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JoWest
18-02-2005, 9:54 PM
Hi, I am researching my family tree and have traced my ancestors back to Gardenstown (formerly known as Gamrie) in Banffshire, Scotland. My tree is full of West's, Watt's and Wiseman's, and some Wilson's, Sutherland's and Geddes. I would love to hear from anyone who may have links or information on these names in Gardenstown or Banffshire in general. Bit vague and a bit of a long shot I know, but I can give plenty more info to anyone who gets in touch. Thanks alot, Jo.

chambers
06-03-2005, 5:13 AM
I have been researching my family tree of Wiseman's from Gamrie, and have come to a halt for now, any info would be greatly appreciated.

My Great Grandfather was Alexander Wiseman Born 4th July 1861 at Gamrie, and died 16th March 1933. He married Elizabeth Masson Born 18th Jan 1885, had 3 children, Alexander (Grandfather) Born 11th July 1890, Ann Born 1895 and Helen Born 1898.

My Great Great Grandfather John Wiseman Born 29th 1811 at Gamrie, and died 17th April 1885. He married Agnes Gatt from Pennan on 5th May 1833 and had 10 children.

My GGG Grandfather was called William Wiseman born Gamrie 10/10/178?, married Ann Watt, and had 6 children.

And lastly my GGGG Grandfather was called Alexander Wiseman from Gamrie, who married Elspet Watt (sorry no dates).

Don't know if this has been of any help to you, however please get back in touch.
Best Regards,
Graham Wiseman.

JoWest
11-03-2005, 3:36 PM
Hi Graham,
When I compared the names in your tree to those in mine the only familiar one I found was Helen Wiseman. I am only a few months into building my tree so I still have a long way to go and I don't have the parents of my Helen Wiseman or a date of birth yet, just some guess work which tells me she must have been born around 1890, which would fit with your Helen. In my tree she married Gilbert West and had atleast 3 children. Could we have the same Helen Wiseman? Not sure how we can figure this one out but let me know what you think??!! Thanks, Joanna.

chambers
09-07-2005, 5:24 PM
Hi Jo,
Your Helen Wiseman is not the same one as i have in my tree, the one i have was born 1898, and married a Turnbull, they divorced (a rare event in those day's) and remarried a Macrae, who was a brother of Helen's brothers wife, so a Brother and Sister married a Brother and Sister, bit confusing eh!
Sorry could'nt help further, good luck & best wishes on your search.
Regards,
Graham.

ikciv5001
17-03-2006, 9:59 AM
Hi Jo Ann

I believe that you are the Jo Ann that I was told to get in contact with pertaining to the above surnames.

My family is decendants of John West and Susan Robertson in Pennan.

What I would like to know did any of the West families have bye/tee names???

I have been also trying to find out if the West families in Banffshire,Gardentown and Pennan are related and how they are related.

Would you have any idea?????

Vicki

jeffrey.bean
17-03-2006, 4:58 PM
Hi Jo, have you found any referance to a David Watt b. approx.1852 in Scotland. David married Elizabeth Evans in West Derby Lancashire in the 2nd quarter 1879. By 1891 they are living in Blackburn Lan.

Thanks,
Jeff

wilso127
19-09-2006, 1:47 PM
Has anyone here done an ancestral trace for the surname Wiseman, possibly originating in Elginshire in the time of The Wallace, down to the Western Lowlands, and then over to County Antrim as Plantation settlers in the 17th Century? With documents or documentation, I can only get back to Ballywatermoy Townland (near Cullybackey) ca. 1813, when a James Wiseman, married to a Margaret Dunlap, became the father of ARCHIBALD WISEMAN who in turn emigrated to the US, and was in Newburgh, NY after 1836.

BrianPaul
14-04-2008, 3:21 PM
Hello,
My grandmother was a Wiseman from Gamrie. her father was James Wiseman, son of George Wiseman and Margaret Duncan. George was the son of James Wiseman and Elspeth Wiseman. It does go further back, to the earliest ones.
Do you recognise any of the names?
All the best,
Brian

Been
06-05-2008, 10:09 PM
Doing research I came across this Graham,

JOHN WISEMAN (BARBARA, JOHN, GILBERT) (Source: gro image-Scotlandspeople Site.) was born 24 Sep 1811 in Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland, and died 17 Apr 1885 in Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland (Source: gro image-Scotlandspeople Site.). He married AGNES GATT (Source: gro image-Scotlandspeople Site.) 05 May 1838 in Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland (Source: gro image-Scotlandspeople Site.), daughter of WILLIAM GATT and AGNES GATT. She was born 22 Dec 1820 in Pennan Village, Aberdour, Aberdeen, Scotland, and died 12 Dec 1898 in Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland.

More About JOHN WISEMAN:
Occupation: Fisherman

More About AGNES GATT:
Date born 2: 22 Dec 1820

More About JOHN WISEMAN and AGNES GATT:
Marriage: 05 May 1838, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland (Source: gro image-Scotlandspeople Site.)

Children of JOHN WISEMAN and AGNES GATT are:

i. ANN WISEMAN, b. 10 Jul 1839, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland; d. 15 May 1917, Macduff, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland.
ii. AGNES WISEMAN, b. 06 May 1841, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland; d. 04 Dec 1900, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland.
iii. MARGARET WISEMAN, b. 30 Oct 1842, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland.
iv. BARBARA WISEMAN, b. 05 Aug 1843, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland; d. 25 Jan 1919, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland.
v. WILLIAM WISEMAN, b. 30 Sep 1845, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland; d. 04 Mar 1920, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland.
vi. JOHN WISEMAN, b. 04 May 1852, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland.
vii. SARAH WISEMAN, b. 26 Nov 1854, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland.
viii. ALEXANDER WISEMAN, b. 04 Jul 1860, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland; d. 16 Mar 1933, Cairnblug, Inverallochy, Rathen, Aberdeen, Scotland.
ix. JAMES WISEMAN, b. Abt. 1863, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland; d. 24 Jan 1934, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland; m. BARBARA ANN ANDERSON, 28 Sep 1888, Church of Scotland,Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland; b. 30 Nov 1863, Crovie, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland; d. Abt. 1940, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland.

