1861 Lookup - Mary Jane Nelson

[revdfg]

In my tree I have Mary Jane Nelson, born Whissonsett, Lincs about 1854

I have her living at:
24 South Street, Cross Gate, Durham in 1881, age 26, married to Robert Robinson, garndener.
Hull Road, York in 1891, age 36, married to Robert Robinson, market gardener
The Gablers, Hull Road, York, in 1901, age 46 and married to Robert Robinson, market gardener.

Can anyone find her on either the 1861 or 1871 census? Probably in Yorkshire, though she might still have been in Whissonsett in 1861.

Thank you.

[Geoff Everitt]

Whissonsett is in Norfolk, about 25 miles from the nearest point of Lincolnshire.

[revdfg]

Thanks, Geoff. My mistake. I've been looking for Lincolnshire family today.
Lovely name Wissonsett! Wonder what its derivation is.

[Pam Downes]

Hi David,

I've had a lot of interruptions today so it's taken me hours to get this far. Just hope you read the Lincs Forum daily - if not I might have to chase you across to Norfolk!

As I'm a lovely Lincolnshire lass (and Whissonsett isn't that big a place:D ) I did have a look on the 1861 for you.

RG9/1244 f121 p16
London Street Whissonsett
William NELSON, h, m, 30, carpenter, Norfolk Whissonsett
Mary Ann, w, m, 19, Norfolk Whissonsett
Anna Maria, d , 4m,Norfolk Whissonsett

RG9/1244 f121 p16
London Street Whissonsett
John NELSON, h,m,68 (66?), carpenter employing 3 men and a boy, Norfolk Colkirk
Sarah, w, m ,58, Harpley
?????, granddaughter, 6, Norfolk Sth Wooton
I thought at first the ?? was Almar, but I've never of that name and then I realised that 'A's weren't written like that in 1860. I'm going to post a query to the Norfolk board to ask for a second opinion.

There's also an Edward aged 32 a carpenter with his wife and family, so I think the sons followed the father into the business.

Pam Downes

[Procat]

Hi David,

In 1871 she was living in Ruby Street, Saltburn by the Sea, Yorkshire with a John Dickenson and family and she was a servant.

RG 10/4582 Folio 70 Page 39 Schedule 152

Would you like the image emailed?

[Geoffers]

Lovely name Wissonsett! Wonder what its derivation is.
The sett part is presumably from the Old English for a dweller (as in Dorset and Somerset). Whisson - may have some local meaning of which I'm not aware; but I wonder (as a guess) if it might come from a variant of the word we now know as withy. There was a privately published history of Whissonsett which you may be able to find in Norwich, this may give a more definitive answer based on fact.

Geoffers

[revdfg]

Thank you Doug. No need to send image - I've checked her out on Ancestry 1871 Census. Don't know how I missed her - I guess I was looking for Mary Jane and she appears as Mary J.

Her location makes sense: Ruby Street, Saltburn is not far from Her Mum and Dad and some other family who are at West Street, Marske by the sea.

What I'd really like now is to find her in the 1861 Census aged 6 and with her parents.

Thanks for taking the trouble to look her up.

[Pam Downes]

RG9/1244 f121 p16
London Street Whissonsett
John NELSON, h,m,68 (66?), carpenter employing 3 men and a boy, Norfolk Colkirk
Sarah, w, m ,58, Harpley
?????, granddaughter, 6, Norfolk Sth Wooton
I thought at first the ?? was Almar, but I've never of that name and then I realised that 'A's weren't written like that in 1860. I'm going to post a query to the Norfolk board to ask for a second opinion.


Hi David,

Geoffers has confirmed that the granddaughter's name is Almar. But......
as the age ties in with Mary Jane I think that she has to be a strong contender until proved otherwise. (As in - have you got Mary Jane's birth certificate? Although that still wouldn't stop the grandparents telling the enumerator that their granddaughter was called any name they wanted to say.)
My reasons being that (a) unusual name, so by the time she's 16 Mary Jane wants a more 'normal' name and decides on M J, and (b) people often quote the first place they can remember living as the place where they were born.
What are the names (and ages) of Mary Jane's parents and the other family members living with them in 1871? And also what is her father's occupation? (You never know when one little detail will spark inspiration.)

Pam Downes

[revdfg]

Pam. You asked for a little more detail about M J's family. Here goes.

