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Spangle
06-05-2009, 12:43 AM
One of my more recent ancestors was a pianist who was famous in classical music circles. She was my Nan's cousin and died in London, where she was born, in 1996, as far as we know without issue. A collection of her documents is held at the Callaway Centre, Australia. These were donated by her husband, a Dr Harry Waters. Why they are in Oz is a mystery as my side of the family have no known connection to the country so I have emailed the Callaway to find out and am awaiting their reply.

Dr Waters was, as far as Google tells me, a GP with a surgery at Castelnau in Barnes, SW13 - this is also the address we have for his wife, Irene, who performed under her maiden name of Kohler (found via A****'s phone directory registers). The Google results for Dr Waters at the Castelnau address appear to be quite old and a search of that address indicates that it has been sold at least once in the past 10 years and that the property may now be owned by a design comapny. Given that Irene Kohler was born in 1909 it seems reasonable to assume that her husband, Dr Waters, has also passed away, hence I feel that I can mention his name on this site.

I would like to find out more about Dr Waters - perhaps he had family he knew my ancestor. I dont know anything much about her apart from her professional life as it seems she had little to do with her extended family.

My cousin ("B"), a professor of music and duettist who is well known in musical circles herself, met Irene by chance a couple of times when she was starting out in her career and Irene judged competitions. My parents divorced many years ago and so I didn't know of "B" until I began researching my family and found that she was doing the same via a genealogy website. Sadly, "B" is seriously ill now and so to cheer her up a little it would give me even more pleasure to discover more about Dr Waters and thus our Great Aunt Irene - but where would I start?

If anyone has any idea as to whom I could contact to find out more of Dr Waters I would be incredibly grateful.

Spangle
06-05-2009, 1:06 AM
Sorry - my post should read ".. perhaps he had family WHO knew my ancestor".

v.wells
06-05-2009, 1:38 AM
Spangle - perhaps if you ordered his death certificate it would have informant name that would be his relative unless he died before she did. There are several Harry Waters born between 1903 and 1907 in London area. Did he have a middle name? You might have to hunt for his parents and start another mini tree and trace his siblings/himself towards current times.

The only other thing I can think of is to contact the UK medical bureau or whatever its called and see if they have anything listed in his records. He would have had to register an application to practice. Also when you find the death for him, maybe there is a Will to look up.

AdeleE
06-05-2009, 2:36 AM
There's this bit about a Dr. Harry Waters in a Freemason's publication:

http://www.freemasonrytoday.net/03/p02.php?printnice=yes

72 Years a Mason!

On 8 December 1997 Fulham Lodge 2512 celebrated W. Bro Harry Waters' staggering 70th year as a lodge member, clocking up over 72 years as a mason (he was initiated in July 1925 into Commercial Lodge, 245 in Dublin). Becoming WM of Fulham Lodge in 1938, he was awarded London Grand Rank in 1950 and hasn't missed a summons for over 20 years. A pianist and clarinet player, Bro Harry continues as the lodge organist. He is also a member of the Magic Circle, a joker and raconteur and a doctor to the Amateur Boxing Association. Bro Harry served his country in South Africa, India and Burma during the war and is still a qualified doctor. Asked whether or not the craft had changed much in the last 72 years, the veteran mason was of the opinion that it hadn't really changed at all. W. Bro Dr Harry Waters PM, LGR was born on 16 August 1903.

Adele

AdeleE
06-05-2009, 2:45 AM
This could be a death certificate worth ordering:

Name: Harry Waters
Birth Date: 16 Aug 1903
Death Registration Month/Year: Apr 2002
Age at death (estimated): 98
Registration district: Hammersmith and Fulham
Register number: HF2E
District and Subdistrict: 2601E
Entry number: 193

Adele

AdeleE
06-05-2009, 3:00 AM
Another sighting of a Harry Waters on a UK incoming passenger list:

Name: Harry Waters
Birth Date: abt 1903
Arrival Date: 6 Aug 1928
Port of Arrival: Southampton, England
Embarked: Madeira
Ship Name: Kenilworth Castle
Shipping Line: The Union Castle Mail Steamship Company

His occupation is "Medical", his proposed address in the UK is 28 Castletown, London SW 13.