Are these your ancestors?

(Been).

chambers
09-05-2008, 1:06 PM
Hi Been,
John Wiseman and Agnes Gatt were my ggg Grandparents. Do you have any more info, thanks.
Best Regards,
Graham Wiseman

Been
10-05-2008, 4:58 PM
Hi Graham (...do you know if you are related to the Shetland Graham Wiseman?),

The info comes from a small part of WATT family information recently obtained, it would appear BARBARA WATT (not the ANN you mentioned?) married twice i.e. 1st to WILLIAM WISEMAN & 2nd to ALEXANDER WATT.
What I'd like to send you is too long to be allowed by the forum, do you have an alternative email address?

Been.

Been
11-05-2008, 9:18 PM
Hi again Graham,

I made further enquiries & was supplied the following:

Descendants of Alexander Wiseman


Generation No. 1

1. ALEXANDER1 WISEMAN He married ELSPET WATT.

More About ALEXANDER WISEMAN:
Occupation: Fisherman

Children of ALEXANDER WISEMAN and ELSPET WATT are:
i. JANET2 WISEMAN, b. 29 Aug 1779, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland.
ii. MARGARET WISEMAN, b. 17 Aug 1783, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland.
2. iii. WILLIAM WISEMAN, b. 11 Oct 1785, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland.
iv. JEAN WISEMAN, b. 30 Oct 1787, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland.


Generation No. 2

2. WILLIAM2 WISEMAN (ALEXANDER1) was born 11 Oct 1785 in Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland. He married ANNE WATT (Source: gro image-Scotlandspeople Site.) 01 Dec 1810 in Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland (Source: gro image-Scotlandspeople Site.), daughter of JOHN WATT and ANNE WEST. She was born 22 Apr 1785 in Crovie, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland, and died 13 Apr 1858 in Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland (Source: gro image-Scotlandspeople Site.).

Notes for WILLIAM WISEMAN:
This looks to be the right Wiseman, however was dead before the 1841 Census

More About WILLIAM WISEMAN:
Occupation: Fisherman

More About ANNE WATT:
Cause of Death: Decay of Nature

More About WILLIAM WISEMAN and ANNE WATT:
Marriage: 01 Dec 1810, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland (Source: gro image-Scotlandspeople Site.)

Children of WILLIAM WISEMAN and ANNE WATT are:
3. i. JOHN3 WISEMAN, b. Abt. 1812, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland; d. 17 Apr 1885, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland.
4. ii. ANN WISEMAN, b. 01 Mar 1814, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland; d. 27 Feb 1870, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland.
5. iii. BARBARA WISEMAN, b. 08 Mar 1816, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland; d. 17 Apr 1891, Crovie, Gamie, Banff, Scotland.
iv. WILLIAM WISEMAN (Source: gro image-Scotlandspeople Site.), b. 12 Jun 1818, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland.
v. ELIZABETH WISEMAN (Source: gro image-Scotlandspeople Site.), b. 06 May 1820, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland.
6. vi. WILLIAM WISEMAN, b. 15 Sep 1822, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland; d. 08 Aug 1891, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland.
7. vii. MARGARET WISEMAN, b. Abt. 1824, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland; d. 23 Nov 1885, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland.
8. viii. ALEXANDER WISEMAN, b. 19 Mar 1827, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland; d. 27 Dec 1902, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland.


Generation No. 3

3. JOHN3 WISEMAN (WILLIAM2, ALEXANDER1) was born Abt. 1812 in Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland, and died 17 Apr 1885 in Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland. He married AGNES GATT (Source: gro image-Scotlandspeople Site.) 05 May 1838 in Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland (Source: gro image-Scotlandspeople Site.), daughter of WILLIAM GATT and AGNES GATT. She was born 22 Dec 1820 in Pennan Village, Aberdour, Aberdeen, Scotland, and died 12 Dec 1898 in Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland.

More About JOHN WISEMAN:
Cause of Death: Decay of Nature

More About JOHN WISEMAN and AGNES GATT:
Marriage: 05 May 1838, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland (Source: gro image-Scotlandspeople Site.)

Children of JOHN WISEMAN and AGNES GATT are:
9. i. ANN4 WISEMAN, b. 10 Jul 1839, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland; d. 15 May 1917, Macduff, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland.
10. ii. AGNES WISEMAN, b. 06 May 1841, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland; d. 04 Dec 1900, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland.
iii. MARGARET WISEMAN, b. 30 Oct 1842, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland.
11. iv. BARBARA WISEMAN, b. 05 Aug 1843, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland; d. 25 Jan 1919, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland.
12. v. WILLIAM WISEMAN, b. 30 Sep 1845, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland; d. 04 Mar 1920, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland.
13. vi. JOHN WISEMAN, b. 04 May 1852, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland.
14. vii. SARAH WISEMAN, b. 26 Nov 1854, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland.
15. viii. ALEXANDER WISEMAN, b. 04 Jul 1860, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland; d. 16 Mar 1933, Cairnblug, Inverallochy, Rathen, Aberdeen, Scotland.
ix. JAMES WISEMAN, b. Abt. 1863, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland; d. 24 Jan 1934, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland; m. BARBARA ANN ANDERSON, 28 Sep 1888, Church of Scotland,Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland; b. 30 Nov 1863, Crovie, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland; d. Abt. 1940, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland.

