Gt gt gt Grandmother's Family!!

[niglor]

Could someone please help me to try and find out who my 3 x Gt Grandmother belonged to??

Her name was Mary Ann Shipman (she could just go by the name Mary Shipman) and was born in Leics abt 1836. There is no actual area of Leics mentioned on the 1861/71/81/91/01 censuses which I have her on.

At the time of her marriage in 1859 she was living in the Saint Margarets area of Leicester. She later moved to Hinckley.

I have also found a Thomas Shipman born abt 1833 and at the time of the 1861 census he is living in the Saint Margarets area so Im wondering if he could be her brother?? His daughter is called Mary Ann but she is listed as being born in 1851 so it isn't mine (but could have been named after mine?)

Ive been trying to sort this out for the past 18 months and cannot find any info - obviousley I could get a marriage certificate but that will be my last resort.

Hope someone can help me on this site.


Niglor

[Wirral]

Ive been trying to sort this out for the past 18 months and cannot find any info - obviousley I could get a marriage certificate but that will be my last resort.r
Buying the marriage certificate will only cost £7, it will give you the evidence you need & will save you & others hours of research & speculation.

[tomg]

As long as you are sure that you have the correct marriage. Then the Certificate has to be the way to go.

I found that the research done on my Family tree contained an error just because the Certificate had not been checked.

Tom.

[Peter Goodey]

I could get a marriage certificate but that will be my last resort.


I think that should be your first resort.

[georgiep]

Hi "N"
You have your Mary in census.
1841 at all? Not an easy census...

The guys are right, the only way to know for sure is to send for the marr cert.

1851 has a Mary Ann Shipman 11 yrs lodging in Hinckley Leicester (she's a seamer of stockings poor little love) with Thos Chelsea Pens & Hannah Cooper 59 & 54.
Possibly her grandp's??

Best wishes
Georgie

[niglor]

Thanks Georgie!

I have come across this Mary before and have wondered if she could be mine?!

I haven't got her on the 1841 census so if anyone can find her there Id be greatful!

I suppose I will have to get her marriage certificate and hope that this has her fathers name on it. She could have been illigitamate or maybe an orphan.

If it is my Mary (poor little thing as you say!) she did go onto to marry and have a family and they appear to have been quite comfortably well off - her one son went onto own a Grocers shop in Hinckley - T. Cuer. A cousin told my mum that her family would often get a lovely Xmas Hamper every year from them! She died in 1909 in Hinckley and I have a photo(taken when she was quite old in all her furs!)

Niglor

[niglor]

Hi Georgie its me again!

Just keyed her name and year of birth into Genes Reunited and got a hit on the 1841 census.

A Mary Shipman fitting her age is living in the Ashby de la Zouch,Blaby,Hinckley and Market Bosworth area.

If anyone can look this Mary up for me we can perhaps find out if it is the Mary you have found in the 1851 census.

Niglor

[Gill Hart]

Hi Niglor,

The Mary you found is living with Thomas Cooper aged 57 and his wife? Hannah aged 45 in Hinckley. The exact place looks like "Sack (or Jack?) Paddle" which seems unusual - perhaps someone who is familiar with the area will correct me.

Thomas is a stocking maker and the whole family are born in Leics.

There is also another Mary Shipman of the right age living in Strathern - parents John and Mary.

HTH
Gill

[niglor]

Thanks Georgie and Gill for the info.

I think that the Hinckley Mary could possibly be mine. The Strathern one is still in Strathern on the 1861 census (along with one from Melton Mowbray and East Leics) and mine was then married and living in Leicester(she and her husband moved back to Hinckley around 1865.)

Thomas Cooper married Hannah (Shipman) 25th May 1820. If they were her parents/grandparents she would have had the name Cooper so Im wondering if they are just relations (ie aunt and uncle maybe?) Its all very confusing. Makes me wonder if she was perhaps an orphan and they were the ones that looked after her. Not been able to find out anything else about Hannah and which Shipman family she's from yet.

Coincidently there is a Shipman living not far from Mary and her family on the 1881 census in Hinckley! So the Hinckley connection is there again.

Niglor

[jeeb]

Niglor look at my reply to your thread re 1841 census.

Jeremy

[niglor]

Hi jeeb,

Thanks for that- but I cannot see my gt gt gt grandmothers name on the info you gave me. She was born 1836.

There may be a connection somewhere but where I cannot see it at the moment!

Niglor

[jeeb]

Hi Niglor,
William aged 40 in 1841 is most likely to be the William who married Mary in 1833 you asked someone to find. His son william is 7. There is no other child or wife with him. In 1851 this William is living with his Grandmother Clarke & brother John. In 1841 brother John is with the Clarke family and a suitable candidate for Mary Ann is also on 1841 census. In 1851 she is aged 11 and a lodger.
It would seem likely that William, John & Mary Ann are siblings and they are children of William & Mary. The absense of Mary snr in 1841 suggests she is dead and this is why the 2 youngest children are with relatives in 1841 and all 3 are with relatives in 1851.