He is travelling with 21 year old Julia Waters.

A first wife?

Adele

v.wells
06-05-2009, 2:37 PM
I saw Harry on the incoming but as I don't have a world sub couldn't get a look at the information. Glad you could AdeleE :D I also thought the 1903 death registration the best bet but there was mention of Barnes, which I think is in Surrey and I hestitated as I am not totally familiar with the London environs.:o

Chris Doran
06-05-2009, 3:24 PM
He was at Castelnau in the 1939 Yellow Pages, but you probably knew that anyway. Not there in Kelly's 1972 London Directory.

There is loads of advice on finding doctors at a site entitled "Was Your Ancestor a Doctor?" -- Put that into Google.

Spangle
06-05-2009, 9:45 PM
Crikey you are all gems! Thank you!

I would imagine that Julia was indeed Dr Waters' first wife as Irene was 41 when they married in 1950. The information provided and death cert recommended certainly appear to be of the right man and the help you have given is invaluable.

He seems to have been quite a character! From what I have learned through contact with some of Irene's pupils (she was a respected teacher of piano as well as concert pianist), she was quite a formidable lady and a strict teacher so it tickled me to learn of Dr Waters being a joker and member of the magic circle!

A lovely gentleman from the Callaway has given me more information on Irene and Dr Waters. He went to the effort of pulling out all the documents held on Irene and doing some research himself and discovered that Dr Waters was "a Dublin man" and qualified at Trinity, so I shall start looking for the name Waters in Ireland and see if I can work forwards from there. Perhaps indeed he and his first wife had children... you never know.

One thing though... most of the men in my family have turned down the offer to join the Masons when offered so the abbreviations are a mystery to me! Can someone please explain them?

I had also put a question on the Australia thread, believing wrongly that Harry Waters must have had links there for Irene's letters etc to end up in the Callaway. With reference to that (sorry Mark for double-posting!), this is what the Callaway told me:

"The Callaway Centre Archive is part of the legacy of the late Sir Frank Callaway, former head of the School of Music at the University of Western Australia (UWA) and a leading international figure in music education. He was at one time President of the International Society of Music Education, and the UNESCO International Music Council.



I have been through 4 boxes of material in the collection, including programmes, scrapbooks and correspondence, and it was only at the end of my search that I discovered a clue that might answer your question. In a letter from Sir Frank to Ms Kohler (21/7/1992) he thanks her for her contribution to his “Foundation”, the result of which was the beginnings of his “Resource Centre”. In time, the resource centre became CIRCME (Centre for International Research in Music Education) based at UWA, which became the Callaway Centre, a prime focus of which is the Callaway Centre Archives where Ms Kohler’s archives now reside. (He also thanks her for hospitality extended to he and his wife in a trip to London at the time)



Unfortunately I don’t have access to original corporate documents that might include correspondence on the deposit of the material here, but Sir Frank was a vibrant figure internationally, and his passion for music education would have brought he and Ms Kohler into contact, I am sure. As you know she was as valued for her music teaching practices as much as her concert performances. Sir Frank secured another significant collection of material from a UK academic around the same time. This demonstrates his passion for archival records as well as his international links. I can only assume that it is for these reasons that the Irene Kohler collection has made its home in Western Australia.



Other interesting facts I discovered en route include:

She performed in Australia possibly 3 times – there are references to her performing here in Perth that I found in my brief search - 1956 at the Festival of Perth (hosted by the University of Western Australia); 1978 at the Octagon Theatre (situated on the University’s campus) and I can find evidence of plans to visit Sydney around 1985. Early in her career Ms Kohler had undertaken visits to a variety of countries including Africa and Australia.



