Henry VIII

[Jan65]

I've just bought Henry VIII's will from The National Archives Documents Online site and am having great fun trying to transcribe it! (Please don't anyone give me a transcription - and I know there'll be an official one somewhere.) Just thought I'd let you all know! Thought this board looked a bit empty!

Janice

[Jan1954]

Oh, good luck Janice - I hope that you have fun! :D

You may find this palaeography tutorial (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/palaeography/) from The National Archives of use when the going gets tough. ;)

[Jan65]

You may find this palaeography tutorial (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/palaeography/) from The National Archives of use when the going gets tough. ;)


Thank you Jan - I've used this site before, it's brilliant and has given me lots of tips and advice. I am having fun! I don't think it's Henry's own handwriting, as it doesn't look to be the same writing as a love letter that he wrote to Ann Boleyn that is shown in one of my history books (and yes I've also transcribed that, too!) But hey ho. At the moment I'm ploughing through all the usual godly jargon, about his "sowle" and "holy company of Heaven" etc but am hoping to come to a bit more spicy stuff soon! I'm only on page 3 ...

Oh the elation when I manage to get an elusive word! The joy! Even my 10 year old daughter has become addicted, and she's even been able to figure out some words that I couldn't!

Many happy hours ahead of us both I think!

Janice

[Jan65]

Do please let us know all the 'juicy' bits.|biggrin|

You'll all be the first to know, mainly because I won't be able to keep it to myself! It's lovely to talk to people who don't think I'm barmy!

[Ladkyis]

What a marvellous way of teaching your eyes to read old writing. I might just have a go at that - um, when I get another hour in the day.
That's really clever

[MythicalMarian]

I don't think it's Henry's own handwriting, as it doesn't look to be the same writing as a love letter that he wrote to Ann Boleyn that is shown in one of my history books (and yes I've also transcribed that, too!)
Janice

Janice - I think I can state categorically that the King of England would not do anything so mundane as write out his own will :D

But do keep us posted on your progress. At least you will be able to check your transcription. I seem to remember a site somewhere that gives a copy of a letter of Mary Queen of Scots for such a purpose.

Don't worry - it's a hard slog but you'll soon be an expert and we'll all be asking for your advice.

[Jan65]

Janice - I think I can state categorically that the King of England would not do anything so mundane as write out his own will :D


Ha! Yes, of course you're quite right. Too much to hope for that he might have written it himself. I've just finished page three (there are still some words I can't get though), and it looks like there are 27 pages in total. Gulp. The poor old clerk/scribe/whoever, he must have had RSI by the time he'd finished! Wonder if he sued?

[Jan1954]

The poor old clerk/scribe/whoever, he must have had RSI by the time he'd finished! Wonder if he sued?Probably valued his head too much..... ;)

Good luck with the rest!

[Jan65]

Probably valued his head too much..... ;)

No doubt! My daughter and I have just finished page 6. Still an awful lot of repetition (and still a few unknown words), but at least he's now talking of an "...honourable tombe for our bones to rest in...", where "... the bones and body of our true and loving wife Quene Jane be putt also..." which is rather nice to see.

He also instructed that "... the aultars of King Henry the vjth and also of King Edward the fourth our great uncle and granntfather be made more princely ..." which is also a good snippet.

Watch this space for more bits n bobs as I discover them!

[Titanicfan]

Well done, Janice - keep up the good work! As a massive fan of the Tudors - particularly Elizabeth - I can't wait to read more of your transcript!

I'm having enough difficulty just trying to transcribe my ancestor's will at the moment because it's the first will I've seen and I'm not used to the writing. |oopsredfa

[Jan65]

As a massive fan of the Tudors - particularly Elizabeth - I can't wait to read more of your transcript!

I love Elizabeth too. I did search for her will on TNA Documents Online but couldn't find it. Perhaps I wasn't putting the right search information in.


I'm having enough difficulty just trying to transcribe my ancestor's will at the moment because it's the first will I've seen and I'm not used to the writing. |oopsredfa

Have you had a look at the palaeography tutorial link that Jan gave in a previous post on this thread? It's really good and might help you. It's helped me, and in any case it's fascinating. Good luck, you'll feel really good when you've managed to transcribe it!

Janice

[Jan65]

A few snippets for those interested:

"... we may the same atteyn everlasting lief after our departure out of this transitory lief which we do both hope and clayme by Christs passion and woord And as for my body which when the soul is departed shall therever remayn but as a cadaver and so return to the vile mater it was made of were it not for the power and dignitye which god hath called us unto ..."

"... will and ordeyn that our body be buryed and interred in the Quier of our college of windsor midway between the seatts(?) and the high aultarr..."

"... And we will and charge our executours that they dispose and gyve in alms to the moost poore and nedy people that may be found common beggars as much as may be avoided in as short space as possibly they may after our departure out of this transitory lief oon thousand marks of laufull money ..."