Mary Jane Nelsons family in 1871:
West Street, Marske by the Sea, Yorkshire
Robert Nelson 46 Whissonsett, Norfolk, Head, Agricultural Labourer
Martha Nelson 42 Weasenham, Norfolk, Wife
Robert Nelson 14 Whissonsett, Norfolk, Son, Agricultural Labourer
Susan Nelson 13 Whissonsett, Norfolk, Daughter, Scholar
William Nelson 11 Skelton, Yorkshire, Son, Daughter, Scholar
John Nelson 8 Marske, Yorkshire, Son, Daughter, Scholar
Edward Nelson 6 Marske, Yorkshire, Son, Daughter, Scholar
Martha Nelson 1 Marske, Yorkshire, Daughter

And from Procats kind reply Mary Jane is close by in Saltburn.
"In 1871 she was living in Ruby Street, Saltburn by the Sea, Yorkshire with a John Dickenson and family and she was a servant.
RG 10/4582 Folio 70 Page 39 Schedule 152"

She is age 16 in 1871 so IF she belongs to this family it looks as though Robert and Martha had three children in Whisonsett and moved from Norfolk to Yorkshire before William was born i.e before 1960 (I have found William's Christening at Skelton by Guisborough 6 Jan 1860). So it looks pretty certain that this family would be in Yorkshire for the 1861 census.

But what makes me feel that Mary Jane belongs to this family? The answer lies in the 1881 census. Mary J is now married to Robert Robinson and living at Cross Gate Durham.

I reckon that the presence of Mary's two "brothers" in the household substantiates my claim (YES I admit that "brother in law" COULD mean Robert Robinsons sisters husband!! But I can account for Roberts sisters - none of them married a Nelson!).

I am pretty sure the 1861 census for Yorkshire would show Mary Jane aged 6 with Robert and Martha. But can I wait for the new 1837Online facility to reach the Yorkshire Census??

Or is Mary Jane "Almar" and did she reach Yorkshire later?

Many thanks to Pam, Geoffers and others for helping me to clear my head on this one. Perhaps I need to move over to the Yorkshire board to take it further - and later the Norfolk board to chase up Robert and Martha Nelson.

I hate jig-saws but this sort of puzzle I like.

[Pam Downes]

Pam. You asked for a little more detail about M J's family. Here goes.

Susan Nelson 13 Whissonsett, Norfolk, Daughter, Scholar
William Nelson 11 Skelton, Yorkshire, Son, Daughter, Scholar
John Nelson 8 Marske, Yorkshire, Son, Daughter, Scholar


Hi David,

I was going to say that I think that based on the age and birthplace of William in the 1871 census, plus the knowledge that Mary had an elder brother who is not with Almar in Whissonsett in 1861, your best bet would be to ask someone on the Yorks list if they could do a look-up in Skelton for the 1861. But having never heard of Skelton thought I'd look it up on the map. Do you know how many Skeltons there are? Three in North Yorkshire and one in the East Riding (as per present boundaries), so if you ask for a look-up do make sure that you ask for the correct one. If no luck there, you will just have to wait quietly in the corner :) until 1837 online produce the goods.
Whatever and whenever, don't forget to let us know the answer.

Pam Downes

[revdfg]

Thanks for your encouragement, Pam.
I'll move over to Yorkshire board.
Best wishes
David

[Geoffers]

your best bet would be to ask someone on the Yorks list if they could do a look-up in Skelton for the 1861. But having never heard of Skelton thought I'd look it up on the map. Do you know how many Skeltons there are? Three in North Yorkshire and one in the East Riding (as per present boundaries),
Passing thought, but looking at John Nelson's birthplace, it might be the Skelton that only just to the north of Marske??

Geoffers

[revdfg]

Pam, You asked for me to let you know what happened.
I have the following kind reply from Isomer on the Yorkshire board.

"Hi there.

In 1861 there is the following: -

West Street

Robert Nelson H M 34 Ag Lab Whissonsett, Norfolk
Martha Nelson W M 31 Weasonham, Norfolk
Mary J Nelson D U 6 Whissonsett, Norfolk
Robert J Nelson S U 4 Whissonsett, Norfolk
Susan Nelson D U 3 Whissonsett, Norfolk
William Nelson S U 1 Skelton, Yorkshire

Almost exactly as predicted :-)"

So there we have her, and I now have a picture of her life and movements from 1861 to 1901. My next task is to try to push back my knowledge of her parents origins in Norfolk.

Many thanks for the help that you and others have been.

[Pam Downes]

Hi David,

Pleased to hear that you've found Mary Jane. Saves all the thoughts of 'is she/isn't she Almar under another name' doesn't it?

Meanwhile I have found someone else who's researching Nelsons in Whissonsett.
http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/?list=NORFOLK
select 2002, type in Whissonsett, and it's the second message. Tina's email addy was still valid as of a month ago. There may be more info in the rest of the messages for 2002 - I was just to lazy to check further. :)

Pam Downes

[Geoffers]

There's a list on the following website
http://freespace.virgin.net/isabel.easter/Norfolk/Surnames.htm
of people researching different names in Norfolk. You'll find a few working on Nelson.

As the family is from Norfolk, it may be worth your while posting a message on the Norfolk forum too.

Geoffers