Marriage to Dr Harry Waters – 21?/3/1950 as reported in the Barnes and Mortlake Herald, 25/3/1950. Lived at Dr Waters home, 28, Castelnau, Barnes, London.

According to the newspaper report of their marriage, Dr Waters was a Dublin man who had qualified at Trinity College. As of the marriage in 1950, he had practiced at Castelnau for 20 years, including army service in India and Burma for 4 years. There is no suggestion of an Australia connection."


Again, thank you. |bowdown|

AdeleE
07-05-2009, 1:11 AM
This is wonderful news! I imagine there would have been an obituary. Perhaps with a mention of any children?

Adele

AdeleE
07-05-2009, 1:36 AM
On 8 December 1997 Fulham Lodge 2512 celebrated W. Bro Harry Waters' staggering 70th year as a lodge member, clocking up over 72 years as a mason (he was initiated in July 1925 into Commercial Lodge, 245 in Dublin). Becoming WM of Fulham Lodge in 1938, he was awarded London Grand Rank in 1950 and hasn't missed a summons for over 20 years. A pianist and clarinet player, Bro Harry continues as the lodge organist. He is also a member of the Magic Circle, a joker and raconteur and a doctor to the Amateur Boxing Association. Bro Harry served his country in South Africa, India and Burma during the war and is still a qualified doctor. Asked whether or not the craft had changed much in the last 72 years, the veteran mason was of the opinion that it hadn't really changed at all. W. Bro Dr Harry Waters PM, LGR was born on 16 August 1903.

|biggrin|

Adele

Spangle
07-05-2009, 8:35 PM
Thank you - thats a handy list to refer to. :)

Lenore
10-07-2009, 2:33 PM
I note that the National Library of Australia also has Irene Kohler material in their collection.

http://protocat.nla.gov.au/Record/3529053

Best wishes,

Lenore

Spangle
14-07-2009, 9:33 PM
Thank you Lenore, they have indeed. A wonderfully kind man there went through all the boxes of material and sent me copies of all that which he thought might be interesting to me.

Problem is, the life history of Irene which they hold conflicted with some stuff I KNOW to be true! :confused: For example, it says that Irene took her mothers maiden name of Kohler when her father left the family during her childhood, but it was definately her Dad, my G-Grandad's brother, who was a Kohler, not her mum.

However, the info is superb and I was sent a photo of Irene too, the picture of mid 1990's elegance.

Emsworth
15-10-2010, 12:15 PM
Hello. Are you still seeking info about Harry Waters and Irene Kohler? Dr. Waters was my GP, my father's GP and a close family friend. I met Irene several times and visited their house in Castelneau Road, Barnes.

I think the Australian connection was that Harry's children from his first marriage live there. Harry often went out to Australia to visit relatives.

geneius
15-10-2010, 9:26 PM
Have you looked at books.google.co.uk where ther is a wealth of information on Irene KOHLER pianist, her name is included in Sir john Barbirolli's biography!

Lucy_A
12-01-2016, 7:53 PM
One of my more recent ancestors was a pianist who was famous in classical music circles. She was my Nan's cousin and died in London, where she was born, in 1996, as far as we know without issue. A collection of her documents is held at the Callaway Centre, Australia. These were donated by her husband, a Dr Harry Waters. Why they are in Oz is a mystery as my side of the family have no known connection to the country so I have emailed the Callaway to find out and am awaiting their reply.

Dr Waters was, as far as Google tells me, a GP with a surgery at Castelnau in Barnes, SW13 - this is also the address we have for his wife, Irene, who performed under her maiden name of Kohler (found via A****'s phone directory registers). The Google results for Dr Waters at the Castelnau address appear to be quite old and a search of that address indicates that it has been sold at least once in the past 10 years and that the property may now be owned by a design comapny. Given that Irene Kohler was born in 1909 it seems reasonable to assume that her husband, Dr Waters, has also passed away, hence I feel that I can mention his name on this site.