Jeremy

[jeeb]

Hi Niglor,
Further evidence suggests this is not the William who married in 1833 but this one:-

Marriage- William Shipman & Ann Clarke 23 May 1831 Hinckley

2 possible deaths are listed for the mother which would come back to my suggestion above about children being with relatives. There is also a possible death registered at Hinckley for the father in 1847.

Death- Ann Shipman Oct/Dec 1838 Leicester vol 15 page 60
Death- Ann Shipman Jul/Sept 1840 Hinckley vol 15 page 50

Jeremy

[niglor]

Hi Jeeb,

Thanks for explaining it all to me!

I really think you may be right on this.

Be great to clear this up once and for all. I can then fill in the gaps on her side.

Another coincidence is that on the 1881 census Mary (now Mary Ann Cure/Cuer) is married and living at 2,Cork Hole. Rugby Road Hinckley and at 1, Rugby Road,Rugby Yard Hinckley is a William Shipman born 1835 Hinckley and his wife Ann. Her brother??? He like Mary is a FWK !

Look forward to hearing what you think of this.

Lorraine

[georgiep]

Hi Lorraine
William whom you mentioned bn 1835 is in Rugby Rd in 1861, stocking knitter 26, wife Ann 26, John 5, Charles 1 all bn Hinckley.
1851 he's the grandson of Elizabeth Clark bn 1786 along with his bro John 11.
Free BMD have a marr in dec qtr 1854 Hinckley, on the page is Ann Hall.
1901 he's at Shipman's yard, Rugby rd, boot dealer own account aged 67 with Ann & son Andrew 29.
There's a death in Hinckley jun qtr 1916 for Wm aged 82yrs.
(FWK learn something new every day!)

Cheers
Georgie

[niglor]

Hi Georgie,

Thanks again for that!

You've more or less confirmed everything that Jeeb has told me!

I can now definately think that this is my ancestor and her family and will be able to tell my mum the full story. We've been trying to sort this branch out for at least 2 years. I have pages of Shipmans printed off from all over Leicester and I should hopefully be able to put those that belong to me on my ever growing FTM !

I didn't know what FWK meant at first but its alot quicker to type!!

Id like to thank everyone on this thread for your help! I only enroled last week and have found out such alot.

Lorraine

[jeeb]

Hi Lorraine,
These are the facts you should be able to build on to prove you have the right Mary Ann

1) 1841 census puts William Shipman age 7 with William 40 & Richard 45. (Brothers?)
2) On some later Censuses Richard Shipman & Hannah Cooper (nee Shipman) state Hinckley as place of birth.
3) William Shipman marries ann Clarke at Hinckley in 1831. There is a probable death for Ann 1840
4) 1841 census has John Shipman age 1 with Clarke family. Elizabeth Clarke is the grandmother in 1851 of John & William Shipman.
5) John Clarke, stocking maker is in the 1841 household.
6) Mary ann Shipman age 11 is with Hannah Cooper in 1851.
7) 1871 census has John Clarke stocking maker and Hannah Cooper widow living next door to each other in Hinckley.

In a nutshell, you need to look for Richard, William & Hannah Shipman born to same parents 1790 - 1800ish Hinckley area. This will connect the family.

You need to prove that William Shipman married Ann Clarke 1831, had William, John & Mary Ann. Ann died probably 1840 & William snr 1847 both registered Hinckley.

Jeremy

[niglor]

Hi Jeremy,

Thanks for setting everything out for me!

Ive started putting the relevant families onto my tree William, Hannah and Richard. Found William and Richards families etc.

I am now trying to find the parents of William,Hannah and Richard and maybe more siblings? Got a lot of paper work Ive been trawling through regards that.

One interesting thing to me was finding out that Richard has a set of male twins in the family- something which has occurred twice in our family since. My mum had twin boys and her grandmother Florence (Mary Ann's grand-daughter) had twin boys also (they died tho). The twin boys seem to have been born every other generation. We've always thought that the boy twins were from Florence's side of the family. I had to be different tho and had twin girls! So this twin thing is another coincidence.



Thanks once again for all the work you have done for me.

Lorraine

[jeeb]

Hi Lorraine,
Twins do tend to run in families, however I fail to see how a twin boy is any more likely to father twins than any other man but his daughters are more likely to carry the twinning gene.

Incidentally I have a twin brother and my mother was one of twin girls, neither set identical.

Jeremy

[jeeb]

Hi Lorraine,

With regards to 1841 census all ages over 15 were rounded down to the nearest 5 years. So because Richard's two sons William & Thomas are stated as 15 it does not mean they are twins, they are aged between 15 & 19.

Jeremy