chalotte shambrook

[linda mary]

my great grandmother was a romany/gypsy,I think,as on my grandfathers birth certificate(her son) she has a cross as her signature.Her name was Charlotte Shambrook,until she married my g/grandfather,then she became Hills.They were married at Sandon church inSeptember 1865.My G/G Frederick,is buried in the churchyard there,but she is not.I know she was born in Sandon in 1848,but her family upped sticks around1861.I wonder if anyone knows how I go about tracing where she is buried? They seemed to be in and around the Hertfordshire area I think.|help|

[Ann65]

what evidence do you have she was a romany apart from the fact she didnt sign her name?
An awful lot of people couldnt read and write back in the 1860s - compulsory education didnt come in until about 1874 I think it was....

[v.wells]

I have many marriage certs where neither party could write. They were illiterate and not a Romany in site.

[linda mary]

hi ann65..My mother told me about my G/grandmother a long time ago.It was well known in the family.They were travelling around the Herts area doing agricultural work.

[linda mary]

hi v.wells.. see above

[v.wells]

Oh well. That's not what your post originally implied which was you thought they might be. People travelled where there was work and that doesn't make them Romany/gypsies but as you said you now know this to be a fact that they were. Good enough for me.

[jeeb]

Hi Linda,
It seems strange to refer to this lady as a Romany Gypsy. She was born in Sandon, married Frederick Hills there and is on every census between 1871 & 1901 there having numerous children. Frederick dies in 1909 and I cannot see Charlotte dead pre 1915. It seems very odd that a lady who had lived all those years in the same village would up sticks and move away after her husband's death. What is most likely is that she moved in with one of her numerous children and I suspect she is buried near where she died. They were Ag Labs so would not be able to afford large expensive funerals and the cost of returning Charlotte to Sandon might have been too great. On the other hand if I were you I would search the death records later than 1915 as the family seemed fairly settled in Sandon, but I could not see her there in 1911.

Jeremy

[jeeb]

Hi Linda,
This looks very likely for Charlotte's death registration:-

Charlotte Hills age 76 Apr/Jun 1925 Hitchen (Herts) vol 3a page 675


Jeremy

[Ann65]

there were rumours my fathers family were a bit gypsy (as they put it) because they moved around a lot - living in tied cottages and doing agricultural work. Let me think, I can name 11 villages they lived in between 1874-1936 and those are just the ones we know of, there could be more! Plus the family were quite dark - both in skin tone and hair. Turned out there isnt the slightest sniff of any romanies in this family anywhere and Ive traced it back to 1500. The 3 generations before the one that moved about a lot stayed put in one village.
It turned out to be my mothers family that had the real romany connections.

[Red Kite]

there were rumours my fathers family were a bit gypsy (as they put it) because they moved around a lot

Yes, I think the term has often been used metaphorically of someone who doesn't settle in one place for long (as in "He was a bit of a gypsy") and people have not meant it literally at the time. But it's easy to see how it can come to be taken literally with the passage of time.

[Ann65]

mmm yes absolutely, and Ive just thought of another place to add to the 11 I already had. Funnily enough there are only two more places - where he was born and where he died. But the family as it were lived between 1874-1936 (when his wife died) in at least 12 places (not 11). Ive just got in from work, and have other bits and pieces to do, but later on Ill try and see what I can glean from the census's etc on this one. I can see already that it seems a pretty straightforward ag-lab family, but you never know so I will delve further just in case. BBL

[Ann65]

Ok, had a good look around and heres the results:

Charlotte Shambrook was d/o Henry Shambrook & Elizabeth Trigg. This pair were married at Baldock Hrts 05.06.1827.

They had:

Daniel c.27.12.1828 Baldock, he later married Elizabeth Pegram Sept Qtr 1q848 Royston Hrts 6 823. This Daniel appears to have died in 1852 Hitchin Hrts - both of these from GRO Index.

Daniel and Elizabeth had: Dorcas c.31.03.1850 Sandon.

there was also (from the IGI)

Phoebe c.27.03.1829 Baldock
James c.18.08.1833 Sandon
Mary Ann c. 28.12.1834 Sandon
George c.24.09.1837 Sandon
Laura c.12.07.1849 Sandon
Matilda c.14/16? 1843 Sandon
Latitia c.02.11.1845 Sandon
Charlotte c.10.07.1849 Sandon

Henry Shambrook was s/o David Shambrook & Anne Edwards they married 30.05.1790 Little Berkhamstead, Herts.

They Had:

John c.16.02.1794 Wallington
Elizabeth c.25.06.1796 Wallington
Phoebe c.01.11.1801 Wallington
Henry c.20.05.1804 Wallington
James c.11.09.1808 Wallington
Thomas c.16.02.1811 Wallington

Census:
Henry Shambrook lived at Ranters Row, Sandon from 1841-1861 and was listed as Ag Lab each time. In 1871 he is an inmate at the Union Workhouse, aged 69, an Ag Lab born Wallington. It appears he died in 1879 Dec Qtr aged 76, 3a 207. He is listed as married so I had a look for his wife, Elizabeth Shambrook is in Sandon, living with her brother. Remember her maiden name was Trigg:

Ranters Row, Sandon, Hrts 1871

Elizabeth Shambrook 66 married, born Baldock
Daniel Trigg 79 Brother Wid, annuitant Baldock.

An Elizabeth Shambrook b.cir 1805 died 1874 Royston Dist, Hrts Sept Qtr 3a


No sign of Romanies thus far Im afraid.

[Ann65]

An Elizabeth Shambrook b.cir 1805 died 1874 Royston Dist, Hrts Sept Qtr 3a

sorry missed part of the GRO Index ref: 3a 168