Greenwich Union Infirmary

[hummingbirds6]

I'm trying to find out information on the Union Infirmary in Greenwich,Greenwich east in the county of London back in 1892. My grandfather was born there. Not sure what happened after that for some time within the next 8 years his mom had died and he was in a boys home. It looks like he never lived with his father and sibblings.
SO I was wondering what kind of hospital was it? Was it for poor or very ill people??

[Waitabit]

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/hospitalrecords/details.asp?id=58&page=74

or Google Greenwich Union Infirmary, many sites come up there.

[Peter Goodey]

Have a look at workhouses.org.uk and go to the section on Greenwich.

Back in genealogical times the Poor Law Guardians carried out many "social service" functions including the provision of hospital services and the care of orphans.

Depending on the date, the Union Infirmary might be in effect a public health service hospital.

[hummingbirds6]

THANKS Waitabit & Peter for these ideas. I'll check them out.

[psanford]

My Grandfather was born there in 1880
Alfred Hayhurst and his mother were in Female Lock Hospital and Asylum Westbourne gardens in 1881 was this the same place

[Peter Goodey]

Alfred Hayhurst and his mother were in Female Lock Hospital and Asylum Westbourne gardens in 1881 was this the same place?

No. Westbourne Gardens is in Paddington. Greenwich is in South East London. The Lock Hospital was a charitable institution, not run by a Board of Guardians (ie funded out of taxation). Wikipedia has an article -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Lock_Hospital

[benny1982]

Hi

If their admission and discharge records survive, then you will find them quite informative. They give date of admission, reason for admittance, by whose order, age, occupation and last known address. Often there are seperate registers for births and deaths in the workhouse or infirmary.

Ben

[tumbleweed]

New to the site I have been reading about the Greenwich Infirmary with great interest and I wonder if all yhou valuable experience can help me please? My gggran was there - but under a different name. Most odd, unless she suffered dementia, when I got the death cert it was made in the assumed name with a typed note on the right hand edge stating her real name, widow of etc, as verified by her son. Can't find ggrandad for love nor money - did she put him under an assumed name? Oooh, I'm itching now - how do I go about unravelling it all, any ideas anyone? Thanks in advance.

[Peter Goodey]

We're not nibbling at the bait yet, we're just sniffing cautiously. You'll need to tell us a bit more to get us really hooked.

Where did you get the death certificate from? What do you mean by the right hand edge? Do you mean the margin? That sounds most irregular.

What names were involved?

[tumbleweed]

Hello Peter,

The Death Cert has a box drawn around all the details and columns within. On the right hand edge, outside of the box, the Registrar has typed a lengthy note - In No.481 Col. 2 for "Amelia Moss" read "Mary Ann Amelia Vickers" and in Col 5 for Wife Of _____ Moss, Occupation unknown" read "Widow of Ebenezer Vickers, a boot closer". Corrected on the 15th July 1897 by me H.K. Lewis, Registrar on production of a statutory declaration made by Joseph Henry Vickers and Julia Vickers.
As you say Peter, I was horrified when I first received this certificate, it states Amelia Moss, when I am hoping for Mary Ann Amelia Vickers. To read the note was a bit of a blow - no wonder I've had such trouble trying to find my gg grandparents - where did Ebenezer go? He obviously died before 1897.
Are there many alterations noted like this? It does seem odd.

[tumbleweed]

Oops, have done a message Peter, but forgot to mention that I got the certificate from the GRO.

[Peter Goodey]

I would say it is pretty unusual. It would be interesting to go through the Greenwich Union records, if anything useful has survived.

[tumbleweed]

How do I access the records Peter? Sorry to be a dimwit.

[Peter Goodey]

How do I access the records Peter?

You can either go and look at them in person or engage someone to do it for you or wait until Ancestry have digitised them

[blue eyes]

Whether this is your Ebenezers and Mary marriage banns!

Banns

13 Mar 1859
Parish All Saints Poplar
County Middlesex
Borough Tower Hamlets

Ebenezer Vickers
Mary Ann Amelia Tomkins

[Geoffers]

Can't find ggrandad for love nor money - did she put him under an assumed name? Oooh, I'm itching now - how do I go about unravelling it all, any ideas anyone?