More About JAMES WISEMAN:
Cause of Death: Cerebal Hemmorage
Occupation: Fisherman

More About JAMES WISEMAN and BARBARA ANDERSON:
Marriage: 28 Sep 1888, Church of Scotland,Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland

Kind Regards,

Been.

Been
12-05-2008, 3:00 PM
Hi Graham,
(Continued from previous post: i.e. the part that is your family side, altogether it was too large to post on the forum, the information is of course much bigger)

15. ALEXANDER4 WISEMAN (JOHN3, WILLIAM2, ALEXANDER1) was born 04 Jul 1860 in Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland, and died 16 Mar 1933 in Cairnblug, Inverallochy, Rathen, Aberdeen, Scotland. He married ELIZABETH MASSON 18 Sep 1885 in Church of Scotland, Gardentown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland, daughter of JAMES MASSON and HELEN BUCHAN. She was born 07 Mar 1863 in Inverallochy, Rathen, Aberdeen, Scotland, and died 22 Aug 1951 in Aberdeen, Scotland.

More About ALEXANDER WISEMAN:
Cause of Death: Cerbebal Hemorage
Occupation: Fisherman

More About ELIZABETH MASSON:
Date born 2: 07 Mar 1863
Cause of Death: Decay of Nature

More About ALEXANDER WISEMAN and ELIZABETH MASSON:
Marriage: 18 Sep 1885, Church of Scotland, Gardentown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland

Children of ALEXANDER WISEMAN and ELIZABETH MASSON are:
i. ELIZABETH MASSON5 WISEMAN (Source: gro image-Scotlandspeople Site.), b. 04 Jul 1886, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland (Source: gro image-Scotlandspeople Site.); m. ALEXANDER HEPBURN (Source: gro image-Scotlandspeople Site.), 17 Dec 1909, Church of Scotland, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland (Source: gro image-Scotlandspeople Site.); b. 20 Jun 1886, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland (Source: gro image-Scotlandspeople Site.).

More About ELIZABETH MASSON WISEMAN:
Date born 2: Abt. 1886

More About ALEXANDER HEPBURN and ELIZABETH WISEMAN:
Marriage: 17 Dec 1909, Church of Scotland, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland (Source: gro image-Scotlandspeople Site.)

ii. ALEXANDER WISEMAN (Source: gro image-Scotlandspeople Site.), b. 11 Jul 1890, Gardenstown, Gamrie, banff, Scotland (Source: gro image-Scotlandspeople Site.).
iii. ANNIE WEST WISEMAN, b. 22 May 1894, Gardenstown, Gamrie, banff, Scotland.
iv. HELEN WISEMAN, b. 25 Dec 1897, Gardenstown, Gamrie, banff, Scotland.
v. WILLIAM JOHN WISEMAN, b. 25 Dec 1901, Gardenstown, Gamrie, Banff, Scotland.

Hope the info can help, many kind regards,

Been.

ikciv5001
29-07-2008, 9:08 AM
Hi Brian,

Was George Wiseman born on 25 Sep 1813?

Vicki

Been
10-02-2009, 3:06 PM
Hi,
I've finally tracked down the George Wiseman you speak off, he was b. 26/9/1813 d. 19/4/1889 (age 63).
George married twice, first to Robina Craik who died 17/8/1855, Margaret Duncan was his second wife b. abt 1830 d. 20/8/1912 (age 80).
If you are from the James Wiseman side, he was b. 9/2/1857 m. Margaret Elrick around 1895?
One side of my fathers family comes from George Wiseman's sister Ann Wiseman m. James Watt (Tee-name Dutchie).
Kind regards,
Been.

olliepolly
21-02-2009, 1:17 PM
Hi, I am researching my family tree and have traced my ancestors back to Gardenstown (formerly known as Gamrie) in Banffshire, Scotland. My tree is full of West's, Watt's and Wiseman's, and some Wilson's, Sutherland's and Geddes. I would love to hear from anyone who may have links or information on these names in Gardenstown or Banffshire in general. Bit vague and a bit of a long shot I know, but I can give plenty more info to anyone who gets in touch. Thanks alot, Jo.

Hi I believe I may be part of your lot.
My family on my dad's side are all from crovie. If you have any info regarding Barbara Gatt's parents that would be great.
Barbara Gatt 1850-1929 married to James Watt 1851-1948,

Barbara's parents were James Gatt 1821-Jane Mckay 1824. (this is the line I'm tring to find)
thank you
olliepolly
x

olliepolly
21-02-2009, 4:42 PM
I have lots of ancestors in crovie banff, If I can help anyone feel free to ask.
olliepolly
x

Been
27-02-2009, 10:26 PM
Hello olliepolly
My information copied from another has some detail on George Wiseman (age 63?) not quite correct but I can find no reason to disbelieve the remainder.
I spent some more time looking at the bigger picture especially to do with your Barbara Gatt b.1 Apr 1850 m. (11 Dec 1875) James Watt b.16 Oct 1851 & could trace that Watt side back to John Watt m. Annie (Ann) Watt but never got any further back than James Gatt m. Jane McKay on the other side...
However another two found attached to that Gatt family were:-
(1) John Gatt b.19 Sep 1852 m. (abt 1875) Mary Elizabeth Wiseman b.23 Oct 1854.
(2) Alexander Gatt b.13 Nov 1854 m. (29 Sep 1887) Margaret Jean Gatt b.27 Sep 1857.
Any help?
Been.

olliepolly
27-02-2009, 10:40 PM
Thank You I need all the help I can get with the watts, at the moment i have 171 watts in my tree !!very confusing!! since they are all named after their fathers and mothers so all have same names!!....I have got stuck at the same point James gatt and jane mckay.

Not sure if i have them all correct. think i may take them all off and put them
on again.