I would like to find out more about Dr Waters - perhaps he had family he knew my ancestor. I dont know anything much about her apart from her professional life as it seems she had little to do with her extended family.

My cousin ("B"), a professor of music and duettist who is well known in musical circles herself, met Irene by chance a couple of times when she was starting out in her career and Irene judged competitions. My parents divorced many years ago and so I didn't know of "B" until I began researching my family and found that she was doing the same via a genealogy website. Sadly, "B" is seriously ill now and so to cheer her up a little it would give me even more pleasure to discover more about Dr Waters and thus our Great Aunt Irene - but where would I start?

If anyone has any idea as to whom I could contact to find out more of Dr Waters I would be incredibly grateful.

Hi, I see that this post is pretty old, but Harry Waters was my great grandfather and I'd be happy to correspond with you if you're still looking for information. He had two children Nathalie (my grandmother from his first wife) and Geoffrey. I remember him fondly before he died when I was 20 years old. Best wishes and let me know, Lucy

Lucy_A
12-01-2016, 7:56 PM
Hi, I see that this post is pretty old, but Harry Waters was my great grandfather and I'd be happy to correspond with you if you're still looking for information. He had two children Nathalie (my grandmother from his first wife) and Geoffrey. I remember him fondly before he died when I was 20 years old. Best wishes and let me know, Lucy

Brian E Smith
21-06-2016, 4:01 AM
Harry Waters' father Kalman was uncle to my grandfather - making Harry my 1st cousin twice removed if
i got the maths right! Kalman signed my grandparents marriage certificate in Dublin circa 1905. i would like to make contact with any relatives of Harry who may be following this thread. Either post to this thread or send email to me (Brian Smith) at [email protected].

Brian E Smith
21-06-2016, 4:04 AM
Dear Lucy,
I would love to hear from you to pursue our common ancestry!
Brian
[email protected]

Brian E Smith
14-07-2016, 8:42 PM
I have only recently come across this thread about Harry Waters. I'm not sure if you know this but his parents were Kalman and Kate Goldwater. Kalman Goldwater immigrated to Ireland from Lithuania circa 1902. His wife Kate, who was 10 years younger than him was born in England. Kalman Goldwater was my grandfather's uncle, which is what has me interested in researching the family. If you're interested in continuing the discussion please post on the thread or email me directly at [email protected].


One of my more recent ancestors was a pianist who was famous in classical music circles. She was my Nan's cousin and died in London, where she was born, in 1996, as far as we know without issue. A collection of her documents is held at the Callaway Centre, Australia. These were donated by her husband, a Dr Harry Waters. Why they are in Oz is a mystery as my side of the family have no known connection to the country so I have emailed the Callaway to find out and am awaiting their reply.

Dr Waters was, as far as Google tells me, a GP with a surgery at Castelnau in Barnes, SW13 - this is also the address we have for his wife, Irene, who performed under her maiden name of Kohler (found via A****'s phone directory registers). The Google results for Dr Waters at the Castelnau address appear to be quite old and a search of that address indicates that it has been sold at least once in the past 10 years and that the property may now be owned by a design comapny. Given that Irene Kohler was born in 1909 it seems reasonable to assume that her husband, Dr Waters, has also passed away, hence I feel that I can mention his name on this site.

I would like to find out more about Dr Waters - perhaps he had family he knew my ancestor. I dont know anything much about her apart from her professional life as it seems she had little to do with her extended family.

My cousin ("B"), a professor of music and duettist who is well known in musical circles herself, met Irene by chance a couple of times when she was starting out in her career and Irene judged competitions. My parents divorced many years ago and so I didn't know of "B" until I began researching my family and found that she was doing the same via a genealogy website. Sadly, "B" is seriously ill now and so to cheer her up a little it would give me even more pleasure to discover more about Dr Waters and thus our Great Aunt Irene - but where would I start?

If anyone has any idea as to whom I could contact to find out more of Dr Waters I would be incredibly grateful.