household Edward CROMTON

Dwelling Penffin
Census Place Llandyfriog, Cardigan, Wales
Family History Library Film 1342308
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 5433 / 13
Page Number 20

I also came across the reference to London, which I found very confusing. I'll try following it through to see where it leads. Yours is the first connection I've seen to Glamorgan around that time, although I have family in Glamorgan now (Pontrhydyfen and Taibach). Having Newastle Emlyn show up in both Cardiganshire and Carmarthenshire doesn't help. I always check both counties and tend to find information in both counties, too.

So David S Crompton of Penbryn doesn't look to be of the same family. I assumed a connection because of the location and because, following what seems to be the rule when naming babies, Thomas Edward and Sarah Anne's first boy was named David (my dad). The second son they named Edward (Ted). Other siblings were named William and Rachel. Hah! And I thought having uncommon names (on both sides of the family) would make it easier to research.

What I'm gleaning right now is that Thomas Edward was a farm labourer (it keeps cropping up) who married the daughter (Sarah Anne Davies) of a widow (Elizabeth Davies) and grandaughter of a widow (Dinah Davies) who all lived at Penlanganol Farm, Cwmpengraig. It would explain why Sarah Anne was the boss in all things to do with the family--her family owned the land for several generations. I found reference to 43 acres but I am no good at judging area size so I have no idea how big that would be. In Penboyr churchyard, the family has a fair sized plot railed off for their own use. It isn't something I've seen too often so the family must have been thought wealthy or important at one time. Mind you, they could have been like Sarah Anne who liked to put on a good show. Her gravestone is a sight to see, very fancy.

Once again, Many thanks for your help.

John Nicholas
16-05-2009, 3:32 PM
One to look at from 1861:
Edward Crompton aged 8 born London is living with his grandparents, James & Eleanor Jones, at Cwmdu farm in Bettws Evan, Cards: RG9/ 4183 f 23 p 4.

In 1901, Edward and Mary are back at Cwmdu, with four of their younger children: RG13/ 5140 f 90 p 1.

John

John Nicholas
16-05-2009, 3:47 PM
FreeBMD has no Edward Cromptons registered in London between 1850 and 1854. However, there are:
Edward CRUMPTON Sep 1851 Marylebone Vol 1 p 170
Edward CRAMPHORN Sep 1852 Bermondsey 1d 77

John

Carmy
16-05-2009, 5:10 PM
Fantastic, John. Thank you so much.

I'm going to have some lunch and then I'll try tracking down his grandparents. It could be how the name Crompton ended up in Caridiganshire or Carmarthenshire. If they were also farmers, and it was probably a small farm, it makes sense that Edward would have to look for work elsewhere.

I'll let you know if I find anything.

Carmy
21-05-2009, 5:49 PM
A mystery.

I found this during this morning's search:

1851 Census Penboyr
Penlanganol, Elizabeth, Davies, Dau,,13,, Penboyr, CMN
Penlanganol, Jane, Davies, Wife, M, 50,, Penboyr, CMN

Earlier searches gave:
Penlanganol, Dinah, Davies, Head, Widow, 71, Farmer, Carmarthen, Penboyr 1891 Census Penboyr (Born 1820?)

Penlanganol, Elizabeth, Davies, Daughter, Widow, 40, Farmer's daughter, Carmarthen, Penboyr 1891 Census Penboyr (Born 1841?)

Is it possible that more than one Mr. Davies farmed there and these are cousins or sisters-in-law? (Sorry, I don't have any men's names for these widows.)

The farm was fairly large but I've just found out it has been turned into holiday cottages: Penlanganol Holiday Cottages in Carmarthenshire. (Trying to find a photo.) I know my father and his siblings had no interest in farming and that Sarah Anne's will spread the money among children and numerous grandchildren, so I guess that saw the demise of the old homestead.

Any suggestions? It still looks like Elizabeth was Sarah Anne's mother.

LizShu
23-06-2009, 6:26 PM
Sarah Ann was my grandmother.Her parents were David Davies & Rachel James.Sarah Ann(Siran) lived in Penlanganol all her life There were 2 farms next to each other Penlanganol & Penlangerrig.The family members seemed to move back & forth between the 2 farms & I believe some members lived in the out houses.(the cause of your mystery!)I have lots of info too much to fit here. If you ask specific questions with relevant dates then I may be able to help you

LizShu
23-06-2009, 9:12 PM
Who were your parents? Was your father David?I didn't know I had a cousin in Canada! Our grandfather Tom was born in Llandyfriog but was a farm servant in Penlanganol?He must have fallen in love with the owner's daughter!Tom & Siran had 8 children, 2 of whom died in infancy.I have a copy of a photo of them with 7 of their children.
I visited Penlanganol a few months ago. It's greatly changed since I went there as a child before my grandparents died.
I'm new to this site , not sure if I'm using it correctly!I do hope you get this message as I'm now very curious.

Carmy
24-06-2009, 12:12 AM
Hi, Liz. Wow! We might be part of the same family.

Yes, David was my father. I had an Uncle Will, and an Uncle Ted. Ted's son is Gareth. Uncle Will spent some time in Canada and married later in life, when he returned to Wales.

There was an Aunty Ray (Rachel), and an aunt who lived in Conwil Elfed but I don't remember her name. They ran the post office there. Their son, Gethin, was killed in a motorbike accident years ago.

I have only vague memories of Penlanganol and only remember visiting there once as a child, when my grandfather was still alive.

If any of these seem familiar, then we are related.

How exciting!

Carmy
24-06-2009, 12:17 AM
Hi again, Liz.

I've sent you a PM but I'm not sure if I've set it up right. If you don't get it, let me know.

Carmy