I cant seem to get anywhere with the other lot on my mums side of the family from lancashire.
olliepolly
x

Been
28-02-2009, 2:42 PM
Just some Watt findings 'olliepolly' to see if they agree with your own or if you can supply any additions?

John Watt b.13 Dec 1741 m. Annie (Ann) Watt b.abt 1737 d.20 Sep 1824

(Son) William Watt b.1 Dec 1762 d.11 Dec 1842 m. (1 Jan 1790) Elspet Wiseman b.3 Sep 1770 d.12 Feb 1848 (parents James Wiseman m. Jean Wiseman)

(Grandson) Alexander Watt b.29 Jun 1811 d.19 Sep 1879 m. (2 Mar 1837) Helen Watt b.15 Nov 1812 d.6 Mar 1895 (parents John Watt m. Helen Craik)

(Great-grandson) James Watt b.16 Oct 1851 d.abt 1930 m. (11 Dec 1875) Barbara Gatt b.1 Apr 1850 d.7 Aug 1929 (parents James Gatt m. Jane McKay)

Been

olliepolly
28-02-2009, 2:47 PM
Hi
these look like they are same as mine, are these also your rellies can I ask ?
olliepolly
x

olliepolly
28-02-2009, 4:43 PM
Hi again :)

James Watt 1851-1948 and Barbara Gatt 1850-1929 had a daughter Mary Ann Gatt Watt 1891-1932 who married George William Watt 1891-1943. Mary and George were my Grandparents. I have all the names of James and Barbara's children if you are interested in them.

olliepolly
x

olliepolly
28-02-2009, 5:21 PM
quote
I spent some more time looking at the bigger picture especially to do with your Barbara Gatt b.1 Apr 1850 m. (11 Dec 1875) James Watt b.16 Oct 1851 & could trace that Watt side back to John Watt m. Annie (Ann) Watt but never got any further back than James Gatt m. Jane McKay on the other side...
However another two found attached to that Gatt family were:-
(1) John Gatt b.19 Sep 1852 m. (abt 1875) Mary Elizabeth Wiseman b.23 Oct 1854.
(2) Alexander Gatt b.13 Nov 1854 m. (29 Sep 1887) Margaret Jean Gatt b.27 Sep 1857.
Any help?
Been.[/QUOTE]


sorry, which part of the family do John and Alexander Gatt come from i.e. are they James Gatt and Jane Mckay's children?? if so I have other children to add to that. ?? sorry to bombard you with questions but when I get information I have to get it sorted in my head properly.
olliepolly
x

x

Been
01-03-2009, 12:20 PM
Well olliepolly to try & answer some of your questions:
(1)
Your WATT ancestors are not directly mine but with so many connections (i.e. most of Gamrie appears to be related one way or another...) here are a couple of ours that appear close:-

Brothers:
WILLIAM WATT b.1 Dec 1762 (your line) JAMES WATT b.14 Dec 1767 (my line)

Brother & sister (John & Barbara):
HELEN WATT b.15 Nov 1812 d.6 Mar 1895 (your line)
Parents JOHN WATT b.23 Apr 1778 m. HELEN CRAIK b.abt 1779

JOHN WATT b.23 Apr 1778 (your line) BARBARA WATT b.27 Aug 1787 (mine line)

I also have (to name a few...) WISEMAN, GATT, RITCHIE, OGILVIE, KINNAIRD, ANDERSON, HEPBURN, WILSON within my branches, all from Gamrie.

(2)
James and Barbara's children (James Watt 1851-1948 and Barbara Gatt 1850-1929) - yes, I would be interested in that information.
May I ask what WATT line did your grandfather George William Watt 1891-1943 come from?

(3)
John and Alexander Gatt do indeed show up as James Gatt and Jane Mckay's children.

Been.

olliepolly
01-03-2009, 12:23 PM
Hi:)
If you send me your email i will send you invite for family tree on tribal pages.
which is correct to the best of my knowledge. I also have wiseman, gatt ritchie ogilive hepburn in mine.
Olliepolly
x

isabeldunbar
06-09-2010, 7:33 AM
My Grandmotheror Helen Wiseman and she was from Gradenstown. She Married William Dunbar and came to the US. She had a brother Alex Wiseman. I wonder if their is any connection. I am named after my Grandmother my middle name is Helen. I know my older brothers use to go to Scotland with my Gradparents when they were young. I do have some family pics of Helen and William and my Great gGrand parents but only have a first name of my Great Grandmother of Mary Jane. I would be more than happy to copy the pics if there is a family conection if you would like them. Iam also looking for info on the family name of Cowe.

isabeldunbar
06-09-2010, 8:05 AM
I forgot to mention that either my uncle or my Grandfather was in th Royal Navy and I may have a pic of Alex wiseman if it is the same one. If there is a way to post pics maybe it would help I think there wer 2 brothers Alex and one other.

isabeldunbar
06-09-2010, 4:38 PM
Sorry just spoke to my mother who has all the info. the Helen wisman that was my Grand Mother was a twinwhose name was David. Her other brother was mnamed William. The Alex in my family was a Dunbar. However there wasa an Ann Watt in the family and also a Barbara. I may be able to get dates. If anyone has any info I would appreciate it. Isabel

isabeldunbar
06-09-2010, 5:31 PM
Just spoke to her again and this time she had the book of family history in front of her.So here is what I have:
John Wiseman m. Barbara Alexander not sure on date.
Children:
Isabella (1/7/1950 died) m. William Watts
William m. Annie Watts ( 8/290/1960d.)
David (b. 4/12/1893 d. 4/10 1970) m. Betsy Ritchie. David was Helen's Twin
Helen (b. 4/12/1893 d. 5/16/1974) m. William Dunbar- My Grandparents. William came to the US in 1923 and Helen in 1928.
Annie or Anna Wiseman (d.6/11/1976) m John Wiseman from another line.
Other info:
Alexander Wiseman brother of John m. Helen Alexander sister of Barbara no dates
had a daughter Barabra Helen who m. James Cowe who went by Sannie or Sanny
Sanny was swept off Fishing boat in 1965 durring a hurricane and drown.
info of interest:
John Wiseman was a lay preacher of the Brethern Church in Gamery.
other family not sure who they are these may be the children of Annie:
Elizabeth d. 1972
John d.1974
Barbara Helen ????
James never married lived in Fraserburgh no dates.
Isabel

Been
07-09-2010, 9:23 AM
Hi Isabel (& welcome to the forum),

I don't know much about your family but decided to look and see if I had any useful information to offer you?