Next comes details of the succession, with masses of repetition but, if I've understood it correctly, basically leaving the crown to his son Prince Edward, followed by any children he may have with his current wife Katherine (Parr) or any subsequent marriage, then his daughter Mary, then her legitimate children, then his daughter Elizabeth, then her legitimate children, and failing all that, to the children of his niece, Frances (Brandon) and then to the children of his other niece Eleanor, both, I believe, the children of his sister Mary.

And that's as far as I've got! 10 pages, only 17 to go. Goodness knows what else he says, but it seems to take at least half a page each time to say the simplest things!

Edit - I'm sure I'll have got some words wrong, so please forgive my errors!

[Jan1954]

Hi Janice,

I don't know where you are in the UK but, as I was walking down the Euston Road in London yesterday, I noticed that the British Library has an exhibition on Henry VIII running until September.

Just wondered if you would be interested.....

[Jan65]

Hi Janice,
I don't know where you are in the UK but, as I was walking down the Euston Road in London yesterday, I noticed that the British Library has an exhibition on Henry VIII running until September.
Just wondered if you would be interested.....

Hi Jan

I would have loved to see that exhibition but unfortunately I'm in the North East of England with little or no chance of going to London unfortunately. Thank you for the information, though, much appreciated. I'm still battling on with the transcription. I have just finished the part where he names all his executors. This was quite difficult, as names can be so difficult to decipher. I think I've got them all though - after I'd done the best I could, I found a website which listed them, and was pleased to see that most of my attempts had been right, and using the official list was then able to correct a couple of mistakes and fill in a few missing words, which was very satisfying!

Janice

[Jan65]

Here are a few more sections of my translation, for anyone who is interested. Any errors are purely my own - I haven't yet looked at any official transcription! Where I can't read a word or have a reasonable stab at it, I've put question marks. Spellings are as they seem to be, to me, in the handwriting. With reference to the name Edmund Perkhin, I'm not sure about this name, this is what it looks like to me but may well be wrong. Here goes:

"... Willing further by this our last will and testament that Sir Edmund Perkhin our trusty servannt and ??? ?????? of our house shall be Treasorer and have the receipt and laying out of all such treaszer and money as shalbe defrayed by our executors for the pformannce of this o[u]r last will straictly chardging and commanding the sayd Sir Edmund that he pay no great somme of money but he have first the hande of our said executours or of the moost part of them for his discharge touching the same..."

Speaking about his named executors: "... they will annswer before god and as we putt our singular trust and confidence in them that they cause all our due debts that can be reasonably shewed and proved before them to be timely contented and payed as sone as they conveniently can or may after o[u]r deseas without longer delaye ... And that they do execute these points first that is to say the paymient of our debts w[i]t[h] redres of quinries (queries?) if any such can be duely proved though to as they be unknown before any other part of this our Will and testament our buryall expenses and funeralls only excepted..."

Talking about his son "...wish further according to the laws of Almighty God and to the fatherly love which we beare to our sonne Prince Edward and to this our Realm we declare him according to iustice equite and conscience to be our laufull heyre and do gyve and bequeith unto him the Succession of our Realmes of England and Ireland w[i]t[h] our title of Frannce and all our dominions both on thiss ile the sees and beyond (a convenient portion for our will and testament to be rezerved)... Also we give unto him all our plate stuff of household Artillary Ordenannce Munitions ships Cabotts and all other things and implementz to them belonging and money also and jewelz saving such portions as shall satisfye this our last will and testament ..."

I find it a bit difficult to extract the text because there is hardly any punctuation (which I understand was normal) and it makes long tracts of text difficult to follow, which is why I think smaller snippets are more interesting to post and easier to read in short bursts rather than the whole thing. Hope someone other than me is finding this interesting!

[pottoka]

Still an awful lot of repetition (and still a few unknown words), but at least he's now talking of an "...honourable tombe for our bones to rest in...", where "... the bones and body of our true and loving wife Quene Jane be putt also..." which is rather nice to see.


I think Jane was the "lucky" one: she died before he could get tired of her! And, of course, having provided him with a male heir, he had to believe that she was the best wife he could have had.

What about poor Katherine Parr who had to nurse him and put up with his smelly leg?

[MythicalMarian]

He also instructed that "... the aultars of King Henry the vjth and also of King Edward the fourth our great uncle and granntfather be made more princely ..." which is also a good snippet.


Oh, the hypocrisy of the man! I can't bear it - I really can't. But of course, he had to latch onto poor Ned 4 as the thread the damned Tudors had to the throne - i.e. through Liz of York, Ned's daughter. Funny - no mention of poor Richard III. Just don't get me started.....

I've been fascinated reading through this thread, Janice. Soapboxes apart, you are doing sterling work transcribing all this.

What's next on your agenda? :D

[MythicalMarian]

Another supporter of Richard, Marian?

I'm something of an apologist myself. A very capable administrator, something of a pragmatist, maybe, but his actions were only those of a typical monarch of his time.
As part of Elizabeth's propaganda machine, Shakespeare did him no end of harm.

No arguments here, Fin - I would defend him till the cows come home. In fact in the entire Roses business I am a thorough Yorkist. :)

[Jan65]

Just shows you how naive and ignorant I am - I just thought it was a nice thing for him to request!