The Death Cert....On the right hand edge, outside of the box, the Registrar has typed a lengthy note - In No.481 Col. 2 for "Amelia Moss" read "Mary Ann Amelia Vickers" and in Col 5 for Wife Of _____ Moss, Occupation unknown" read "Widow of Ebenezer Vickers, a boot closer".

I don't necessarily think any dementia or anything suspicious may necessarily be inferred. Once she had died, your ancestor was the one person who could not answer questions!

So, if Ebenezer died maybe his widow then became someone's housekeeper; took in a lodger, or lodged with another person - perhaps someone called MOSS?

Maybe when she died she was just known as Amelia to those who were present at death - perhaps they assumed she was the wife of a lodger, or person for whom she kept house. Remember at the end of the 19th century people didn't need or have lots of documents which identified them.

The reason might be more complicated than that - but it's a possibility.

What was her recorded cause of death and who was the informant? They might tend to support/refute the above idea.

[tumbleweed]

Mmm, you can see I am still new to genealogy eh? I Never thought of the lack of documents, sorry! You could well be right, as she was alone it could easily be recorded as the householders name. There is an address - she is listed as from 12 Powers Place, Deptford. Cause of death was listed as Chronic Bronchitis, Emphysema and Syncope (whatever that may be). Death certified by Charles G Wallis M.R.C.S and informant W.C.S. Burney, Medical Officer, Union Infirmary. All of this would support your theory. I suppose the romantic in me was leading up a blind alley! Having said that - how do I find a death registration for Ebenezer? He is not listed anywhere. The last entry for any info was the 1861 Census. Nothing for him anywhere since. Can you advise on this one too please? Many thanks

[Peter Goodey]

Syncope (whatever that may be).

Loss of consciousness caused by a sudden drop in blood pressure.

Do please go to your County Library website and bookmark the extremely useful on-line services they subscribe to for your benefit. You'll find that medical dictionaries are included.

http://www.devon.gov.uk/index/cultureheritage/libraries/info/onlinereference.htm

There are many other services of interest to genealogist which I'll leave you to discover.

[Geoffers]

See Peter's reply above


how do I find a death registration for Ebenezer? He is not listed anywhere. The last entry for any info was the 1861 Census. Nothing for him anywhere since. Can you advise on this one too please? Many thanks

The problems are:

Spelling of surname - you do need to be very imaginative in this respect.

He may have had another two forename and his death been recorded under the other forename, so you may need to look for a Joseph Ebenezer, or a William Ebenezer, etc. Don't rely on freebmd, you may have to carry out a quarter-by-quarter search of the full GRO index.

Amelia may not have been widowed. She can claim to have been; relatives may believe her to have been - but perhaps he either ran off, or perhaps was put in an asylum. If he ran off, he could be using any name, if he was in an asylum (or some other institution) then he may be recorded by initials.

[tumbleweed]

Oh! Never dreamed on than line - oooh! Run off indeed - could be I suppose. My word, what a load of renegades! Thankfully it doesn't appear to be in the genes! Well, you certainly have given me many avenues to explore now, thank you so much.

Ooh! and thank you Blue Eyes, yes that is the marriage banns. I shall keep on digging now to fit the pieces together if poss. You have all been so helpful, thanks for your time. I really appreciate it.

[Geoffers]

The suggestions made are just a couple that spring to mind, he could of course have peacefully died and had his surname recorded in some unusual variant spelling yet to be considered (remember that spelling of surnames did not become finally fixed until the start of the 20th century).

As you delve into family history, you find that it involves thinking of possibilities and keeping an open mind about them as you try to prove/disprove a theory.

Some ideas work out, others are annoyingly disproven or remain unconfirmed. As has been shown many times on these forums, some of the things our ancestors got up to would be considered too far fetched to appear on a television soap opera.

One of the great benefits of these forums is in others sharing ideas. So it you get stuck, do ask.