The following was taken from the 1891 Gardenstown Census:

36/
John Wiseman (m.23/10/1882) (Fish.) 32 H (b.13/3/1858)(d.1/1/1949 A. 90)
(F. William Wiseman. M. Jessie Watt)
Barbara Wiseman (m/s Alexander) 30 W (b.11/7/1860)(d.21/9/1901 A. 41)
(F. John Alexander. M. Ann Nicol.)
Isabella (Scholar) 11 D (b.1880)(Mar. William Watt 1901)
William " 9 S (b.1881)(Mar. 1st. Helen Murray 1903.
Mar. 2nd. Ann Watt 1919)
Anne Nicol Wiseman 3 D (b.1887)(Mar. John Wiseman 1908)

Kind regards,
Been.

isabeldunbar
08-09-2010, 10:33 PM
Thank you so much. Now comes the fun part and try to find where these people fit in to the timeline. Any info that I get is more than I had. I would love to have the link and website that you think would help. I don't know if I should get ahold of the church in Gardenstown and see what they have. It is hard being in another part of the world and not able to visit. I hope someday to get to Scotland and see for myself where my family came from but until then I will do what I can with email and pics. I have just started and not sure where to go. I know Family is a good place to start but I do not have any that has family history. You are all so kind to help me with my search.

jacko76
08-12-2010, 3:10 PM
I wonder if anywhere in your research you have come across a Margaret Wood Wiseman who married William Gatt. I believe she was born in 1882 in Gamrie. She was my great grandmother but I don't know anything about her. I believe she died quite young.

Been
11-12-2010, 1:31 PM
I wonder if anywhere in your research you have come across a Margaret Wood Wiseman who married William Gatt. I believe she was born in 1882 in Gamrie. She was my great grandmother but I don't know anything about her. I believe she died quite young.

Hello jacko76 & welcome to the forum.
Probably like so many others I couldn't quite place your ancestors but I have never stopped looking since you posted...
...so if you haven't seen this (link) before you may just find it a little interesting?

www.
rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,354438.0.html

If you can't get into this via the above link, please sent me an email contact address & I'll see if it can work sending it that way?

All the best & good luck!

Been.

Been
11-12-2010, 3:37 PM
You may also like to look at this site but I'll add the same comment if you can't access the link i.e. please send an email contact addess...

http://
bayanne.info/Shetland/getperson.php?personID=I87065&tree=bayanne_1

Been.

Shea
15-01-2011, 11:43 AM
Hello Jo
I have a Joseph Wiseman in my family. He was a distillery maltman from Clochan, by Enzie (just outside Buckie). Married Isabella Lamb Morison 26/5/1894.

lnrwlsn
20-02-2011, 12:24 AM
Your tree seems to cross with my tree and I, too, am looking for clues.
My 5th great grandfather, George Wilson of Gamrie, married Mary Watt of Gamrie. They had 5 children: Barbara, b. 1742; James, b. 1744; William, b. 1747; John, my 4th great grandfather, b. 1754; George, b. 1753.
John Wilson married Isabel Paterson of Down. Together they had 3 children: Alexander, b. 1781; Walter, my 3rd great grandfather, b. 1782; and John, b. 1784.
Walter Wilson married Isabella Anderson. They lived for a time in Banff and for a time in Gamrie. They had 7 children: Alexander, b. 1820 (he became a baker); John, b. 1882; William, my 2nd great grandfather, b. 1823; Margaret, b. 1825; Elizabeth, b. 1826; Lillia, b. 1828; Aiskill, b. 1830.
William Wilson married Sarah King. They moved to Aberdeen. He was a shoemaker with a shop under the Broadstreet clock in Aberdeen. They had 5 children: William, my great grandfather, b. 1848; Isabella, b. 1850; George, b. 1852; James, b. 1853; John, b. 1854 or 1855.
William Wilson (1848-1908) emigrated to Canada and then to the USA. He married Mary Louise Olive Duschene. It seems they only had 1 child who lived: William G. Wilson (1878-1929), my grandfather.
William G. Wilson married Almira LaSalle and they had 11 children: Cecile, b. 1906; William A., b. 1907; Walter, b. 1909; Mary Alice, b. 1910; Wallace, b. 1912; Willis, b. 1913; Mary Louise, b. 1918; Woodrow, b. 1916; Rosanna, b. 1920; Olive, b. 1921; Willard, my dad, b. 1927. Both my great grandfather and my grandfather are buried in Escanaba, Michigan.
Willard Wilson (1927-1998) married Leonora LaChapelle. They had 5 children: Deborah, me, b. 1949; Craig, b. 1951; Mark, b. 1953; Joel, b. 1954; Albert, born 1968. As you see, we are the only generation not named after our ancestors!
If you can tell me anything about Mary Watt or any of my Wilson ancestors of Scotland, I would be thrilled!
Thanks so much. Debbie

nikandjb
07-10-2012, 2:01 PM
Hello

I Have information on James Gatt who married Jane McKay, his parents were James Gatt (b. 1795 Pennan) and Barbara Taylor (on whom I have no further information). They had 5 children Christian(f)born 1819, James born 1821, Isabella born 1823 Jane and Barbara born1826(who is my g-g-g grandmother).

Been
08-10-2012, 12:52 PM
Hello nikandjb

From research it would appear that 'Auld Gattie' i.e. James Gatt (b. 1795 Pennan) married (1) Barbara Taylor (2) Helen Pirie but do you have any further information on their lines?
The Isabella Gatt I found was a daughter of James Gatt & Helen Pirie being born 13/7/1851 and she married Alexander Watt (b. 21/9/1847)?
Another two possible siblings to Isabella Gatt are Margaret Gatt (b. abt 1855 who married 1873 Peter Gatt b. abt 1845) and Ann Gatt b. abt 1843 d. abt 1910 in Orkney, who married James Milne?
Would I also be correct saying that your Barbara Gatt (b. 1826) married John Gatt (b. abt 1827), his parents being William Gatt married Agnes Gatt?

Regards

nikandjb
08-10-2012, 8:39 PM
Hi Been

Yes Barbara Gatt (b.1826) married her cousin John Gatt (b.1828), as Agnes was James' (who married Barbara Taylor) sister. Thanks for the further information re. Helen Pirie :)

Been
09-10-2012, 8:12 AM
Hello nikandjb

A little more information (...but you perhaps have this already?) is that: -

James Gatt (or Gaat etc born abt 1732) married Jane Gatt (or Gaat etc born abt 1735) is as far back as available information appears to allow (they would be Auld Gattie's etc Grandparents)?
Another sister to Agnes & James (Auld Gattie) is Christian b. 28/12/1799 d. 14/01/1873 and she also married her cousin Alexander Gatt b. 09/07/1794 d. 05/04/1876 - they are one of the many lines our family come from.

Kind regards

nikandjb
10-10-2012, 9:02 PM
thanks,Been

I'm not really very expert at this,(only been doing it a month) so are you able to say who are Alexander Gatt's parents?
Oh and I love James Gatt's moniker(Auld Gattie) :)

One whom I'm really wanting to know more about is James Taylor Gatt b.1854 who married Elishia Watt b.1854 if you know anything I'd be really grateful.

many thanks

Been
11-10-2012, 1:02 AM
Hello nikandjb

Alexander Gatt's parents were James Gatt b. 05/08/1769 m. Ann West b. 17/05/1768.
James Gatt (b. 1769) being a sibling to William Gatt (b. 1770), I however have never discovered if Ann West (b. 1768) was also a sibling to William's wife Jane West, only that it wasn't uncommon e.g. for two brothers of one family to marry two sisters of another?

James Taylor Gatt b. 15/11/1854 son of John Gatt & Barbara Gatt married Elishea or Alicia (as it sometimes appears) West b. 27/08/1858 daughter of George West m. Elishea Gordon Bruce.
I only have one son for James Taylor Gatt & Elishea West, he was called Magnus Taylor Gatt b. abt 1888 in Aberdour and he m. 11/04/1913 Maggie Jessie Scott b. 09/06/1887 daughter of James Scott & Mary Jean or Jane Nicol (daughter of John Nicol m. Jean Downie, one side of our family has relationship with this Nicol line).
Incidentally Maggie Jessie Scott's brother John Scott b. 27/03/1882 d. 01/09/1961 is the grandfather of my next door neighbour but I'm unsure just how much genealogy he knows about his Scott family?
Another finding was that Magus Taylor Gatt & Maggie Jessie Scott's daughter Gowan Gatt b. 19/11/1919 also married her cousin Major William Duncan Scott b. 07/08/1918 son of John Scott b. 27/03/1882 m. Wilhelmina Laurenson b. 31/03/1880.

Is any of this information of help to you?

Regards

nikandjb
11-10-2012, 10:06 PM
Hi Been


That's amazing,my grandfather, Walter Nicol Gatt (b. 6.6.1918-2.1945)is the son of Magnus Taylor Gatt and Maggie Jessie Scott, but as my dad was only 2 when he died I know nothing of his family.

I possibly have a Walter Taylor Gatt(b.1883) and a Matilda Gatt(b.1885) who are siblings of Magnus Taylor Gatt?

many thanks

GordonS
31-10-2012, 12:14 AM
Hello,
I am the Son of Gowan Gatt and Major William Duncan Scott,I last had contact with your father Walter in 60's he was in the RAF and I was in Gordon Highlanders.Most of the Gatt family have now passed on apart from Betty's son living in Rosehearty Aberdeenshire and myself living in Australia.There are also some of the girls of Bab's Stephens living in Fraserburgh bu I have no contact with them.If I can give you any information just ask and I will try to answer it

nikandjb
31-10-2012, 9:11 PM
Hi GordonS

Thank you for your information.

I've sent you a private message.

Nikandjb

Masson
09-09-2013, 7:29 AM
Hi, I am researching my family tree and have traced my ancestors back to Gardenstown (formerly known as Gamrie) in Banffshire, Scotland. My tree is full of West's, Watt's and Wiseman's, and some Wilson's, Sutherland's and Geddes. I would love to hear from anyone who may have links or information on these names in Gardenstown or Banffshire in general. Bit vague and a bit of a long shot I know, but I can give plenty more info to anyone who gets in touch. Thanks alot, Jo.
I too have just begun looking at my father's side family tree. I'm trying to find out about the names Masson, Blackhall and Wiseman from Gardenstown (Gamrie). Masson would probably be from Fraserburgh.
Any info that you have would be appreciated!
Thank you,
Masson

Eckett
11-09-2013, 10:25 AM
Hi, I am researching my family tree and have traced my ancestors back to Gardenstown (formerly known as Gamrie) in Banffshire, Scotland. My tree is full of West's, Watt's and Wiseman's, and some Wilson's, Sutherland's and Geddes. I would love to hear from anyone who may have links or information on these names in Gardenstown or Banffshire in general. Bit vague and a bit of a long shot I know, but I can give plenty more info to anyone who gets in touch. Thanks alot, Jo.

Hello
I've Wisemans from Banffshire in my family too. Joseph (mid 1800s) Catherine (mid 1700s).

Been
15-09-2013, 6:30 PM
I too have just begun looking at my father's side family tree. I'm trying to find out about the names Masson, Blackhall and Wiseman from Gardenstown (Gamrie). Masson would probably be from Fraserburgh.
Any info that you have would be appreciated!
Thank you,
Masson

Hi 'Masson' & welcome to the forum!
I see from your thank you, that you may well have obtained information already but just wondered if the following Blackhall's that I've connected into other Watt, Wiseman, Nicol etc information obtained, would be of any interest?

WILLIAM BLACKHAL b. 13/10/1856 d. 01/02/1933
MARRIED 15 JUNE 1876 GAMRIE.
CHRISTINA WATT b. 02/05/1853 d. 16/03/1936 (DIED 156 HIGH STREET, GARDENSTOWN)

PARENTS:
WILLIAM BLACKHALL m. 04 February 1857 The Manse, Fraserburgh, Aberdeenshire, b. abt. 1837, d. aft. 1895
JESSIE COULL b. abt. 1828, d. 19 January 1895, her parents WILLIAM COULL m. MARY SMITH.

Children:
1. Alexander Watt Blackhall, b. 01 November 1890, d. 28 October 1916
2. George Blackhall, b. 09 September 1895, d. 28 October 1916
3.+ John Fordyce Blackhall, b. 24 March 1880, d. 02 September 1940
4.+ Margaret Ann Blackhall, b. 03 October 1877, d. 24 January 1958
5.+ William Blackhall, b. 07 September 1888, d. 16 August 1959
6.+ Georgina Blackhall, b. 27 June 1882, d. 09 March 1915
7.+ Mary Smith Blackhall, b. 14 May 1886, d. 25 March 1973
8. Jessie Blackhall, b. 21 October 1876, d. 20 November 1876
9. Christina Watt Blackhall, b. 08 June 1893, d. 09 May 1894

The above William born 1888 Family:
Marriage 1 : Jeanie Ann West m. 13 December 1912 Gardenstown, Banff, b. 17 October 1892, d. 31 December 1953 •Father: William West •Mother: Helen Watt
1.+ John Blackhall, b. 16 September 1913, d. 02 July 1974
2.+ Alexander George Blackhall, b. 22 January 1917, d. 02 June 1993
3.+ William West Blackhall, b. 21 December 1918, d. abt. 1999
4.+ Jeanie Ann Blackhall, b. 20 April 1921, d. 14 April 1998
5. James Hendry Blackhall, b. 18 December 1922, d. 08 May 1993
6.+ Norman Blackhall, b. 03 February 1925, d. 19 June 1974
7.+ Mary Blackhall, b. 22 November 1928, d. 24 April 1984
8.+ Forbes West Blackhall, b. 01 June 1930
9.+ Christina Helen Blackhall, b. 05 September 1931
10.+ Andrew Duthie Blackhall, b. 05 March 1935
11. Kenneth Blackhall, b. 05 March 1935, d. 07 March 1935
12.+ Margaret Ann Blackhall, b. 29 March 1936

Been

Masson
16-09-2013, 7:34 AM
I too have just begun looking at my father's side family tree. I'm trying to find out about the names Masson, Blackhall and Wiseman from Gardenstown (Gamrie). Masson would probably be from Fraserburgh.
Any info that you have would be appreciated!
Thank you,
Masson

Thank you Been!
I do have some info but I really have just started and haven't researched too far back yet. My father, William, was the son of Agnes Blackhall Masson (married to James Masson of Fraserburgh). Agnes was the daughter of Mary Blackhall who lived on High Street in Gardenstown (Gamrie). Mary Blackhall's fiancÚ and brothers perished in a storm on a fishing boat around 1902 or 03. I am looking for her fiancÚ's name because she never married him and Blackhall was her maiden name. My grandmother's (Agnes) middle name was Wiseman so I am thinking that maybe my great grandmother's fiancÚ's last name was Wiseman. Could my great grandmother be Mary Smith Blackhall? I will have to keep looking. But thank you for the lineage list!!
Masson

Been
18-09-2013, 9:42 PM
Thank you Been!
I do have some info but I really have just started and haven't researched too far back yet. My father, William, was the son of Agnes Blackhall Masson (married to James Masson of Fraserburgh). Agnes was the daughter of Mary Blackhall who lived on High Street in Gardenstown (Gamrie). Mary Blackhall's fiancÚ and brothers perished in a storm on a fishing boat around 1902 or 03. I am looking for her fiancÚ's name because she never married him and Blackhall was her maiden name. My grandmother's (Agnes) middle name was Wiseman so I am thinking that maybe my great grandmother's fiancÚ's last name was Wiseman. Could my great grandmother be Mary Smith Blackhall? I will have to keep looking. But thank you for the lineage list!!
Masson

OK Masson, it is confirmed that Mary Smith Blackhall is documented as Agnes Wiseman Blackhall's mother!
However the Wiseman part is a little more puzzling but you may wish to know (if you don't already?) that Georgina Blackhall i.e. Mary Smith Blackhall's sibling appears to have had a few relationships/including children and she also ended up with a marriage to a William Nicol.
William Nicol's mother was Helen Wiseman who is a daughter of James Wiseman m. Agnes Wiseman but they do appear to have different Wiseman lines?
One of Agnes Wiseman's siblings is Alexander Wiseman (known as 'Tansy's Alex') who married Elizabeth Masson (known as 'Grannie Libby').

Been
20-09-2013, 12:38 PM
Hello again Masson,
This 28th October 1916 information is perhaps something you'd be interested in:

Speedwell V, hired net drifter, driven aground and wrecked in St George's Channel
BLACKHALL, Alexander, Engineman, RNR, ES 2044
BLACKHALL, George, Deck Hand, RNR, DA 3985
BURNS, James P, Deck Hand, RNR, SD 3706
GEDDES, George, Ty/Skipper, RNR
GEDDES, George, Trimmer, RNR, TS 2065
HENDRY, James, 2nd Hand, RNR, SA 1158
THOMAS, James, Deck Hand, RNR, DA 8564
WATT, James, Deck Hand, RNR, DA 3986
WISEMAN, William, Cook, RNR, TC 313
YOUNG, William, Engineman, RNR, ES 2031

Regards,
Been.

chambers
23-09-2013, 10:56 AM
'Tansy's Alex') who married Elizabeth Masson (known as 'Grannie Libby'). were my Grand parents.



Thanks

chambers
23-09-2013, 11:20 AM
'Tansy's Alex') who married Elizabeth Masson (known as 'Grannie Libby'). were my Great Grand parents not Grand parents as formally mentioned.

Been
24-09-2013, 4:20 PM
Hi again chambers & masson,
('Tansy's Alex') Alexander Wiseman's parents as I previously mentioned are John Wiseman m. Agnes Gatt.
The William Wiseman that was cook onboard the Speedwell V lost (with all 10 of a crew) 28 October 1916, was the son of James Watt Wiseman m. Elizabeth Watt and James Watt Wiseman's father was William Wiseman (m. Jessie Watt) a sibling to your line's John Wiseman.
I also have many connections to these Gamrie families e.g. John & William's mother Anne Watt b. 1785 (m. William Wiseman) is a sibling to Barbara Watt b. 1787 from one of my lines.
In addition the Elizabeth Watt b. 1871 (mother of William Wiseman the Speedwell V's cook d.1916) is a grandchild of the same Barbara Watt b. 1787, her parents being William Watt m. Ann Lovie.

Regards,
Been.

Been
24-09-2013, 5:07 PM
(Many other wee connections, all related...) Another older sibling to Tansy's Alex was John Wiseman b. 4 May 1852, he married another Barbara Watt b. 25 Sep 1855 (parents James Watt m. Ann Wiseman). One of their sons John Wiseman b. abt 1882 in Gardenstown d. 21 Feb 1919.

Mate, MMR, HMT ‘Craigendarrock’.
HMHS China - she was mined in Scapa Flow in Aug 1918 with the loss of four lives.
The Commonwealth War Grave Commission Certificate for him reads:-
"In Memory of Mate J WISEMAN H.M.S. "Craigendarrah,", Mercantile Marine Reserve who died on 21 February 1919 Remembered with honour IRELAND (SHETLAND) CEMETERY Commemorated in perpetuity by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission"

Been
28-09-2013, 11:31 AM
Mary Smith Blackhall’s sibling William Blackhall m. Jeanie Ann West as mentioned in my earlier post. Jeanie Ann West's parents are William West m. Helen Watt and those families are connected to yet another WW1 fishing boat tragedy this time involving the PREMIER BF696.
Helen Watt's sibling Jamesina Watt married William West's sibling Alexander West & the following research was found online...
“A website called ”uboat.net" records that the Drifter "Premier" operated by Alexander Minty, Macduff was sunk on 7 January 1918 by U 91 commanded by Alfred von Glasenapp. He had commanded this U Boat from 17th September 1917 until 11 November 1918.
The Register of Death is recorded:
ALEXANDER WEST, fisherman, 1918 January 7th, at sea between Canna & Bracadale, usual residence: Harbour Street, Gardenstown, Gamrie Parish of Banffshire, male 52 years, father - William West, fisherman (deceased) Elspeth West (maiden name West).
Alexander West's son also an Alexander West who was another PREMIER crew member died early in life (1923) aged 39 yrs."
...Elspeth West's maiden name is actually WATT not WEST and all can again easily be fitted into the bigger genealogy Gamrie family picture.

BEACHBOUY
11-04-2014, 5:53 AM
Hi my fellow relative--I guess. My father was from Gamrie---and it's still called that by the way. At one time I was related to most of the inhabitants. Now rich English have been buying the old houses. Between 2 cemeteries you can find your relatives back to the 14th century. Another family name is Nicol. The real history of Watt dates back before 1000ad. Please get with me and I'll help you out. Ian Watt

BEACHBOUY
11-04-2014, 6:00 AM
I love Crovie, The town is atleast 1000 years old.

BEACHBOUY
11-04-2014, 6:06 AM
I remember your grandfather---he was my Uncle Willie--a railroad engineer.

BEACHBOUY
11-04-2014, 6:10 AM
Was Alex your father? Also Ann Watt was my grandmother from Gamirie.

BEACHBOUY
11-04-2014, 6:20 AM
The name Watt goes back almost to the beginning of surnames. There is a church built in 1006 that has plenty of Watt family. Some graves are so worn you can hardly read them.

Been
11-04-2014, 12:39 PM
Hi BEACHBOUY (Ian Watt?) & welcome to the forum!
I don't know what others thought about your posts but I really wasn't too clear on who you are trying to contact i.e. Willie = William WATT?
You also ask if Alex is 'ones' father, is that Alexander WATT & who's father do you refer to?
Kind regards
Been

JimR47
16-04-2014, 12:23 PM
Just found this post whilst searching on Blackhall, if anyone is interested i have a website at www.blackhall-genealogy.org.uk which may answer some of the questions raised. There is also a group on Facebook Blackhall Genealogy which is open to anyone with Blackhalls in their ancestry

Jim Reidford